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Will Catholics make the Rapture; is it only a Protestant thing?

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posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 07:56 AM
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Originally posted by sligtlyskeptical
reply to post by The time lord
 


I would say no. Neither one of you get into the rapture. Anyone who believes they will get in because they belong to a a certian religion, most certianly will not. It is not about professing your faith, it is about living your life as Jesus would live it. Without hate or prejudice or ego, etc. It is about truly loving your neighbor regardless of their faith, race, beliefs, etc.

I think all the self professed christians are in for a big surprise if the judgment day actually does come.


Right On, sligtlyskeptical. I starred you. I would star you 100 times if that were possible.




posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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reply to post by troubleshooter
 



I think it is a case of 'say something long and often enough and less discerning people will believe it'.


I agree on the Darby issue, and have posted on it many times in here. I know it sounds really good, take a man, a wise and gentle man who came here to teach us all how to love, make him into a God, set him up at the Idol of the Church, on his cross and all, to make you feel sorry for him, while all the time in deep worship to him, and that gets you a ticket to Paradise. Oh, almost forgot. 10% of your income is necessary too. And, you are required to save a few sinners. I have to hand it to the originators. They certainly had a good plan for control of the world.
Two Nations go to war? The Church resides in both. You know, like the Freemasons, and the Mafia. Will there be a Rapture like the Christians think? I highly doubt it, but anything is possible. There will be a chance to get off planet, but it won't be like anyone thinks.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by The time lord
 


Well Catholics don't believe in the "Rapture" (because it's a made up belief originating in the 1700's by a puritan but was brought main stream by an asshat named John Nelson Darby in the 1800's in Ireland.) But died out in Europe for the most part .. it took root in American protestant culture, especially in the South. Fire and Brimstone, Rapture and Damnation. So much selective murder by a God I have a hard time believing they are not all satanist.


So no .. most of the Christian World do not believe in the "rapture" .. is pretty much contained to American Protestants.


edit on 1/27/2012 by Rockpuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
So no .. most of the Christian World do not believe in the "rapture" .. is pretty much contained to American Protestants.

Heyya Rockpuck! American FUNDAMENTALIST protestants.
I know that Episcopalians, Lutherans and most Methodists don't buy into it. Baptists and Church of Christ ... yep. It's kinda funny .. they are the ones screaming that the bible has to be taken literally and yet the bible clearly says no pretrib rapture. ODD.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 



Currently as I write this there is only God the Father and Jesus Christ the son as immortal spirit beings in the Elohim (family) of God. By June of this year there will be 144,000 more members all tranformed in the twinkling of an eye; first those who are dead and in the ground (Mary, Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Moses, Aaron, Solomon, David, Joseph etc.) then those who are alive still (extreamly few alive today are sealed into this group) to join Christ at the very moment he begins to return to Earth to rule mankind as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.


I just love it when you all make these broad statements of fact with not a thing to back it up. How do you know this to be fact? Have you been there, saw for yourself?
In the Bible the word for God in the Hebrew that is most often used is Elohim. It is a plural noun. Today it is popular to say it means plural of Majesty. However the form of the word, Eloh-im, is plural. The word for God in the singular sense is El, which is used most often in describing a God's characteristics or attributes. El Eyon, El Shaddai, (The Hebrew word shaddai comes from the root word 'breast'. Literally translated it would mean 'many-breasted one'.)
In the Hebrew when Elohim is when used of the true God it is used singular, as a composite unity, when it is used of other Gods it is used in the plural.

May I ask where is the Mother here in the abode of the Divine?
The Hebrew and Christian scriptures have been dismissed lately as patriarchal texts with little or no God/Divine imagery for women to identify with. The criticism is accepted, yet there remain traces of maternal imagery that have not been overridden by the patriarchs and their mythographers. There are many who still know the Divine Mother.
She even speaks on the KJV Bible, if you are not so blind as not to notice....
Proverbs 8:
1. Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

2. She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3. She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

4. Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5. O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6. Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7. For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8. All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9. They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10. Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11. For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

12. I, wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 

How can you equate the word Esoteric, and being Luciferian?

