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Christians, Pagans, etc. Some questions if you don't mind.

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posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 01:48 PM
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Heya. Got some questions for you.

I ask, please don't carpet bomb quotes from the bible unless absolutely necessary or requested to back up the claim with actual supporting passages.

1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...aka, proper pronounciations and such, or can I simply refer to God as Odin and Jesus as Thor (fact...Gods name is not God, and Jesus is not jesus...just what we westerners call it...so, we already have made up names anyhow)
Explain why (or why not) it matters what name we place on the concepts

2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't

3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?

4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer? Why or why not?


ok, thats it. 4 simple questions that no doubt may stir a bit of debate amongst the different mindsets. Respect one another, but don't take that as do not challenge it.

I ask not because I want to become a better believer..just curious how the believers think about such non black/white questions




posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:05 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
Heya. Got some questions for you.

I ask, please don't carpet bomb quotes from the bible unless absolutely necessary or requested to back up the claim with actual supporting passages.

1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...aka, proper pronounciations and such, or can I simply refer to God as Odin and Jesus as Thor (fact...Gods name is not God, and Jesus is not jesus...just what we westerners call it...so, we already have made up names anyhow)
Explain why (or why not) it matters what name we place on the concepts

2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't

3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?

4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer? Why or why not?


ok, thats it. 4 simple questions that no doubt may stir a bit of debate amongst the different mindsets. Respect one another, but don't take that as do not challenge it.

I ask not because I want to become a better believer..just curious how the believers think about such non black/white questions


reply to post by SaturnFX
 


If you ask 100 pagans their opinion your going to get 140 different answers.

It is generally a solitary practise or small groups, no two hold the same opinions.

What I can give you is MY opinion, it does not reflect those of the hundreds of pagan relgions.

1) Absolutely. Different gods do different things and have differnt personalities. Go ahead and pray to the God of War by the wrong name, see how much fun life is after that.

There is no equivalent of Jesus. No you can't call him Odin and you would really piss of the Norse followers by even comparing the two. Odin is associated with war, battle and death. So no, no turning water into wine.

2) I think that whatever religion you follow, the ceremonies matter, lol. Or why would you believe in that religion?
Marriage is a seperate institution, that is up to the couple. The sabbaths are important, equinoxes are important.

3) Christian question, will abstain. Though I have my opionions about the greatest work of fiction.

4) I have no idea what you are asking.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 

Perspective from my relatively nonreligious standpoint...

1 I would assume a Supreme Being of whatever nature would see us for the imperfect beings we are and forgive us our error. Maybe it really should be read in Klingon which many of us don't know, just to give a modern slant. I believe Hebrew language can also be interpreted using some kind of number system, each letter having a different value but I forgot the name of it. Some people believe the Name of God contains arcane knowledge. Not my field though.

2 No idea on this one so I'll pass.

3 I guess different periods of history required a different approach and message in order to capture the people's interest, possibly.

4 Revelations are a subjective and personal experience that are hard to prove to others. It could be due to many things, drug contaminated food (St Anthony's Fire), deliberate ingestion of sacred substances to attain a higher level, a brain condition, a genuine experience or just someone trying to pull the collective leg.

Good luck. Interesting questions, not quite sure where it will lead but interesting questions.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
Heya. Got some questions for you.

I ask, please don't carpet bomb quotes from the bible unless absolutely necessary or requested to back up the claim with actual supporting passages.

1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...aka, proper pronounciations and such, or can I simply refer to God as Odin and Jesus as Thor (fact...Gods name is not God, and Jesus is not jesus...just what we westerners call it...so, we already have made up names anyhow)
Explain why (or why not) it matters what name we place on the concepts

2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't

3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?

4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer? Why or why not?


ok, thats it. 4 simple questions that no doubt may stir a bit of debate amongst the different mindsets. Respect one another, but don't take that as do not challenge it.

I ask not because I want to become a better believer..just curious how the believers think about such non black/white questions


1: Yes it matters. Would you like to be called something other than your name? I think this is just common sense. I can't speak as to the Norse beliefs but in Christianity and Judaisim alike the name of God is considered holy and reverent. The name of God has power so invoking God using His name is therefore invoking His power and authority. There are many names for God as he gave many names to His people and was likewise given many names.


