Out of these two I doubt Jesus will condemn both Catholic and protestants, I know the Cathlolics love their saints festivals does not mean Jesus is off topic, the Italian government had to fight off some Muslim who took a school to court because his son was offended by a cross that was up in the class.

So you could say the Catholics won their case for Jesus unlike Anglican protestant UK which bows down to such actions against them and lose in court battles when they get there.

Would Christ not allow Italian Catholics up at the first Trumpet where the dead and the remaing living go up to God?

The Catholics might have a few differences but if Christ't message is to believe in him who says they should not go up in a rapture too?

Originally posted by SaturnFX
So..are all the jews and muslims going to heaven then? neither believe jesus to be the avatar of god...just a prophet at best.

Imagine you spend your whole life, living virtuously, doing the right thing in hard circumstances, you obey all of the tenants of your religion, you are kind to all you meet, you loving raise your children and are good to either your husband or wife, and all of a sudden, BANG! You are in hell because you chose, or was raised to believe in the wrong avatar! Man I would be Pissed!

Originally posted by will615

Originally posted by Blue Shift
All Catholics are going to Heaven, no matter what. That's what Jesus died for. Duh. The various Protestant sects can fight about it all they want, who gets to go and who doesn't. But they're all horribly misguided, and
none of them are going, anyway.

Not all Catholics, my friend.

I was raised Catholic myself, but now I just consider myself a Christian, but I know plenty of people who truly believe their righteous Catholics and are the furthest thing from it.

Surely the same can be said of almost any person from any basket, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu etc...!

Originally posted by Blue Shift
I was raised Catholic myself, but now I just consider myself a Christian, but I know plenty of people who truly believe their righteous Catholics and are the furthest thing from it.

1 - Catholics ARE Christian.
2 - I know plenty of people who truly believe they are righteous born again christians, but they really aren't.

Originally posted by mikesherlock
Catholics pray to saints for and about things.

If you look at what they are doing .. and listen to what they are saying .. they are not 'worshiping' the saint, but instead are asking them to pray to God for them. It's the same as if I asked you to pray to God for me. There is no saint worship happening. Catholics honor the saints ... absolutely. They talk to them in prayer ... definately. They don't worship them. The Catholic catechism is very clear ... worship belongs to God alone.

Originally posted by mikesherlock

Originally posted by SaturnFX
So..are all the jews and muslims going to heaven then? neither believe jesus to be the avatar of god...just a prophet at best.

Imagine you spend your whole life, living virtuously, doing the right thing in hard circumstances, you obey all of the tenants of your religion, you are kind to all you meet, you loving raise your children and are good to either your husband or wife, and all of a sudden, BANG! You are in hell because you chose, or was raised to believe in the wrong avatar! Man I would be Pissed!

Reminds me of southpark during hell orientation
Satan up there giving the regular speech, then the crowd getting grumpy
Man1: "But I was a faithful catholic!"
Man2: "Ya, I was a devoted protestant!"

Satan: "Oh, sorry, the correct answer was Morman...Morman."
Crowd: "Aww!"

Catholics , Roman catholics are Christians so to speak , but i doubt the majority of them will make it to heaven during the rapture or i may be wrong.

If you believe that Jesus Christ is your only salvation to God the farther and he is the only one that can save your soul and you invite him to save you and forgive you of your sins? Then you will be raptured.

Mary is just another woman. She was blessed , but she is just a woman in heaven. Nothing more , nothing less. She is one of God's children. She can offer you nothing in terms of salvation or blessings.

No saints can give you blessings or intercede in your life (the dead ones) in any way shape or form. They are in heaven , and are at rest , well most likely paradise , i do not think heaven is open yet. They are in heaven or paradise at this moment or hell , depends if they accepted Jesus Christ as their lord and savior or not.

Only Jesus Christ , The Holy Spirit , and Yahweh do you belong.

I am not religious, but was born/raised a catholic. My home town is actually where the current pope is from.

Anyway, in all my years..i have never heard of a "rapture"..its NOT something the catholic church teaches.

Here it describes that when the first ressurection happens those who are still alive will be caught up in the clouds with God.

But I also believe people have missed this point and are not aware of it and that is the second ressurection.

1 Thessalonians 4

Believers Who Have Died
13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.

Revelation 20
The Thousand Years

They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5 (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Originally posted by The time lord
I believe both will get into a Rapture, as long as Christ is the centre of your thoughts, although the traditional Catholics pray to the Saints and Mary as a way of saying they are not worthy of praying to Jesus, or the Saints are used to spread knowledge of the religion to get people interested like Easter, different regions have their own patriot Saints anyway.

If Protestants and Catholics both pray and believe in Christ they must be heard by God and Christ anyway so would God leave out one or the other when it comes to the rapture of the Church?

Not everyone knows about the rapture, where the believers in Christ will resurrect first and at some point in the future, you don't have to know about it technically in order to be accepted, for some they overlook the passages and don't realise, does not mean they won't be included if there is a rapture either way.

I guess rapture does make sense because why would God have to wait for every single person to die on earth in order for there to be a resurrection? At some point in Man's history we go to heaven, hell is not until after the 1000 years of peace at judgement day according to the Bible. Of course there is the theory we go to heaven as soon as we die, some may take a glimpse of it in their near death experiences or some heighted state of consciousness, but according to the Bible it is a one show event followed by a second event in which the non believers come to life to be judged on the wrong things they had done in life rather than the believers good deeds and forgotten sins forgiven by Christ.