esoteric
adjective
1. understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest; recondite: poetry full of esoteric allusions.
2. belonging to the select few.
3. private; secret; confidential.
4. (of a philosophical doctrine or the like) intended to be revealed only to the initiates of a group: the esoteric doctrines of Pythagoras.
Dictionary.com Source

According to Wikipedia, The term can also refer to the academic study of esoteric religious movements and philosophies, or more generally of alternative or marginalized religious movements or philosophies whose proponents distinguish their beliefs, practices, and experiences from mainstream institutionalized traditions.
Where does Lucifer figure in here, friend?
Lucifer: from the Latin: 'lux', 'light' and 'ferre', 'to carry'.
Lucifer

Is this a usual thing of saying that hidden knowledge, only known by a few who are willing to study it are Evil? I don't get it!

Also, praying for the dead and believing you can absolve the sins of the dead is pagan.

Sorry, but that practice is not Pagan, no way, now how. I believe it originated with the Catholic Church.
The Church's Prayer for the Dead
Then it seem Paul picked it up....
Did Paul Pray for the Dead?
Pagans do not "pray for the dead," we know that no body dies, only the body goes back to Mother Earth, the Spirit is Immortal.
Where do you get this stuff, anyway?



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by autowrench
 

The practice of praying to God for the dead precedes the Christians. It was practiced by the Jews (Maccabees 2 - "It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins" ). It's practiced around the world by many different faiths and has been for a very long time. There is nothing wrong with praying for the dead. To claim that there is .. is just wrong.


Originally posted by autowrench
Where do you get this stuff, anyway?

He's a 'missionary baptist'. I'd say where he's pulling it out of but I'd probably get a warning ...



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:03 AM
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Originally posted by autowrench
reply to post by ElohimJD
 

I just love it when you all make these broad statements of fact with not a thing to back it up. How do you know this to be fact? Have you been there, saw for yourself?
In the Bible the word for God in the Hebrew that is most often used is Elohim. It is a plural noun. Today it is popular to say it means plural of Majesty. However the form of the word, Eloh-im, is plural. The word for God in the singular sense is El, which is used most often in describing a God's characteristics or attributes. El Eyon, El Shaddai, (The Hebrew word shaddai comes from the root word 'breast'. Literally translated it would mean 'many-breasted one'.)
In the Hebrew when Elohim is when used of the true God it is used singular, as a composite unity, when it is used of other Gods it is used in the plural.

May I ask where is the Mother here in the abode of the Divine?

1. Doth not wisdom cry? and understanding put forth her voice?

2. She standeth in the top of high places, by the way in the places of the paths.

3. She crieth at the gates, at the entry of the city, at the coming in at the doors.

4. Unto you, O men, I call; and my voice is to the sons of man.

5. O ye simple, understand wisdom: and, ye fools, be ye of an understanding heart.

6. Hear; for I will speak of excellent things; and the opening of my lips shall be right things.

7. For my mouth shall speak truth; and wickedness is an abomination to my lips.

8. All the words of my mouth are in righteousness; there is nothing froward or perverse in them.

9. They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.

10. Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold.

11. For wisdom is better than rubies; and all the things that may be desired are not to be compared to it.

12. I, wisdom dwell with prudence, and find out knowledge of witty inventions.


Thank you for your reply,

"I just love it when you all make these broad statements of fact with not a thing to back it up. How do you know this to be fact? Have you been there, saw for yourself?"

Been where? I am unsure what you are asking. What I know to be fact is what has been revealed to mankind through God's end time prophets. God revealed the truth of the 144,000 to God's Church, as I am in God's Church I received this truth. You do not have to believe it and if my tone is putting you off this much, you should ignor my posts. I did not come here to anger you, just to shard God's truth with you while there is still some time. I am not expecting anyone to believe me, unlesss the words I say reveal the spirit in me.

Elohim

Great job explaining this to others! You are 100% correct Elohim is a plural name, like all the members of the Smith family are refferred to as Smiths, so all the members of the God family (El) are reffered to as Elohim. Currently there are only 2 members of this family as perfect spirit beings, but soon that will change with the resurrection of the 144,000 at the sounding of the 7th trumpet and the appearing of Jesus Christ.

Divine Mother?