2: In Genesis when God created the earth He rested from all his labors of creating the earth and He blessed the Sabbath day (the seventh day of the week aka Saturday) and made it holy. He then commanded the Children of Israel to keep the Sabbath day because it was a blessed day. Eucharist also known as Holy Communion or the Lords Supper was an instruction given by Jesus to his disciples. He gave them bread saying "This is my body" and he gave them wine saying "This is my blood which is shed for you do this in remembrance of me." Hence the Lords Supper is done to remember Christs sacrifice on the cross for the remission of sins. Marriage would take far too much time to explain and disect so I will leave that for a different time.

3: It is all the same deity really. In the OT Gods' name is both singular and plural. It's quite a conundrum really. You have the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit yet it is all the same God. In the OT and NT alike it shows us a balance when dealing with God. To give you an example in one Scripture it may say that God is vengeful God and yet in a different Scripture it says that God is Love. See my point? Some people might call this a contradiction but I call it Balance. Because God is God He is everything. He is both a God of War and Vengence while also being a God of Love and Forgiveness. See? Balance.

4: The Book of Revalations was a vision given unto John and because of that only John can understand it because it was John who was given the Revalation. I can't really answer definitively whether or not anyone with visions is as credible as John but I do know that God gives a measure unto every man and what he does with it is up to him. I suppose it depends on whether or not said visions are coming from a good source or not.

Hope I answered at least some of your questions. Four questions, Four answers.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
1) Absolutely. Different gods do different things and have differnt personalities. Go ahead and pray to the God of War by the wrong name, see how much fun life is after that.

There is no equivalent of Jesus. No you can't call him Odin and you would really piss of the Norse followers by even comparing the two. Odin is associated with war, battle and death. So no, no turning water into wine.

The Odin/Thor thing was just an example...lets say instead I said Dave and Fred. There...
Jesus was not Jesus, he was Emanuel or some such, its a point of contention.
God is Yeshuah also...
See, point is, we already have two completely random words to identify the entities...why does it matter we use one set of made up words over another...why not dave and fred, or god and jesus, or odin and thor, etc..

Wonder how many will get hung up on the nordic gods verses the overall point of the question
But cheers for the answer.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by nixie_nox
4) I have no idea what you are asking.


Oh, wanted to also address this

Revelations was a series of visions (basically channeled information). Why do they say that was all good and fine, but then scream out against other channelers and visionary seers (oracle of delphi for a historic example). What makes one guy holy and god ordained and the rest a bunch of people getting satanic information in the guise of deity authorized visions.

aka, why do the christians covet this specific psychic while cursing any others.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Thanks for asking these questions. I already had you pegged as a skeptic, so I was keeping an eye on your threads. I'll be interested in seeing what answers you get on this one...hopefully, it won't be a bunch of bs.

Unfortunately, being opposed to modern religion, I can't answer your questions. However, I will observe what answers are given.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by Starchild23
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Thanks for asking these questions. I already had you pegged as a skeptic, so I was keeping an eye on your threads. I'll be interested in seeing what answers you get on this one...hopefully, it won't be a bunch of bs.

Unfortunately, being opposed to modern religion, I can't answer your questions. However, I will observe what answers are given.


I am a skeptic, sure...everyone is to some degree..
For the relevance of this thread though, I am an agnostic atheist...modern religion to me is equal to ancient religion. I quite like learning about them all, the lore, the mythos, etc...its a fascinating academic venture that teaches one how cultures are formed around such mythos..but as far as personal belief..no. Frankly, all things being equal in my mind, I prefer the ancient greek pantheon moreso than the modern choices if I was forced to adopt a religion..if you have to do it, choose the most interesting one imo.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by nixie_nox
1) Absolutely. Different gods do different things and have differnt personalities. Go ahead and pray to the God of War by the wrong name, see how much fun life is after that.

There is no equivalent of Jesus. No you can't call him Odin and you would really piss of the Norse followers by even comparing the two. Odin is associated with war, battle and death. So no, no turning water into wine.

The Odin/Thor thing was just an example...lets say instead I said Dave and Fred. There...
Jesus was not Jesus, he was Emanuel or some such, its a point of contention.
God is Yeshuah also...
See, point is, we already have two completely random words to identify the entities...why does it matter we use one set of made up words over another...why not dave and fred, or god and jesus, or odin and thor, etc..

Wonder how many will get hung up on the nordic gods verses the overall point of the question
But cheers for the answer.


