WM3-Parents write Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences in reguards to Paradise Lost 3

reply to post by JoshF


You are not the original poster of the material
This is copy and paste and a link you didnt add any of your own information.
Go read 15c and 15j www.abovetopsecret.com...

Agreed lets get this back on topic

Originally posted by LongbottomLeaf
reply to post by JoshF

 

Agreed lets get this back on topic

Good why don't you respond to what I have posted in regards to the miskelly confession (which you were wrong about) and how I don't know anything?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by JoshF


Oh I used the letter "a" when I mean to put "the" is in THE crime, as in reference to THE murder, which he never confessed to. Your going to be that petty?

I have a question.....

Is it possible that Hobbs, jacoby and the wm3 were all involved in some way?

I have done the research on this case as well, and for a long time I was convinced it was Hobbs.....but I went back over things a few times and something did not sit right with me about Damien. Call it a hunch, intuition or whatever....something isn't right about him....and it has nothing to do with him having mental issues or a bad childhood, or his struggle in prison.....it is him on the inside....

I see both sides of this and I do not think we will ever know the truth, we can debate all night.

Here is my other question.....

How do ya"ll feel about this letter that the parents wrote?

Originally posted by LongbottomLeaf
reply to post by JoshF

 

Oh I used the letter "a" when I mean to put "the" is in THE crime, as in reference to THE murder, which he never confessed to. Your going to be that petty?

Yes holding someone and hitting someone so that they can be murdered by your friend is still murder. He confessed to taking part in THE crime and A crime
That is not being petty

Originally posted by LongbottomLeaf
reply to post by JoshF

 

Jesse never admitted to committing a crime he confessed he only watched, but you know what your talking about.

Is not the same as saying "Jesse never admitted to committing the crime", you can't really fault me for what YOU said.
Do you really see how ridiculous your arguments are getting? Like all WM3 supporters when it comes down to facts you tend to fall on your face so you resort to things like "i meant to say.." and occasionally bringing up something else every time one of your ignorant arguments get shot down.Pointing out that you keep using "your" instead of "you're", now that is petty.

Originally posted by Mijamija
I have a question.....

Is it possible that Hobbs, jacoby and the wm3 were all involved in some way?

I personally have not seen any facts that really point to either of them as being the likely killers. And contrary to what WM3 supporters tell themselves there was solid police work in this investigation. The police did look into the parents and the police even had a suspect before the WM3 that they got a false confession out of, but the facts did not work out and it was a dead end.

I have done the research on this case as well, and for a long time I was convinced it was Hobbs.....but I went back over things a few times and something did not sit right with me about Damien. Call it a hunch, intuition or whatever....something isn't right about him....and it has nothing to do with him having mental issues or a bad childhood, or his struggle in prison.....it is him on the inside....

The guy is off and honestly almost everyone involved with this case with the exception of the moore family seems to have major issues.

How do ya"ll feel about this letter that the parents wrote?

I feel their pain, they get to see their children's killers go free and watch as they are like celebrities while they reap the benefits of the murder.

reply to post by JoshF


Now I'm going to get real petty

reply to post by JoshF


I like how I mess up my wording once and it somehow means my argument is falling apart.But your right I am now seeing how ridiculous the whole thing is getting. Meaning they're out of jail and there's nothing you can do about it. PS No one likes a grammar Nazi. Have fun arguing a a dead case.

Here is a reasonable question:

If the WM3 are guilty, and the court believed they were, why would they allow them to walk?

I'm def a WM3 noob, but since I saw the news of their release in August I have really looked at th case and all sides. The befuddlement over letting three murderers go is what piqued my interest, however the more I looked at it , the more I became convinced the WM3 were not guilty. Misskelly was interrogated for almost 12 hours before the police began to record, and when the did start to record the officers were terribly leading the kid. I mean misskelly said first the murders happened at noon, the 3 pm then, finally, after prompted by police said 7 or 8 pm. That alone tells me his confession is bad. And the way he said it happened, if it indeed happened that way, would have produced way more evidence at the scene, but there was none. And the clincher for me was that the DNA evidence that can be linked to Hobbs was not found on his stepson, but on the Moore boy, who was not related, entwined in the shoelace that bound him. I am not saying Hobbs did it, that is one mistake the original filmmakers made, the focus should have remained on the reasonable doubt that these three boys did it, and not started making wild accusations. The whole thing stinks. I must say I am surprised so many on this thread are taking the side of TPTB, especially for ow much TPTB get railed on here at ATS.

