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MY Experiences & Perspective From 50 Years of Studying the UFO Phenomena

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posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by Furbs
 


Uhhhhhhhhh

Christians revere and treat as holy the Penteteuch sp? and entire Old Testament as from God--the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob . . .

The ONE who called Enoch to Himself without dying a mortal death.

I don't see how it is that you get to define for us what we treat as God-breathed and worth revering as God's Word and/or worthy respect . . . as in the case of the Book of Enoch.

And in terms of this topic, the Book of Enoch has a lot to share that we find factual and important to consider.

Parochial turf claims may be quaint. I don't find them useful, practical or accurately fitting, personally.


The book of Enoch isn't part of the Old Testament, and not part of the teaching of churches outside of Ethiopia. What makes -you- believe that you know something, and have some special knowledge about the truth of the spirit of God, when Jesus himself never mentioned Enoch amongst his teachings..

And if Jesus didn't teach it.. can you really claim it as Christian?




posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:06 PM
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I don't want to get into the futile religious argument this thread has turned into, talk about derailment ...

But a simple observation I made many years ago explains imho, that I think the OP is onto something about UFOs being man-made tech.

That observation quite simply is:

If UFOs are extraterrestrial in origin, then why is it their development has coincided with materials developed throughout the industrial age?

I challenge any reader to test this for themselves. Its really very simple to do. Go to your favorite search engine and look for images of the earliest photographed UFOs you can find. Look at there shape, look at the materials they appear to be made of. Start at the 1950s, look at UFO's of the 1950s, get familiar with how they look. Now look at UFOs of the 1960s, the 1970s, the 80s and so on. Notice anything?

It is plainly obvious UFOs themselves have developed over a 60 year period. You mean to tell me an advanced civilization from a galaxy many of millions of light years away has made some amazing leaps in the last 60 or so years? Which just happens to coincide with mans development over the last 60 odd years?

Take a look at it from a different angle. Again go to your favorite search engine and look at images of AIRCRAFT of the 1940s. The humble airplane. Look at its shape, look at the materials used in its construction. Like before, jump forward in time with the images. The 60s, 70s, 80s and so on - notice anything about its development?

I know people want to believe in UFOs and aliens. Believing in "something" out there is a natural part of the human condition. I would love to believe we are not alone, but it is simply that, a belief.

If all those photographs of UFOs spotted are real, then to me at least, I see a correlation between mans development during the industrial age, and UFO development during the exact same period. And that in itself is enough to make one question the authenticity of their origin.

There are researchers who are convinced the Nazi's had much to do with the development of these flying craft.
There are researchers who are convinced the development of UFOs has coincided with designs and materials used over a recent time frame which brings into question there origin. Forget all the new age beliefs and the industry behind UFOs. The documentaries, the books, the lectures, the groups and so on. Look at the facts, the facts in photographs, just for a start.

I am not interested in religious argument. I often see the derailment of topics by certain members when a threads direction goes in a way that brings into question their beliefs. No one will change anyone's mind if they so choose to believe in something. But there are those here, and around the world who do question UFOs and there origin, who are not interested in belief systems, but look at the facts as they present themselves.

Take a trip down memory lane and look at the photographs of UFOs over the last 60 odd years. That alone should, at the very least, bring into question there development, and obviously, there origin.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:10 PM
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reply to post by MajorKarma
 


You're welcome,

I think. LOL.

Would you care to offer your perspective as to what you believe to be going on with the ETs/critters?

What do you guess/believe to be their agenda?

To what degree do you believe them to be cooperating with or in cahoots with or bossing the globalist elites?

What are your thoughts on the evil/good/benign/neutral

nature of the ET's/critters?

Thanks for your kind reply.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:25 PM
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reply to post by Furbs
 


The Christian believers as a whole have not considered Enoch to be Scripture.

However, Jude 1:14 mentions it.



Enoch, who lived in the seventh generation after Adam, prophesied about these people. He said, “Listen! The Lord is coming with countless thousands of his holy ones


And it is clear that Biblical personages respected Enoch and considered it to be edifying material.

Hebrews 11:5 mentions that by faith Enoch was taken up to Heaven without dying.



It was by faith that Enoch was taken up to heaven without dying—“he disappeared, because God took him.” For before he was taken up, he was known as a person who pleased God.


Some are convinced that the Book of Jude and the Book of 2nd Peter were nearly left out because of their specific quotes from the Book of Enoch.

It's been a while since I read about specifically which parts of the NT books were quoted from Enoch. I have in my fuzzy memory that it's a surprising number of verses.

Certainly the Jews would have an aversion to Enoch post Christ because . . . Enoch clearly speaks of Christ.

Prior to Christ, they revered Enoch a great deal.