God is neither male nor female, He (or I suppose it is better to use "it" rather then He) is spirit, He is both male and female. He created mankind as male and female due to physical properties needed in a physical realm, but God is both mother and father. In fact the marriage union was created for the very purpose of teaching men the feminie aspects of the spirit of God, and to teach women the masculine aspects of the spirit of God. There is no other member that is the "mother" counterpart to God's "father". There is ONE GOD ALMIGHTY CREATOR. Male and famale are two sides of the same coin and God is both in one.

Also the scriptures you quoted are in refferance to wisdom, which is the mind of God, the spirit of God, the "Holy Spirit" it is not a seperate being, but simply the power of God, the mind of God, the wisdom of God. Wisdom is normally assigned a feminie angle, just as Creator is normally assigned a masculine angle. But God is Wisdom, so these scriptures actually proove my previous statement that God is both male and female as there are scriptures that reffer to both regarding God.

I hope this helps,

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:10 AM
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Originally posted by EricD

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
The laity do, but youre the goyim, you get the exoteric teaching. Priests, bishops, cardinals etc. get esoteric Luciferian teachings behind closed doors. Also, praying for the dead and believing you can absolve the sins of the dead is pagan. Wake up dude, if you want to serve Jesus Christ then serve him only, pray only to him and you don't need a priest to absolve you of sins Jesus does that as he is the high priest of the order of Melchisidek. I've seen Popes flash enough masonic symbols with their fingers to send shivers up my spine.

You should look up Walter Veith's videos on Youtube and watch them. He was a catholic but converted to protestant when he realized what he was involved with.


Are Veith's videos the proof of these claims?

Do you have anything else?

BTW, I'm not being snarky, I'm actually going to hop over to YouTube and check out the videos.


Eric


The proof is in the prophecies bro. Those prophecies tell you exactly who the Anti-Christ-Whore of Babylon-False Prophet are. The only thing they do not tell you is who identity of the Son of Perdition is because it is written that no one shall know him until he claims the throne of God and sits in the mercy seat.

Watch this:

the Man behind the Mask



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:40 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
you don't need a priest to absolve you of sins

You'd best take that up with Christ. IF you believe the bible literally that is ...

Forgiveness of sins

Since he would not always be with the Church visibly, Christ gave this power to other men so the Church, which is the continuation of his presence throughout time (Matt. 28:20), would be able to offer forgiveness to future generations. He gave his power to the apostles, and it was a power that could be passed on to their successors and agents, since the apostles wouldn’t always be on earth either, but people would still be sinning.

God had sent Jesus to forgive sins, but after his resurrection Jesus told the apostles, "‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21–23). (This is one of only two times we are told that God breathed on man, the other being in Genesis 2:7, when he made man a living soul. It emphasizes how important the establishment of the sacrament of penance was.)

The Commission

Christ told the apostles to follow his example: "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you" (John 20:21). Just as the apostles were to carry Christ’s message to the whole world, so they were to carry his forgiveness: "Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven" (Matt. 18:18).



He was a catholic but converted to protestant when he realized what he was involved with.

Poor guy got confused, eh? Here's a protestant minister who converted to Catholic ...
Dr. Scott Hahn


Watch this:the Man behind the Mask

An hour and 35 mInutes of easily disproven bunk like what you've been posting? Um ... no.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 10:46 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by daslobo
 





PS. Catholics do not worship Mary. We only ask her to pray for us. See my post above.


The laity do, but youre the goyim, you get the exoteric teaching. Priests, bishops, cardinals etc. get esoteric Luciferian teachings behind closed doors. Also, praying for the dead and believing you can absolve the sins of the dead is pagan. Wake up dude, if you want to serve Jesus Christ then serve him only, pray only to him and you don't need a priest to absolve you of sins Jesus does that as he is the high priest of the order of Melchisidek. I've seen Popes flash enough masonic symbols with their fingers to send shivers up my spine.

You should look up Walter Veith's videos on Youtube and watch them. He was a catholic but converted to protestant when he realized what he was involved with.