I think the rapture is nothing but a sales gimmick!

Originally posted by mikesherlock
I also have a strong Catholic background, my grandfather's brother was a priest and his sister a nun, I lived in the Philippines when I was young, and I must correct you, forgive me! Catholics pray to saints for and about things. There is no way around this! It is a very common practice!

Regarding Catholics and Orthodox who seek the intercession of the saints, I have a response that I compiled long ago for occasions such as this:

I pray thee to hearken unto my post.

There are around six different Greek words that are usually translated into English as 'prayer'. These words encompass supplications, intercessions, thanksgiving, etc. Prayer to the saints IS NOT WORSHIP! Perhaps this misconception came about from bad translation? At any rate, I Timothy 2:4 upholds the practice of intercession for others, and we are quite cognizant of the fact that Christ's mediation is what makes intercession possible.

So, on that note, let me address the topic (if it hasn’t been brought up already) of there only being one mediator between God and man- Jesus Christ. That’s a big duh and we don’t disagree. When you use that you’re arguing against a straw man and not the actual practice.

Observe: We DO go directly to the Holy Trinity in prayer. However, the next time someone at your church, or wherever, asks you to pray for them, I wonder if you would simply tell them to only go to Christ and not bother you with the task of praying for them? Think about it.

Furthermore, when you say that we’re praying to the dead, we absolutely aren’t and scripture agrees. When you argue from this particular perspective you are actually insinuating that the God you claim to worship and believe in is the god of the dead and not the living!

However, the God I worship is the God of the living. The saints of the Church are ALIVE in Christ. I will ask them to pray for me, as I ask my other brothers and sisters in Christ to pray for me, and I them.

Scripture agrees (I hope you do too, otherwise you’re calling God a liar):

John 6:47-51
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”

John 5:25-29
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself, and has given him authority to execute judgment, because he is the Son of man. Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment.


Matthew 27:51-53
“And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split, tombs were opened, and the bodies of many saints who had fallen asleep were raised. And coming forth from their tombs after his resurrection, they entered the holy city and appeared to many.”

John 11:23-27
“Jesus said to her, ‘Your brother will rise.’ Martha said to him, ‘I know he will rise, in the resurrection on the last day.’ ”

“Jesus told her, ‘I am the resurrection and the life; whoever believes in me, even if he dies, will live, and everyone who lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?’ ” She said to him, ‘Yes, Lord. I have come to believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of God, ...’ ”

Matthew 22:32
“ ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Luke 20:38
“and he is not God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

John 8:51
“Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever keeps my word will never see death.”

Hebrews 12:1
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us rid ourselves of every burden and sin that clings to us and persevere in running the race that lies before us"

What ever interpretation do people not believe that Cathoics will make the first Resurrection? You can not deny in both religions that there is a first and second Resurrection regardless of rapture.

The Catholics just don't pray and celebrate the Human Saints they celebrate the Arch Angels like Michael aswell, everyone who is in heaven or going to Heaven or are already in heaven as way of saying pray for us.

It seems to be a cultural attitude where people think, they are so desperate because their sins might not be accepted by Jesus so they seek the minor saints to act as ambassadors of prayer.
Also they remember the saints as an educational tool, the culture is more informed we hardly know them in the UK anymore apart from St.George and St.Patrick, but they celebrate Easter and Christmas anyway whilst in the UK they start to make political correctness about it.

The massive presumption is that the interpretations of this so-called rapture are correct.

The devil is in the detail, as they say, but this is just a case of overcomplicating a very simple process which occurs on a somewhat 'regular' basis...it has nought to do with catholicism/christianity/buddhism/islam...

It is a 'call' rendered by ALL prophets to follow guidelines which will see the spirit advancing, and not stagnating for another period of time...

Individuals of any denomination, whether they have 'accepted' Christ or not, living thier life in whichever way they choose will reap the consequences of thier FREE WILL and action subsequent to this...

God does NOT divide on the grounds of the knowledge of Christ...this is patently ridiculous.

Akushla

Originally posted by akushla99

God does NOT divide on the grounds of the knowledge of Christ...this is patently ridiculous.

Akushla

That is the difference between Christians and non Christians, he is the safety net of our bodies because he became man in order to for us to reach the next path and resurrect with him, where as other religions there is no guarantee with them, either its up to fate or you go round recarnating in circles without really knowing the path.

With Christ at least he part man he can guide us in and the outcome is secure, no one knows where they are ending up in with Buddhism, Hinduism and Islam, they can not promise you salvation where as Christ can and that is why it is the religion that covers the most people and nations of the world because Jesus Can.

Also when it comes to Catholic saints and symbols they take the Cross very seriously, I just think they cover everyone and celebrate them all in different provinces across Italy and the world, one thing they may lack like most Chritians is the lack of reading the Bible but at least the culture makes the effort to celebrate it and remember them.

Also it seems Roman Catholics and normal Catholics have differences too and the two can be confused as one entity, the more you read about the Roman Catholic faith the more it sounds like a dicatorship, it becomes judge leaving out Jesus as a secondary figure, it is in its own realm.