Here's some interesting added stuff re the Book of Enoch:

www.logoschristian.org...

per James H. Charlesworth

. . . the most respected translators and commentators on the Book of Enoch:



"While the best scholars thought Ethiopic Enoch was a modern version of a lost Jewish document, it was not possible to disprove the lingering claims by Lucke (1832), Hofman (1852), Wiesse (1856), and Phillippe (1868) that a Christian scribe had composed the Book of Enoch. It was not until the second half of the twentieth century that this claim was decisively put to rest; again the proof came with another momentous discovery. Pre-Christian Aramaic fragments of I Enoch were recovered among the Dead Seas Scrolls; one of the fragments contains the passage quoted by Jude." Page 8.

. . .

It became obvious that Milik had not proved his position , as Fitzmyer pointed out as soon as The Book of Enoch had been published. Repeatedly the specialists on I Enoch have come out in favor of the Jewish nature and its first century C.E. origin, and probable pre-70 date. The list of specialists on I Enoch arguing for this position has become overwhelmingly impressive: Issac, Nickelsburg, Stone, Knibb, Anderson, Black, VanderKam, Greenfield and Sutter. The consensus communis is unparalleled in almost any other area of research; no specialists now argues that I Enoch 37-71 is a Christian and postdates the first century." Page 89.


I can appreciate that because the Book of Enoch clearly speaks about the fallen angels/ET's as well as about Christ . . . Jews and others could easily be hostile to its contribution to a discussion of the ET's as fallen angels.

However, imho, one is wise to follow the truth wherever it leads.

.
.

edit on 27/1/2012 by BO XIAN because: addition



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Stagea
 


I've read this perspective a number of times.

At first, I thought it had a lot of . . . possibility of having a useful point.

Mostly, I'm no longer so sure of that.

If one looks at medevil paintings that include UFO's their shapes are clearly on a par with the saucer shapes of our era. There doesn't appear to be much evolution at all.

In terms of the UFO's of the 1800's . . . I wonder if they weren't . . . clad . . . or shaped . . . deliberately by the 'ET's'

to fit-in more with the technology of that era.

There is, evidently, quite a capacity for the critters to cause the craft to

APPEAR in any number of ways.

Nevertheless, rather persistently, there have been a rather limited number of basic shapes whether one goes back several hundred to several thousand years to a hundred years or so.

Aboriginal art work depicts basically the same saucer and cigar shapes so common today.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN

IT's interesting how much of an un-upbeat avatar you chose.

Cheers. Zombies are awesome.


I can readily infer that Christians are not your favorite folks to relate to.

Interesting.

Favorite folks. hmm..some of my favorite folks are christian..but they aren't my favorite because of their religion.
Favorite folks, to me, are people that are well rounded people all around. I don't have to agree with someone 100% to be friends with them...hell, sometimes a good strong debate can make for good friends.

Now, in regards to how the picture applies to the ops..well, you go on about how the blind masses are all but satan worshippers, yet most people on bloody earth serve some sort of hebrew/Yahweh faith..

I did notice you didn't acknowledge the first post I made...thats fine though, ultimately the point was, how can you hold such a well studied view of something, then conclude the most absurd notion that goes against your study...you all but debunk deities of the past through the very few quotes you give, along with the links that paint a picture, and then you go the exact opposite way of your implications..

like me showing pictures of CIA agents making CG videos of osama bin laden, a secret hanger with the airplanes that hit the towers being manufactured, all this evidence to show a major coverup, and your conclusion being osama bin laden instructed some nutty terrorists to hit the building. Its like...why did you even bother researching if you decided to conclude right from the beginning that no matter what you read, you will ignore the implications and instead just believe the initial view.

I am frustrated with you because I am wondering if you are for some reason willfully refusing to accept your own research into the subject.
oh well, difference of opinion is what I will write this off as.

Note: I am not saying I fully accept the ancient aliens theory...just find it far more likely of a hypothesis than what you concluded based on your own linkings.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:38 PM
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reply to post by Stagea
 


only problem with your suggestion is that images of ufo's been around for centuries in paintings if not millennia...



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:47 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


If you'd be willing to lay out what you see as the 3 major contradictions between my research and my perspective,

I'll try and respond meaningfully.

Thanks for your kind reply. I applaud your capacity to be friends with those you disagree with. I value that as well.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:56 PM
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Can you explain the correlation between aircraft development and UFO development in photographs? I am not talking about art, and the interpretation thereof. I am talking about photographic evidence.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by Stagea
 


It SEEMS to me that a plausible hypothesis

might

be that the critters tailored their craft to SOMEWHAT match the evolving tech of each era.

I realize that there are those who insist that 100% OF ALL the craft are totally manmade in hightly secret black-ops enclaves etc. etc. etc.

I'm just not convinced.

I think the fallen angel involvement is much more likely and oddly, more plausible.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Thanks for having the courage to author such a thread, knowing the onslaught of abusive, impolite thugish posters who hate anything to do with God.