Jesus' hebrew/aramaic name was Yeshua or perhaps also Yehoshua ( 'He Saves' or 'Yahweh saves'). Psalms says that the Name of God is a "Tall and Mighty Tower." In this way the author of psalms is trying to convey to the reader the power and importance of Gods name. There are literally hundreds of Scriptures dealing with Gods name and it's inportance. That's how much the Jews revered Gods name. I think it's important because there are also Scriptures dealing with the placing of Gods name on our foreheads as a means of protection and a signifying that we belong to God. I have heard it said that in Scripture there are over a thousand names given for God. That one name just wasnt enough for the Jewish people. I think it is a testament to the Greatness of God. That's my opinion anyway.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by I Want To Believe

1: Yes it matters. Would you like to be called something other than your name? I think this is just common sense. I can't speak as to the Norse beliefs but in Christianity and Judaisim alike the name of God is considered holy and reverent. The name of God has power so invoking God using His name is therefore invoking His power and authority. There are many names for God as he gave many names to His people and was likewise given many names.

Sure, thats a valid point, but the term God is actually in reference to a pagan deity (research where the word came from for an eye opener). Basically, you are calling on Odin already when you use the literal word, God.
So, you say it matters, but you then use the name of a non-hebrew deity named Indra. (much invoked = God..which is the label of said deity)

You see...either it has meaning, which means anyone whom mentions the name God, is actually invoking the title of Indra, or names don't matter and you can call the deity Fred Flintstone, so long as your intent is on the deity of abraham, then its all good.




3: It is all the same deity really. In the OT Gods' name is both singular and plural. It's quite a conundrum really. You have the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit yet it is all the same God. In the OT and NT alike it shows us a balance when dealing with God. To give you an example in one Scripture it may say that God is vengeful God and yet in a different Scripture it says that God is Love. See my point? Some people might call this a contradiction but I call it Balance. Because God is God He is everything. He is both a God of War and Vengence while also being a God of Love and Forgiveness. See? Balance.


Not really.
I can see it as sort of a erm..family name or like a group. Jesus prayed to someone that was not him. this requires seperation, else he was nuts.
now, I understand how there can be 3 Smiths. Bob, Jane, and Mike...and the Smith name may be a good name, and all three are related, but each is a different being within the family.
Thats the closest I can come to logic when considering the reported actions of christ whom prayed outside of himself to something else.
I can also see how he says that he and his father are one(genetically at least shared blood).

Just my angle. The trinity never made sense to me, and not from lack of people explaining..I just can't leap over that illogical hurdle..so, I dismiss the debate as nonsense overall considering it requires a person to suspend logic and just believe it somehow works out into some sort of indistinguishable soup. I could be missing something here, but until its put sensibly and reasonably, then ya..its just some weird connection they made based on nothing



4: I suppose it depends on whether or not said visions are coming from a good source or not.

Sort of, but who judges what is good?
The bible is pretty clear that none are good, period. Which means no matter how wonderful the seer is and what they are saying, and where they say its coming from, its arguably either not good, or impossible to tell given our standing
this includes John and his visions.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by I Want To Believe
I have heard it said that in Scripture there are over a thousand names given for God.


-chews on that for awhile..considering all the names of the head deity of other religions..such as Odin, Zeus, Ra, etc..-



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...aka, proper pronounciations and such, or can I simply refer to God as Odin and Jesus as Thor (fact...Gods name is not God, and Jesus is not jesus...just what we westerners call it...so, we already have made up names anyhow)
Explain why (or why not) it matters what name we place on the concepts


The nature of god would have to be established first. If you are referring to the actual beings with power and personality, then the accuracy of their names are as important as the accuracy of our names.

If you are talking about the overarching "one true god" in most of our religions, I don't think the name matters one bit. How could it? If you are talking about an all-knowing omnipotent being, I can assure you that he/she/it knows when you are hailing.


Originally posted by SaturnFX
2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't


Religion-based ceremonies are only important to adherents to the faiths that practice them. Every religion has a practiced and traditional method for accomplishing an open state of spirituality. In a way, Catholic priests, Buddhist monks, etc are simply mainstream shamans.


Originally posted by SaturnFX
3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?


I'm not convinced that the two are related on a spiritual level. There was a religion very much like Christianity (Mithraism) that existed at the time of Judaism. The priests of Mithraism (Paul rumored to be among them) saw Jesus as a great opportunity to unite the two by putting forth Jesus as the guy who is the messiah of the Jewish folks.

