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The Humble .22 Long Rifle

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posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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Now it's time for us all to pay homage to the most under-rated and affordable cartridge known to man - the humble .22 Long Rifle rimfire.

First, a little story about my discoveries regarding its penetration abilities. Up at the cabin one day, I was target shooting as I often do. I had two handguns with me - my Colt New Agent (.45 1911 compact) and my old Ruger Super Single Six. The .45 was loaded with military style FMJ round nose, the .22 with standard velocity lead round nose. The target was a Shoot-N-See plastered onto a gigantic hunk of oak, 2.5' around and about 3' thick. I had tipped it onto its side so I could have a flat surface to put the targets on.

After shooting some with the .45, I let fly with the .22 quite a bit. Then I switched back and forth for a while. The .45 made the stump jump, which is impressive as it weighed at least 150 pounds! The .22 of course did no such thing.

After I was all done, I became curious. I brought out the maul and the wedges and split the thing in half, right down the middle, and did a post-mortem.

The .45 rounds had all managed to penetrate about 2/3rds of the way into the hunk of wood. Some went a bit farther than that, but that was the extent of the damage.

Many of the .22's had penetrated most of the way to the back of the stump. Many more had exited the wood, and were nowhere to be found! Some of the smaller trees behind the log had holes going clear through them, .22 caliber holes. Measuring the .22 bullets I found in the stump showed that they had lost a lot of diameter, being about .18-20 of an inch across when they came to rest.

Bear in mind, this was from a revolver with a 6" barrel - the .22's had not the time to develop the velocity they would have, if they were fired from a rifle.

All in all a pretty impressive showing from our old friend, the .22, which got me thinking about stopping power. There are three basic ways that bullets stop an attacker - either by destroying a portion of the central nervous system, a blood organ like the heart, liver, or kidneys (or a major artery or vein) causing massive blood pressure drop and starving the CNS, or by massive trauma which disables the body or a major component thereof.

Then I got to thinking about rabbits. When I was a young lad my grandfather and I often hunted rabbits. He had not done this since he was a kid, in the late teens and early twenties of the previous century. He used a .22 Long Rifle of course, but a standard velocity cartridge loaded with lead round nosed ammo.

I always managed to bag a few rabbits under his guidance. Our first couple of trips out we ended up with rabbits that looked like they sat on an M-80. We're talking giant chunks of flesh the size of my fist (sometimes both fists balled together - like 1/5th of the rabbit) just evaporated! He remarked that his rabbits never suffered such a fate when he was a youngster. So we looked at the remaining factor - the ammo. It was high velocity, hollowpoint Remington High Speed. Kind of a forerunner to the super high velocity rounds we have now. They have bronze jackets, (doesn't appear to be a plating - I still have over half a box) and literally explode on impact. So, we started buying the normal velocity lead round nosed stuff, and the rabbits did not end up nearly so pulped, although occasionally there would be damage nearing what we always got with the hollowpoints. I think that happened when the bullet hit a bone, and decided to fly apart.

The point of this story is that the humble, much maligned (some people even call it a toy) .22 LR is nothing to be sneezed at. Just like a 9mm or a .45 ACP, if it finds its way into one of the vital zones, it will kill a man dead right quick, and I feel that the hollowpoints (which aren't really even that hollow, more like round nosed ammo with a tiny depression) would probably make their way through clothing with the hollow intact better than larger rounds might. I put my money where my mouth is, as my daily carry gun is the North American Arms Mini Magnum, loaded with a mix of round nose and hollow ammo. I often bring my .45 with me into the woods, and while traveling it always sits cocked and locked in the center console, but I don't even take the garbage out without my Mini.
edit on 26-1-2012 by HattoriHanzou because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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Mythbusters did an episode shooting various calibers into the water.
The most powerful bullets tended to not penetrate the water very well.
Tending to shatter on impact.

Could be a slow and steady wins the race type of scenario.

The lower speed of the bullet could be giving it more penetration since it doesn't fragment as much on impact.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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Just so I understand what I read,

The .22 round went through 3 FEET of Oak.....then through some tree's behind the target?!?!