To say nothing about the jury foreman who read to the jury the confession of Misskelly, even though it was not admissible. I think I even read that a few jurors made up their minds after that, so that's a mistrial right there. With the evidence as it stands, if you think you know who the murderer(s) are, you are probably wrong, and that goes for both sides.

Originally posted by LongbottomLeaf
reply to post by JoshF

 

I like how I mess up my wording once and it somehow means my argument is falling apart.

No, your horrible arguments is what make them fall apart.

There was zero evidence against them...

Like that, it clearly shows how little you actually know about the case.

PS No one likes a grammar Nazi. Have fun arguing a a dead case.

I was not being a "grammar" Nazi. I was pointing out what being petty was vs replying to what you wrote, Im starting to believe that you have problems with reading comprehension because i find myself once again trying to explain something to you that could easily have been explain had you read and understood what was written .

reply to post by DarkKnight76

Misskelly was interrogated for almost 12 hours before the police began to record, and when the did start to record the officers were terribly leading the kid. I mean misskelly said first the murders happened at noon, the 3 pm then, finally, after prompted by police said 7 or 8 pm.

Common misconception, Misskelly's confession was 4 1/2 hours into the interrogation, not 12 hours. Misskelly also admits he was trying to throw detectives off in his original confession .
callahan.8k.com...
This is from another confession he made AFTER he was convicted. It is dated Feb 17th and he was found guilty on the 5th.

DAVIS: Ok. Now you said before when the police asked you in their statement and asked you what they were tied up with. And you said they were tied up with rope. Ah..

MISSKELLEY: I made that up.

DAVIS: Why?

MISSKELLEY: Tied to get off, you know get'm off track.

DAVIS: Who tied'm up?

MISSKELLEY: Damien and Jason.

DAVIS: Did you pull, did you pull the strings out of their shoes?

MISSKELLEY: In one, in one of'm.

DAVIS: Ok.

MISSKELLEY: But the rest I just, I just just whoever pulled'm out.

DAVIS: Were Damien and Jason taking the strings out of the shoes too or were you doing that?

MISSKELLEY: I was doing that.

DAVIS: Ok. And when you'd get the strings out you'd hand'm to the other two.

MISSKELLEY: Uhm.. (yes)

That alone tells me his confession is bad.

The detectives know what a false confession is, another popular claim is that somehow the police were not familiar with false confessions then. That is simply not true, the detectives actually did get a false confession out of another person that they let go because they recognized it for what it was, a false confession.
callahan.8k.com...

And the clincher for me was that the DNA evidence that can be linked to Hobbs was not found on his stepson, but on the Moore boy, who was not related, entwined in the shoelace that bound him.

The DNA results were a poor match and the shoe laces were mixed up, at best it proves that the boys were at Terry Hobbs house at one point.

To say nothing about the jury foreman who read to the jury the confession of Misskelly, even though it was not admissible.

Now that is a legal loophole and does not really prove innocence nor does it raise any sort of doubt, all that would do is get them a new trial. And the actual trial that took place is much different than the one that is shown by WM3 supporters and their websites.

So anymore "proof" of innocence?

I would say the proof is in the fact that they were set free. While the court is saying they still have a case, the three men are still maintaining there innocence. When I did my research prompted by this very thread, I read some really damming views from the new people that are taking charge. Namely the fact they are trying to just let the damn case go because, New evidence and witness for the defense keep getting more credible.

That coupled with the fact that the D.A is afraid to take them back to court because they think that the case would get over turned. With a 25 year vet of the F.B.I who worked with all kinds of killers is now on the defense saying that the three boys don't fit the murder and that it was done by one man.

I really don't know what to think really, I guess I would go with the lone man theory. As I'm going to side, with some one who has worked with killers for 25 years. I think that the police work was shoddy, and there is multiple witnesses claiming that the police were already after one of the boys before they even began to suspect him. Also couple that with the fact that the moved the bodies before the coroner even got there, thus compromising the area. Even the D.A now is admitting that the police involved were screwed up. Claiming that they were refusing help because they I.E the police were under investigation as it was.

Really fishy the whole way around, could the boys have done it? Yes, could any one else have done it up to and including people who haven't been named? Yes, will we ever really know because of bungled evidence and lost evidence? No!

That is what this whole case really boils down into. The police dropped the ball, and no one was been able to pick it up. The fact they went with the odd plea deal is testament to that, They no longer want to touch this case with a ten foot pole. They also entered into the deal because if they went to retrial, they know they would lose. Opening up the state to a lot of fail incarceration lawsuits.