I think the line between Satan and God in the old testament are sometimes hard to discern and, in Genesis, it's clear to me that there are multiple Jewish gods and not all of them are "good guys".


Originally posted by SaturnFX
4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer? Why or why not?


Visions should all be taken seriously. Visions are given to us by our intuitive nature which has a direct link to our shared spirituality/consciousness and sees time in a different fashion. This means that any vision has some sort of accuracy and truth to it but it may be hidden in distractions.

Some people train in this and should be given more credit just as in any other profession. Paul was an incredibly spiritual person who probably saw visions on a weekly basis so I doubt he was a novice. Seers, shamans, holy people, and certain psychologists are all examples of people who should be respected in this field.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by I Want To Believe

1: Yes it matters. Would you like to be called something other than your name? I think this is just common sense. I can't speak as to the Norse beliefs but in Christianity and Judaisim alike the name of God is considered holy and reverent. The name of God has power so invoking God using His name is therefore invoking His power and authority. There are many names for God as he gave many names to His people and was likewise given many names.

Sure, thats a valid point, but the term God is actually in reference to a pagan deity (research where the word came from for an eye opener). Basically, you are calling on Odin already when you use the literal word, God.
So, you say it matters, but you then use the name of a non-hebrew deity named Indra. (much invoked = God..which is the label of said deity)

You see...either it has meaning, which means anyone whom mentions the name God, is actually invoking the title of Indra, or names don't matter and you can call the deity Fred Flintstone, so long as your intent is on the deity of abraham, then its all good.




3: It is all the same deity really. In the OT Gods' name is both singular and plural. It's quite a conundrum really. You have the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit yet it is all the same God. In the OT and NT alike it shows us a balance when dealing with God. To give you an example in one Scripture it may say that God is vengeful God and yet in a different Scripture it says that God is Love. See my point? Some people might call this a contradiction but I call it Balance. Because God is God He is everything. He is both a God of War and Vengence while also being a God of Love and Forgiveness. See? Balance.


Not really.
I can see it as sort of a erm..family name or like a group. Jesus prayed to someone that was not him. this requires seperation, else he was nuts.
now, I understand how there can be 3 Smiths. Bob, Jane, and Mike...and the Smith name may be a good name, and all three are related, but each is a different being within the family.
Thats the closest I can come to logic when considering the reported actions of christ whom prayed outside of himself to something else.
I can also see how he says that he and his father are one(genetically at least shared blood).

Just my angle. The trinity never made sense to me, and not from lack of people explaining..I just can't leap over that illogical hurdle..so, I dismiss the debate as nonsense overall considering it requires a person to suspend logic and just believe it somehow works out into some sort of indistinguishable soup. I could be missing something here, but until its put sensibly and reasonably, then ya..its just some weird connection they made based on nothing



4: I suppose it depends on whether or not said visions are coming from a good source or not.

Sort of, but who judges what is good?
The bible is pretty clear that none are good, period. Which means no matter how wonderful the seer is and what they are saying, and where they say its coming from, its arguably either not good, or impossible to tell given our standing
this includes John and his visions.


Actually the name God is in reference to one of Gods names "Elohim". It literally means 'God' or "Almighty God'. You see, historically during the Isrealites captivity in Babylon the King of Babylon fearing the Isrealites and their God forbid the saying or writing of Gods name. Because of this the scribes began to write Gods name as YHWH or began to use His other names such as "Adonai" (Lord or Master) or of course the more famous "Elohim" which means 'God or Amighty God' instead of fully spelling it out fearing reprecussions from the babylonian King.

You can believe it or not but Gods name is both plural and singular. I'm not going to argue the semantics of whether or not Jesus was praying to himself but He is one of the three whatever that means.

I can't really answer that question. Either you have the gift or you dont but you dont have to be a Christian to receive visions. That much I do know.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...

No


2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't
None of them matter, if you are sincerely interested in connecting with the Divine.


3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?

Jesus was a kind, love-spreading soul who was born with an advanced soul. The OT deity was derived from an ancient explanation for disasters. (i.e. a flood meant the deity was angry. a drought meant the deity was angry. a war among celestial beings meant all the deities were angry at one another, and one demanded allegiance above the others)


4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer?

No.
Revelations is a compilation of punitive warnings of Dad showing up and dispensing either exoneration or punishment. It is meant to scare the bejeebers out of people to behave nicely to one another, or endure enternal punishment if they don't, because an invisible 'judge' is watching.