I too have been interested in UFOs, having observed a group of them in San Diego in 1964 while a member of the Marine Corps. I also observed a shiney disk in bright daylight in Marion, Indiana in 1966.

Since retiring about four years ago I have been researching UFOs. I have come to much the same conclusion as you. The touchpoint for me was the story of the Tower of Babel. I believe the tower was in fact a technological device which even God found threatening.

I follow the postulations and research of Dr Joseph P Farrell www.gizadeathstar.com I find his research extensive and honest, with a reluctance to make profound declarations about what is still unknown or unproven. I also have been greatly influenced by the book "Final Events" by Nick Redfern, whom I've corresponded with.

Just wanted to give a word of encouragement amongst all the barbs you are enduring.

God bless.




posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 11:59 PM
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reply to post by romanmel
 


Thanks greatly for your kind msg.

Your encouragement is much appreciated.

I'll check out the link and refs. Thx.

A question or 3 . . .

What has your growing awareness of the UFO realities changed about how you view:

--the world
--your relationship with God
--these END TIMES
--globalism, global government, politics
--technology
--your priorities

???

Thanks in advance. Am much honored by your kind and thoughtfully perceptive post.

May God bless you and yours in all the ways you most need.

May you have a blessed weekend.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 12:06 AM
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I did not read your whole article but, if you have been studying UFO phenomena for 50 years (scratches Head?) then, why haven't you or anyone else found concrete evidence yet?

Don't tell me your all waiting for the government to disclose the facts about UFO'S?

Doesn't anyone here realize that our fine government lies to us on a daily basis? If they said Aliens exist...would you believe them?

P.S.
I do believe there is life beyond Earth. Most likely more intelligent then the war mongering POS humans here.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 12:11 AM
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reply to post by AwakeningAmerica
 


The issue of whether such exist or not, was crossed by me decades ago.

1. My relative affirmed it.
2. My research of credible first hand observers, officials, military officers, pilots, etc. affirmed it.
3. My contacts with high quality researchers affirmed it. No, I don't think that all famous researchers are necessarily all high quality people nor high quality researchers. Many are. Some are not.
4. My reading of many 100's, if not thousands of personal narrative reports of their personal experiences.

So, for me--there is no issue as to whether they exist or not. I'd like to know when they are going to be forced onto the public stage overtly. . . . because I believe life will never be the same after that--in bad ways for at least 3.5-7 years after that. Tyranny will escalate.

Sadly.

It would be interesting to learn what they wanted from the folks they abducted and raped etc.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 12:12 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


To the OP, BO XIAN:

Thank you sir. Regardless of the subject being discussed, it's research geniuses like you that make ATS a truly valuable forum. Thank you again because researching and puting together information like that is, as far as i see it, a very altruistic action.

Sorry everyone else for the lack of contribution

I have lots to read now
edit on 28-1-2012 by Prokofiev because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 12:22 AM
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Originally posted by BO XIAN
reply to post by romanmel
 


A question or 3 . . .

What has your growing awareness of the UFO realities changed about how you view:

--the world
--your relationship with God
--these END TIMES
--globalism, global government, politics
--technology
--your priorities



I have found God to be less the spiritualized mumbo-jumbo that religion often feeds us, thus I am even more in awe of Him. The church is headed toward a time of Great Deception which will cause many millions of believers to accept a false Christ. The technologies available today are far beyond belief and can be used in the deception to come. It is my priority to warn as many as I can of these dangers that face Christians who are more focused on a rapture than on His mission.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 12:58 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Its the clues in our PRE-History, lets put all clues from around the world, in one good Volume, also the art work showing the truth through the artist eyes, things that are Pre-Roswell. everyone writes facts, opinion, and ideas-



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 03:49 AM
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reply to post by BO XIAN
 


Aliens are fallen angels, evil dominions. Provided technology to governments to make more evil and to control souls. Most of the UFO/Aliens expert researchers have come with the almost the same conclusions after years of research. Some observers such as me also have discovered that after many years. No wonder why they have many common symbols with Masonic orders. Good conclusion. The Lord have opened your eyes.



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 03:53 AM
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No disrespect meant, but these ramblings of god, ufos and conspiracies are ridiculous.
Seriously delusional. A fantasmagoria.
A student of sociology should study the whole thread, as well as maybe a psychologist with critical thinking skills intact.
As for the links?
Wow, not even a 5 year old child would take them seriously.
They are a link collection to the utter delusional.
They pses not one shred of evidence between them.
It is business.
A business to trap the gullible believers.
It seems to work.
As for clinical psychology, we now have proof, that psychology is indeed a SOFT science, that needs NO critical thinking skills at all.

edit on 28-1-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 28 2012 @ 04:12 AM
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reply to post by BBalazs
 


you are absolutely right! congrats!

but what do you think of the subject?
what do you know?
and what do you believe?



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