I feel bad for the family's of them all, I hope that one day we will see the truth. Yet as long as men still have some thing to lose by the true, we won't see it.

reply to post by Reaper2137

Namely the fact they are trying to just let the damn case go because, New evidence and witness for the defense keep getting more credible.

Hardly, the defense "witnesses" are poor at best. The woman who claims to have seen the boys that day not only withheld this information for 16 years, it directly contradicts statements made by Terry Hobbs wife (who also points the finger at terry 16 years latter). The link to the full interview is earlier in the thread. Meanwhile more damning evidence has come to light, like Misskelly's confession after his trial, he mentions smashing an evans whiskey bottle by the scene, and when checked out was there. How does a "false confession" deliver corroborating evidence? Now keep in mind during that confession Jesse was told by his lawyer (who was present) to basically shut up, even the DA told him more than once that he did not have to speak and that he SHOULD listen to his lawyer.Then you have testimony with that states the Jason Baldwin was trying to get rid of a knife because "someone was going to accuse him of using it" 4 days after the murder. The DNA found at the tree near the crime scene was found a month after the crime and was never tested against any of the law enforcement officials that were in the area during the investigation.
callahan.8k.com...

With a 25 year vet of the F.B.I who worked with all kinds of killers is now on the defense saying that the three boys don't fit the murder and that it was done by one man.

And earlier they had an expert that it was a "rage killing" by someone who knew the victims and they had an expert that said that the teeth marks were not caused by any of the WM3. Today that have a new expert with a new profile and they now have an expert that says all the wounds were inflicted by animals. To me it seems the free the WM3 movement just needs to spend their seemingly endless supply of money to find experts that will slant things in their favor, but that is what a good defense team will do. The prosecution on the other hand has not changed their story. The prosecution has to show who committed the crime, the job of the defense is to cast doubt. The defense does not have to show that their client did not do it, they just need to create doubt. Through the years they have done this by promoting outright lies, hiring experts that give conflicting expert testimony and by making cases against other people.

I think that the police work was shoddy, and there is multiple witnesses claiming that the police were already after one of the boys before they even began to suspect him.

Not true at all, this was propaganda forwarded by the free WM3 movement to further the idea that they were after them because they wore "all black" and listened to metal. Solid police work led them to those three and the police had interrogated other suspects before the murders.
callahan.8k.com...
callahan.8k.com...
callahan.8k.com...

Also couple that with the fact that the moved the bodies before the coroner even got there, thus compromising the area.

Yes they did move the bodies but that does not really change any of the evidence against the WM3.

The fact they went with the odd plea deal is testament to that, They no longer want to touch this case with a ten foot pole.

I think they people are trying to get re-elected, you have all these Hollywood types coming to Arkansas and shifting public opinion.

They also entered into the deal because if they went to retrial, they know they would lose. Opening up the state to a lot of fail incarceration lawsuits.

Not 100% true, I am still waiting for all the docs to be released but at the evidentiary hearing the prosecutor was very afraid of setting a new precedent where by new trials would be granted for many convicted murderers.

As for the how and why for this newest court decision we will just have to wait and see what else gets exposed. You also have to keep in mind that after 18 years some people are dead. One of the Jurors involved in the jurror misconduct allegations is dead and the person who collected fiber samples that linked Damien to the Crime scene is also dead, so they can't be questioned. But personally that fiber evidence found on the boy scout uniform was very weak, there was very little of it and it was VERY common.
All i know is that if i am ever sent to jail for a crime I did or did not commit I am going to dye my hair and write every celebrity under the sun. Money makes all the difference in the world.

Ellington said that although he still considered the men guilty, the three would likely be acquitted if a new trial were held given the powerful legal counsel representing them now, the loss of evidence over time, and the change of heart among some of the witnesses.[59]

en.wikipedia.org...

That right there says the whole thing mate, I'm not going to argue the semantics with you. The whole reason as I've stated the state did what it did with the plea deal was it knew that should it go to retrial they had a 90% shot of getting acquitted.

We can go back and forth on the points all you want. Yet that quote above says it all. They know this time around they won't win. The three men are just desperate enough to take the moral win and let bygones be bygones. Simple fact is we won't ever know what happened.

Even if all three were really guilty as sin, there is as you say multiple accounts of what happened. Made by the two boys, and all the witnesses. I've yet to see some one stick to their story including the police.