I'm going to leave the first part alone because I think you're confusing religions. I've talked to priests that have served in dozens of countries and at the Vatican. I've never heard any of them talk about Satanic leanings. The only evil I heard them talk about was post Vatican II when the priests drifted towards spiritualism and moral relativism.

No Catholics pray for the dead, they pray to God to accept the souls of the departed into his Kingdom. What could you possibly have against that?



If you check that link from my previous post you can look at the section on confession (reconciliation) and see that it says very clearly


Only God forgives sin


Priests do not forgive your sins. The recite a prayer for you and anything they do within that sacrament is done in the name of The Father.

You've obviously got an ax to grind against my religion. You seem to get a little enjoyment out of Catholic bashing. I don't take any offense, trust me, there are plenty of things that I don't like about my religion. I'm just providing you with information so the criticisms you level are at least true.

Cheers.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 11:42 AM
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It is not a provacation, all I am asking to hear the opinion with people who believe in the rapture whether they think Chatholics will be part of it too?

Of course people will say not true and come up with lots of views, fine but here I would rather listen to what believers think as a more specialist thread to narrow down opinion. But does not mean I won't accept other views either, feel free.

In the end it is God's choice, maybe he raptures not just individuals but friends and family to maybe make it an easier transition, maybe whole cities or towns depending how it pans out even countries.

Have you seen people appear and dissapear lately? Well have to say seen a few Chatholics too that have, maybe its my imagination or some grandiose deception towards me or something, maybe its an ongoing thing that randomly happens and we don't know the day or hour or time and is not technically a global one day event as we are lead to believe.


edit on 27-1-2012 by The time lord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by ElohimJD

Originally posted by schadenfreude
reply to post by Essan
 


This is a belief mostly held by Jehovah Witnesses, and therefore not a viable argument.


Rev 14:1-5

“Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.”

This is a belief taken from the word of God as found in the Holy Bible. Just because the JW believe this does not make it a JW doctrine. It IS scriptoral, black and white fact.

What will help you all in the long run is understanding that what Christianity teaches as what happens after death is not scriptoral, in this age (the last 6000 years) it was God plan to only draw a few individuals to salvation for the purpose of the Kingdom of God/ Temple of God/Body of Christ/Church of God that only 144,000 plus Jesus Chrsit would be saved in this age IS God's perfect plan... but not all of it The understanding of why this is, how it is and what the plan is in the future for every human being that has ever lived regardless of race, religion, culture etc. is the truely amazing truth of the word of God, but the time for the salvation of all mankind is not of this age, but of the ages to come.

Currently as I write this there is only God the Father and Jesus Christ the son as immortal spirit beings in the Elohim (family) of God. By June of this year there will be 144,000 more members all tranformed in the twinkling of an eye; first those who are dead and in the ground (Mary, Matt, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, Moses, Aaron, Solomon, David, Joseph etc.) then those who are alive still (extreamly few alive today are sealed into this group) to join Christ at the very moment he begins to return to Earth to rule mankind as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.

A good measuring stick is this:
WWJD

Christianity uses this phrase all the time, it means "What would Jesus Do?" Well the best way to know this answer is to ask yourself "what did Jesus Do?

Things Jesus Did:
- Kept the 7th day Sabbath all his life on Earth (Saturday).
- Kept the annual Holy Days including Passover every year of his life.
- Never eat unclean foods (pig, shrimp, catfish etc.)
- Did not want any religious leader to be called "father" for there is but one Father in Heaven.
- Prayed to One God Almighty.
- Never had anything crafted in the image of something in Heaven (whether prayed to or not).

Things current Christians Do:
- Keep a Sunday sabbath as the Babylonians did in Sun god worship.
- Keep pagan holidays like the winter solstice (Saturalia/ Christmas), and the Feast of Easter (fertility goddess)
- Eat whatever foods they want regardless of God telling them they were never created to be consumed by man.
- Call there leader pope (father) or priest "father".
- Pray to a trinity of gods compossed of God, Jesus and a "holy spirit".
- Ware gold crosses around their necks to symbolize Jesus Christ (if he had died in a guillitine, would Christians all ware gold guillitines?), use chanting style memorized prayers holding some beads in their hand. Also craft all sorts of statues representing people they believe are in Heaven right now, and gold molten images of Jesus Christ on a cross.