If that's what your saying I will say that's nonsense. A .22 will not even penetrate 3 INCHES of OAK....sorry



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:17 PM
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A 22lr IMHO is one of the deadliest rounds out there not for its stopping power but for its slower penetrating speed. I shot a deer when I was younger with a 22lr it entered the rib cage area and exited just below the tail. It had ricochet off a rib bone and traveled trough the soft organs. I was amazed so I did some searching and found some coroner reports of 22lr gun shot victims and all of the ones that I could get my hands on the round entered one part of the victim and exited the body in a out of trajectory line or never passed fully through.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by mwood
Just so I understand what I read,

The .22 round went through 3 FEET of Oak.....then through some tree's behind the target?!?!

If that's what your saying I will say that's nonsense. A .22 will not even penetrate 3 INCHES of OAK....sorry


It most certainly will and it most certainly did. The .22 Long Rifle has excellent sectional density, and it was going with the grain to boot.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:42 PM
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Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

It most certainly will and it most certainly did. The .22 Long Rifle has excellent sectional density, and it was going with the grain to boot.


Yeah, I doubt that. Maybe through some once in a lifetime fluke you were sending .22's through all that oak but there's no way that's typical.

I've had plenty .22's ricochet off of particle board.

The Box 'O Truth doesnt have any examples of a .22 being capable of anywhere near the penetration you describe: theboxotruth.com...

I own at least a dozen .22 rifles and handguns. I routinely spend hours upon hours plinking at all sorts of miscellaneous objects and materials. There's no way one will sail through 3 feet of solid oak.

Hatcher's Notebook has tests of armor piercing .30-06 rounds fired at 50 feet only going 10 inches into oak boards. A .22lr will best that? Maybe if coated in unicorn blood.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by thisguyrighthere

Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

It most certainly will and it most certainly did. The .22 Long Rifle has excellent sectional density, and it was going with the grain to boot.


Yeah, I doubt that. Maybe through some once in a lifetime fluke you were sending .22's through all that oak but there's no way that's typical.

I've had plenty .22's ricochet off of particle board.

The Box 'O Truth doesnt have any examples of a .22 being capable of anywhere near the penetration you describe: theboxotruth.com...

I own at least a dozen .22 rifles and handguns. I routinely spend hours upon hours plinking at all sorts of miscellaneous objects and materials. There's no way one will sail through 3 feet of solid oak.

Hatcher's Notebook has tests of armor piercing .30-06 rounds fired at 50 feet only going 10 inches into oak boards. A .22lr will best that? Maybe if coated in unicorn blood.


Doubt it or not, it happened. It happened repeatedly. It's OK if you don't believe me, though - I don't believe Hatcher's Notebook or whatever it is regarding the .30-06 test.

I will admit that part of the reason for their penetration is because they were going with the grain, in the xylem, but there's no reason to call me a liar. I could return the favor and say I don't believe you've ever handled a weapon in your life, but that would be rude.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:54 PM
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Reply to post by HattoriHanzou
 


You don't have to believe me but you can't ignore physics.

Are you sure you were measuring insect burrowed tunnels?


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by HattoriHanzou
 


The humble .22 is probably the most accurate and most engineered cartridge in the world. If it went through 3 feet of oak, it was rotten wood.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Yep, and I'm sure that physics will teach you that the sectional density of a .22 Long Rifle is quite good indeed.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 06:09 PM
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22lr can kill you with no problem and in a TSHF would be a major problem.

Many deer have been taken by poachers using 22lr

The bullet can be tampered with causing them to expand to around 38 caliber on impact



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 06:14 PM
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Originally posted by HattoriHanzou
reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Yep, and I'm sure that physics will teach you that the sectional density of a .22 Long Rifle is quite good indeed.


Compared to what?