I don't see how its WM3 supporters saying that the police work was bad. I say that because I was a Military Police officer. You don't move the bodies before the baggers and taggers get there. Also its a matter of public record that the police doing the investigation were under investigation them self's. This is public fact not really wm3 supports accusations.

This was a horrible case, I can see why the locals dropped the ball tho. Its not something they were equipped to handle at the time. I'm not saying the boys are innocent but if it goes back to trial the fact that the cops dropped the ball coupled with the fact of evidence going missing. also the fact that most of the wittiness have changed sides. The Stat will lose. Its not a question of if but when.

I do see you have some very valid points, but you won't see closure on this case mate. The state knows it won't win so they take as a tie.

So I've never heard of this case and would be interested in a documentary or book.
What can anyone recommend?

Are the Paradise Lost doc's any good or are they too biased or what?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

reply to post by Reaper2137

Ellington said that although he still considered the men guilty, the three would likely be acquitted if a new trial were held given the powerful legal counsel representing them now, the loss of evidence over time, and the change of heart among some of the witnesses.[59]

en.wikipedia.org...

That right there says the whole thing mate, I'm not going to argue the semantics with you. The whole reason as I've stated the state did what it did with the plea deal was it knew that should it go to retrial they had a 90% shot of getting acquitted.

Yes he still thinks they are guilty but he knows that like OJ Echols and Baldiwin have enough money to hire experts that could convince people the the Ninja turtles did it.

We can go back and forth on the points all you want. Yet that quote above says it all. They know this time around they won't win.

You are only reading what you want to read, they still believe them to be guilty. Winning or losing does not really equal innocence or guilt. You can't ignore 2 guilty verdicts and then use as "proof" that they are innocent.

Simple fact is we won't ever know what happened.

How many more confessions do we need?

I've yet to see some one stick to their story including the police.

So how many stories have the police told? Because they have been saying they did it since the start of the trial, Jesse has been saying he did it since before,during and after the trial.

Also its a matter of public record that the police doing the investigation were under investigation them self's.

Again that does not really change any of the evidence or confessions, do you know what came of those investigations? What they were being investigated for?

I'm not saying the boys are innocent but if it goes back to trial the fact that the cops dropped the ball coupled with the fact of evidence going missing. also the fact that most of the wittiness have changed sides.

Most witnesses have changed sides? That is a lie, all they have is new "witnesses" that are willing to tell a fourth hand story that they were told.

Originally posted by blupblup
So I've never heard of this case and would be interested in a documentary or book.
What can anyone recommend?

Are the Paradise Lost doc's any good or are they too biased or what?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

So far every documentary I have seen has been beyond biased and they really resort to blatant lies and horrible distortions of the truth. The absolute most unbiased source for all information is here
callahan.8k.com...
There are no claims of innocence or guilt it is all just official court records,investigation records pretty much every doc that is related to the case. That is to say it is just the facts, you can make up your own mind.

In the eyes of the state, 2 convictions and the 3rd being over turned = innocence weather you like it or not. That in a nut shell will is why the state took the plea once again. The knew that it would be over turned.

My next prediction is that once the new factor of being free wears off for those boys, they are going to turn around and demand the retrial. They will win, and than sue the state for false imprisonment and win.

Most of the world could swear up and down that casey anthony murdered her little girl. It was impossible for her to get a fair trial because of the media coverage of the case. You couldn't fine a person in the entire united states that didn't know about the case.

Yet despite the fact that the cops and D.A bungled that case to she was found innocent. Her peers have spoken, no matter what you think you weren't there, neither was I. We won't ever know who did it. Further more, Its not a lie that witnesses have changed sides that was from the D.A office

Are you saying that the D.A is liar now?

Point is, really from a police perspective and from some one who has worked that kind of job, in the eyes of the state those boys will be innocent should another trial come up. The police in question from what I read were already looking to pin it on those boys. They mismanaged the case, I'm not going to comment on who I think did it because its really irrelevant.

Weather you want to sit here all day and debate, these true fact points. these are the facts

1. They struck a plea deal were every one won for now. They state maintains that it has enough "evidence" to get a conviction. The Boys get to maintain there innocence.

2. That the state has acknowledged, that most of the "evidence" has either gone missing or has become corrupted, and thus are not seeking a retrial because they know they will lose.

3. The boys are free now, on time served and can't remember if it said it or not probation.

Just because you have two camps with different beliefs doesn't mean they are both wrong. You should quit trying so hard to convince people that they are guilty, You and the family and every one else will not get closure. You won't win just as any one else won't win in this case because its can't be won.

Take a breath, its all just noise