Why or why not?
Because anyone can claim to have 'visions' and 'divine warnings'. Anyone who claims such 'message' is using superstitionist tendencies to frighten others into being what they're supposed to be in the first place.


I ask not because I want to become a better believer..just curious how the believers think about such non black/white questions
So, are you really only addressing and questioning the 'Christian believers'?

Wow, I feel the flames of condemnation and abuse already......

But that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
It is very possible that the man called Jesus was born a pure and advanced soul who came here without having undergone the usual reincarnations and karma-accumulation of us 'regular' souls on the millennia-long journey to reunification with the Divine that is the source of us all....

just my blasphemous, heretical take on it.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 04:20 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Born and raised christian til a few years back so I am going to try to answer:

1) well if god is translated in your language as Odin then yes you can call god Odin.

2)You have to get baptized in Christ to go to heaven,the Eucaristy to have your sins cleaned up

3)Personally I doubt Yeshu'a was the son of the old testament god.I think he is the son of the other god.You know the one who actually care,the one who saved mankind from the flood,whose kimgdom is yet to come.....

4)Here is my take on the apocalypse.It is past event shown to a certain individual as set to repeat itself.so yeah you need divine guidance to be able to predict



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 




1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...aka, proper pronounciations and such, or can I simply refer to God as Odin and Jesus as Thor (fact...Gods name is not God, and Jesus is not jesus...just what we westerners call it...so, we already have made up names anyhow)
Explain why (or why not) it matters what name we place on the concepts


Taking the name of God in vain is taking on the name but not the character to show evidence by example. A Biblical name is the character of the person. The name we use to identify the person is not significant. Defining the symbol behind the name is significant.



2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't


Ceremonies are reminders of what the symbol means. In some cases, the ceremony is there to lead us slowly to the correct view and understanding of the symbol. For instance, baptism is the immersion of the person in the river of water. The hope is that the person rises to a new life by being transformed by the renewing of their spirit. Does baptism accomplish this literally? To answer this, you need to define the symbol. Baptism is our immersion into the water of material reality. We are placed here in hopes that the experience raises us to new life in Christ. We are here to make the choice of villain or hero. This is determined by doing the will of God. The will of God is giving instead of taking. If a person takes a reward, suffering follows. Smoke and you get cancer. Suffer work by giving and you get reward. Suffer the work of an education and get a degree. Suffering leads to reward.



3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?


There is no difference. The Lord is God. Jesus is the Lord. They are one. One testimony in the OT is from the perspective of the law. Being out of context with truth requires law and punishment. Being in context with law only requires one law of love. If a person loves others, there are no laws that can be broken because taking or giving is the only determining factor with sin. The OT was there to show us the harsh reality of living by the law. We don't want that kind of Tyranny. Law leads to tyranny in case you haven't noticed. God was showing us by example. Our own history shows us in parallel. The NT is a new covenant apart from law. We are free if we love others and love God. No law is necessary. The entire Bible was our example.



4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer? Why or why not?



Revelation is one of two things. 1) Natural law written in proverb or a scientific paper. 2) Revealed foreknowledge of future events. God can draw the future into the past so we can know before it happens. For instance.

Genesis says that the fruit of knowledge would make us die. We would be under the law if we took the fruit rather than letting God give it to us in the right way. We didn't know then that technology is the fruit of knowledge. We also didn't know that 6 electrons, 6 protons and 6 neutrons is carbon. This is the mark of mankind and the mark of our technology. We now know that using the fruit of the garden for our own selfish ambitions is not good. Using it to give to others is good. Making sure that it gives back to nature is also good. Giving is love. Taking is greed. Good and Evil are defined by compassion or greed. We choose to be the hero or the Sadducee and Pharisee.

Read this article on my Blog. LINK

The other articles cover much of the remaining topics above.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Okay, so here is what I think as a Christian about your questions:

(1) I don't think the Lord minds if you get the name and pronunciation perfect. Call Him Bob if you want- He knows when you are addressing Him and if you're not.

(2) I don't think structured ceremonies for this and that are too important. If a person makes up their own ceremonies to honor Him in whatever fashion he would like I imagine He will get the message.