God Bless,



You do realise that with the new covenant Jesus fulfilled the law, so we are now able to eat what was then unclean because he made it clean.

Pre-Ressurection Jesus is different from the Resurrected Jesus because he defeated death and was able to change the Old Law. He kept the laws before his death and then became the sacrifice him self.

-Since then no circumcision is needed
-We can eat what we like
-No need for animal sacrifices
-Gentiles can be saved outside the Jewish tribal lines, we now live in the times of the Gentiles.
-He can open the Seals, Pre-Resurrection Jesus could not.
-We are no longer under the Law but Faith in Christ, because man is not pure enough to keep all the laws

and probably lots of other things too.
edit on 27-1-2012 by The time lord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by The time lord
I am asking to hear the opinion with people who believe in the rapture whether they think Chatholics will be part of it too?


If there really were to be a 'rapture' then all christians in the state of grace before God would be invited ... Catholic, Episcopal, Lutheran, Methodist, etc. However, since the notion of a rapture is NOT biblical, and it's based on the cult teachings of failed anglican priest Nelson Darby, that no one has to worry about being 'left behind' .... EVERYONE is going to be left behind. This is how it has been with Christianity since the very beginning. No one gets a 'get out of tribulaton free' card.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 01:13 PM
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The Great Tribulation, written about in Revelation is the wrath of God poured out onto a wicked and sinful world.

Rev. 15:1 And I saw another sign in Heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up wth wrath of God.
Rev 15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Old Testament reference to who the wrath of God is reserved for:

Job 21:30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath.
Nahum 1:2 God is jealous and the Lord revengeth; He revengeth and is furious, the Lord will take vengence on His adversaries, and He reverveth wrath for His enemies.

Old Testament reference to the "catching away of the faithful":

Zephaniah 2:1-3 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the Lord come upon you, before the day of the Lord's anger come upon you seek ye the Lord, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought His judgement; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the Lord's anger.

The nation not desired? : This is not a reference to Israel. Israel is the "apple of God's eye", God's wife, God's chosen people. in Matthew 15:24-28, Jesus states he was sent for the lost sheep of Israel.

Who then is the nation not desired?

Romans 10:19 But I say, did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by thay that are a not people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.

New Testament scripture indicating the faithful are not meant for the wrath of God during the great tribulation:

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.
1Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, Whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ.

Throughout the New Testament we are told, as followers of Jesus, we will suffer trials and tribulation and be reviled for His name's sake, but I believe through scripture, we are promised we will not suffer the wrath of God during the Great Tribulation.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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If a child does not believe in the rapture or has even heard of it and it is something people began to understand now, as even the prophets who were speaking through God did not fully understood his message does not mean you have to pray to be in the rapture in order to be included.

Either way rapture or not I think both and other sects will make it and avoid judgement in the Tribulation, hope that will be the case.
edit on 27-1-2012 by The time lord because: (no reason given)


If it does happen and we are in it then bonus fantastic, if not then nothing to lose but a few arguements but that is not really a problem, not everyone knows about a rapture of sorts does mean God will condem people for not knowing, the main messages is to believe in Christ and then it is up to him from then on.
edit on 27-1-2012 by The time lord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by troubleshooter

Originally posted by schadenfreude

Originally posted by troubleshooter
The Rapture doctrine is just another distraction from what Christians are asked to do...

Jesus said to His desciples "...this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come." (Matt 24:14)

...but everything else gets proclaimed except the Gospel.


I have to disagree with you slightly here too, but only slightly! I agree the gospel has been watered down ad nauseum, but what has also been watered down is the christians FOCUS. What were the jews looking for in their captivity? A deliverer, right? and where were they to go? the promised land, yes? They lost their focus, and wanted to return to "the world they knew, Egypt".

What is our focus? What is OUR "blessed hope"? Heaven, and our escape is the rapture. Those that are heavenly minded, don't care much for worldly things. Their heart is settled on the one most important to them, Jesus Christ.