.22 Caliber (.222")

40 grain, SD = .116

.22 Caliber (.224")

45 grain, SD = .128
50 grain, SD = .142
55 grain, SD = .157


Yet your claims give it greaer penetrating power than:


.30 Caliber (.308")

110 grain, SD = .166
150 grain, SD = .226
165 grain, SD = .248
170 grain, SD = .256
180 grain, SD = .271
220 grain, SD = .331

.303 Caliber (.311-.312")

123 grain, SD = .183
150 grain, SD = .221
180 grain, SD = .265



Sectional Density is important because, all other variables being equal, a bullet with a higher Sectional Density will:

Lose less energy and speed in flight
Drop less on the way to the target
Penetrate more effectively into a target


So that .157 "penetrates more effectively" that than that .271 ?
edit on 26-1-2012 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 07:02 PM
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reply to post by mwood
 


Dude , a 22 from a rifle will penetrate steel and armor. caliber means nothing, it's all about velocity!

edit on 26-1-2012 by Nazsa because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:04 AM
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I shoot 10 shots all touching at 50m for a 1/4 inch group (marlin .22 rifle, factory 4x scope), doesnt matter if it penetrates 3 inches or 30 inches of oak. Either way yah slice it a well placed bulled to the eye or throat will ruin your day (even if its only .22 inches)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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I used to target shoot in my barn with just the concrete building block walls behind .
22l left a black mark. never even cracked a block. the kind with two square holes.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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Either way, 22LR is a valid bullet. The caliber doesn't matter. A well-trained shooter can be effective with nearly any caliber. Those people who rag on 22LR, I ask them to voluntarily get shot by one.

That being said, I prefer .45ACP. But that is preference. When SHTF happens to you, the best caliber/gun is the one you have on you at the time. Scenario, if you get attacked by a dedicated criminal and all you have on you is a Ruger 22, what would you do? Would you drop the 22 and look for a bigger caliber firearm? Or would you engage your attacker with what you have (but wish for a larger caliber)? Majority of firearm engagements last 1.5 to 3.5 seconds.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Here is a test and write up that someone did on the 22lr.

Lethality of the 22LR- Results!

Supposedly got 7 inch penetration in a turkey with 3 layers of clothes at 300 yards.
edit on 27-1-2012 by daskakik because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by ANNED
22lr can kill you with no problem and in a TSHF would be a major problem.

Many deer have been taken by poachers using 22lr

The bullet can be tampered with causing them to expand to around 38 caliber on impact


In southwestern PA and northern WV, the .22 feeds many rural families, It is relatively quiet, cheap, and available and good for deer, rabbits, groundhogs, squirrel, and pheasant. It doesn't destroy a lot of meat and is accurate enough for head shots. The deer eat crops and there are no natural predators to speak of except for coyotes[recent] and automobiles. If you own fields under cultivation, you can shoot deer in your crops after you phone in for permission but you have to give up the hide and horns. Most game wardens are smart enough to know who has to poach to feed their families and don't patrol those areas too hard. It is a live and let live situation and poached deer don't amount to much, anyway.
In India during British rule, a child with a .22 shot a sleeping Bengal tiger in the ribs. Fortunately, the tiger wasn't awakened by the shot and quietly bled to death in its sleep. As the FBI says, it is all about placement, penetration, and permanent wound channel.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 10:57 PM
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Originally posted by Nazsa
reply to post by mwood
 


Dude , a 22 from a rifle will penetrate steel and armor. caliber means nothing, it's all about velocity!

edit on 26-1-2012 by Nazsa because: (no reason given)


Define steel & armor.....

You talking sheet metal or 1/2" plate steel and what kind or armor?

I love the .22 round. it is one of the most useful rounds out there and always will be. I own 3 .22 handguns and 5 rifles. Some of the claims being made would have to be seen to be believed. I am NOT calling anyone a liar it's just your results are no where close to what I have experienced in 35 years years of shooting.



posted on Feb, 6 2012 @ 11:07 PM
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reply to post by daskakik
 


Again...... Would have to see that experiment to believe it.

1. He got penetration through 3 layers of clothing & 7" into the meat
2. He was shooting a .22 LR at 300 yards
3. He was shooting in a 30 MPH wind

At the very least I can say he is a hell of a lot better shot than I am for sure.

seems far fetched to me



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