(3) The Lord (in the O.T.) was pretty strict and got mad a lot. I'm sure he probably still does. But He knows we're messed up and decided to give us a way out of the "doghouse". He gave us His son (who is a very forgiving dude) to teach us the way. He sacrificed himself so that all we have to do is ask him to put in a good word for us ( and ask forgiveness and REALLY mean it) and the Father is all good! Kinda like when you were a kid and asking your Mom to tell your Dad you were really sorry for hitting the car with a baseball and you would never do it again- but really mean it!

(4)In the days when Revelations was written there weren't too many people claiming to have God-given visions complete with Angelic visitation and such, so John of Patmos was considered credible. Nowadays there are prophets who have been correct on a lot of things, but there are also nutbags who need to be on meds. It is up to the individual to decide who or what they wish to believe.

That's my take on things. When it comes down to it people believe what they want to believe and disregard the rest. After all, it's all a matter of faith- and NONE of us will really know what it's all about until "the fat lady sings"!



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Dear SaturnFX,



1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...aka, proper pronounciations and such, or can I simply refer to God as Odin and Jesus as Thor (fact...Gods name is not God, and Jesus is not jesus...just what we westerners call it...so, we already have made up names anyhow) Explain why (or why not) it matters what name we place on the concepts

2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't

3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?

4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer? Why or why not?


1) No. People become overly fixated on the name and forget what it meant, it meant "I Am". You don't need to speak perfect Hebrew to know God. I don't believe the only unforgivable sin is not knowing how to pronounce his name.

2) The purpose of ritual is to signify that something was important, the ritual itself is not critical. Because most people could not read, contracts were completed with rituals to make it clear to everyone that people had made an agreement or that a major point in life had been reached.

3) God of the old testament was not angry; but, how would you explain why he did what he did to people of those days. The Old Testament was meant for people who had come out of Egypt to learn to be different than the societies that surrounded them. By the time of Jesus, Jewish society had evolved to become legalistic and forgot the reasons for the rules; therefore, a new lesson was taught.

4) As for Revelations, it wasn't written as a mass produced book, it was more of a letter to churches that knew the person who had written it. The same is true for most if not all of the new Testament. The letters of Paul are a clearer example, these letters were written directly to people who Paul had met and who knew him. If you look at Revelations it begins by sending a message to very specific churches, it wasn't written to the public at large.

In the end, why should you care about any of these answers? If you seek to help others because you love others and believe that people are important, you will come to know that we matter and that there is more in the universe then just a bunch of rocks and gas. 2,000 years ago Revelations said that one day you would need a mark to buy or sell, if that happens don't take the mark. Peace. I also like to point out that 2,000 years ago it was said that the word of God would be spread throughout the whole world and that once that happened there would be a falling away from the church. A rather odd prediction if one thinks about it. Why would a religion believe that it would be heard world wide and that just as that happened people would stop following, yet, that is exactly what we are seeing.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 08:42 PM
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1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...aka, proper pronounciations and such, or can I simply refer to God as Odin and Jesus as Thor (fact...Gods name is not God, and Jesus is not jesus...just what we westerners call it...so, we already have made up names anyhow)
Explain why (or why not) it matters what name we place on the concepts


No, it only matters if you recognize him as God. Many people call him many names.


2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't


None matters, neither will make or break you. What matters most is where your heart is at.


3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?


The Old Testament was man's view of God. You were reading peoples account. With the NT, you are reading the words of God himself down here with man.


4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer? Why or why not?


If they agree with scripture, then yes each mans is credible. Father gives each man a vision as he will take it.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 

1) Does it matter if you get the absolutely correct name of God or Jesus...Explain why (or why not) it matters what name we place on the concepts
Jesus is not a concept, he is a person, so get the name straight, or you go to Hell. If you say anything other that that, you are inventing your own savior, which of course does not work.

2) What ceremonies do matter, and what doesn't? (aka, marriage, eucharist. sabbath day, etc). and why do some matter and others don't
All of the above because God endorses true religion and if you do not engage in it, you will go to hell.

3) Why is the deity of the old testiment so angry, but jesus is such a likeable guy?
So you know what will happen to you if you do not follow exactly what I just told you to do.

4) If revelations is a series of visions given to a simple man, does this mean anyone with visions = just as credible as the initial seer? Why or why not?
Jesus came back from God after his post-resurrection ascension to heaven and gave special powers to the twelve (minus one) disciples. He also gave power to the others but those select few had the sort to where they could create religions in their own right.
edit on 26-1-2012 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




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