Now you can say how the gospel has been watered down, but let me reply, how often have you personally gave the gospel message? (Not judging here) It's stated that only 2% of christians witness their faith to others, 2 percent! That's repugnant. I suggest that if we have a heavenly mindset, then that number would be significantly higher, but alas we're more concerned with attendance and "bake sales" and being politically correct rather than calling out our "brothers" when they mess up. (and most "christians" use the "judge not lest ye be judged" hammer to bludgeon someone to death with.

My only point here is that we do what our hearts are focused on, we make time for what we WANT to do. if we have a heavenly mindset, we act accordingly, we have focus. personally, i think there is a strong correlation between the jews in the wilderness of the exodus, and the christians in the "last days". and considering how biblically ignorant of bible prophecy most of my brothers/sisters are,(not condemning you personally) then that just reinforces my idea of a connection between the exodus and the end of days, and the connection between the two peoples.

Israel is now a secular national identity no different than New Guinea or Venezuela.
Their forebears were once the people of the Lord but only a remnant are now.
The law and the prophets prophecied until John the Baptist and since then the Good News is proclaimed.

The Dispensationalists aka pre-mill rapturists decided that some prophecies were not fulfilled in Messiah but in a future Israel that had rejected their own Messiah. British political will directed by these beliefs resettled Jews in Israel.

It has become increasingly evident to me that redundant Old Testament prophecies have been given new life in the interests of an anti-christ agenda and Christian groups have stupidly preached it for them.

It is a case of forming an interpretation of prophecies and then fulfilling them by political will and manipulated conflict.

The people of the Lord are not represented by any denomination, religious or national group but are one body by their individual and collective union with the Spirit. The Spirit knows who are the Lord's people and His people know who they are. This invisible group includes a remnant of Israel who by faith have recognized their Messiah.


By saying that Israel is just like any other country, you are effectively discounting Daniel ch 9 entirely. The angel Gabriel spoke saying 70 times 7 weeks, or 490 years have been determined for Israel's punishment. From the declaration of the rebuilding of the second temple, (King Artaxerxes), till Jesus was crucified, was 483 years. That leaves seven years left. This was a Godly mandate, these last seven years are what constitutes the Tribulation period that precedes the Millennial kingdom which lasts a thousand years.

You say that Israel is irrelevant, but forget that the tribulation itself doesn't "officially" start until Israel, (yes Israel) signs a peace treaty with the anti-christ, mentioned in Dan 9:27. THIS is what starts the tribulation, not the rapture. The point here using scripture, is that it is Israel's blindness by accepting a false messiah that kick starts this last seven year period. Jesus himself said as much in John 5:42-43 But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you.

43I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. You regulating Israel as just any other country is typically "replacement theology", and there's nothing biblical about it. John Hgee tries the same thing. God says what he means & means what he says, so why not just believe what the word says? how hard is that?



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by biggmoneyme
 


The short answer is because Israel didn't exist in 1870.
Then you have Dan 12:4 where the angel tells Daniel that "knowledge would increase" in the last days.
The context here is knowledge of scripture, not knowledge in general.
An example of this "increased knowledge" is the PS 83 discovery a few years ago.
If you studied any endtime scripture at all, you'd see problems with the whole Gog/Magog war scenario, but a few years ago a man named Bill salus wrote a book called "Israelistine" explaining the missing pieces of Ez 38-39 were found in Ps. 83, a prophecy btw, which hasn't been fulfilled yet, which explains why the missing nations don't attack Israel during Gog/Magog war.

The other explanation is found in 2nd Peter 3:3-4 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as [they were] from the beginning of the creation.

So the animosity of those against the rapture isn't surprising, it's foretold. It's also irritating as hell when ppl will continue to lie rather than research the links that disagree with their opinion.

Does it sound haughty to suggest a thing? I don't think so, seeing as how I haven't heard anyone discuss where the wrath of God fits in all of this. Then you have the whole "seventh/last trumpet" argument I read in another post, which just shows that no one here reads anything about the jewish wedding ceremony (and it's correlation to the rapture) as well as the "last trumpet" which is during Rosh Hashannah, and is also known as "the day of the awakening blast." (Even though the last trumpet mentioned in Revelations was written 20 years LATER then the other verse they're referring to...

But hey, wth do I know?



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


First let me say I just LOVE your spirit. WRONG WRONG WRONG, yeah very teachable there.

Now to address your post.

I find it hilarious that you quote 2nd Tim 3 to me when that entire chapter is about the last days, as if to prove the point there is no rapture.1This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
And all of this is b/c the church HAS denied the power of God, and many have turned away, b/c as one poster said the gospel isn't preached in the church any more, and amen to that.

Concerning your mentioning of 2nd Tim 4:3, that sounds an AWFUL lot like 2nd Thess 2:3Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

The "falling away" or great apostasy, whichever name you prefer, is what was mentioned in the verse I just quoted you, that parallels 2nd tim 4. What you fail to see here though is THAT DAY, is a greek definitive article for "THE", it's talking about a specific day here, not more than one, not "any" day, but one specific day.(Can you guess what that "day" is?) You are aware that a forged letter was written in Paul's name, saying the christians missed "the day of the lord" and 2nd Thess was in response to quell their fears?

". For some people to mistakenly believe that somehow they are better than all these others and that they will be spared that which the others had to go through .. that's insanely arrogant!

I think it's ignorant to assume that God will pour out his wrath on his own children! Considering that God said no such thing would happen, 1 Thess 5:9"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" or 1thess 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Need I continue?

So, we've established that his children WON'T go through His wrath, the next question is then. Is the tribulation a time of wrath? Let's see....Rev 15:1 Then I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvelous, seven angels who had seven plagues, which are the last, because in them the wrath of God is finished.

If it is finished in chapter 15, then when does it BEGIN? Oh wait, I'm being arrogant again aren't I? Because I take God's word at face value?

You think I have rapturitis, and that it's easy? You think giving up TV and the like is easy? What about xmas b/c I see it as a pagan holiday? You think making myself MORE seperate from this world doesn't give me "loon" status not only to the ppl of this world, but my own brothers & sisters in Christ? lmbo, yeah ok, ur right. I got it "easy".

When Christ returns everyone will see him, yeah about that...Rev 3:3Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Or this one...1thess 5:4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Now how do you get around the whole "every eye shall see him" argument when he is also coming "like a thief"? How many thieves do you know that announce their coming before they steal?

Unless of course, these are two separate instances which He is talking here.

Mastt 24 is talking about the Tribulation period, you can see that by reading Rev 6 and comparing them side by side, which I already stated to another poster here. "Great Tribulation" is when satan physically posses the antichrist, indwelt, and tries to kill Israel before they can flee to Petra (Bosrah) in Jordan.

lol@ Paul Thigpen. Yeah, a "Catholic scholar" holds any value for me when catholics don't even believe in the rapture in the FIRST place, that's rich!

Maybe you should stop reading what men say about the bible, and just read the bible for itself, how about that?


edit on 27-1-2012 by schadenfreude because: typos



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by schadenfreude
reply to post by lonewolf19792000
 


ok, you're obviously not a member of the OSAS (Once Saved Always saved) doctrine. Have you ever taken the time to look it up?

gracethrufaith.com... I think does an excellent job of breaking it down.


I'm a missionary baptist and yes i've looked and nowhere in the bible is it written once saved always saved. Anyone that says that obviously failed to read Acts and Romans. Read the 7 letters to the Churches in Revelation. Jesus specifically says he has something against all the churches except Philadelphia. Our age is the Church of Laodicia. Jesus says unless you return to your first love (Him) he will remove their candlesticks.

Jesus also said there would be many false prophets coming in his names and performing signs and wonders but that they were not one of his and that you would know their fruits by their works.

I see catholic priests having sex with little boys which is not only pedophilia, but homosexuality and fornication too. Now, i dunno about you but i read in the book of Acts that when youre saved Christ's Holy Spirit comes and dwells in you and gives you the option to no longer sin should you choose it. The catholic priests are also drunkards which the Council of Jerusalem establsihed we are to not partake of strong drink because it leads to debauchery. They worship Mary as the queen of heaven and make her part of the Trinity and call her the "Queen of Heaven" which is really the goddess Astarte/Ishtar.

Do you think Christ had sex with little boys? Do you think he was homosexual? Do you think he fornicated? Do you think Christ was a drunkard? If you call yourself a christian and you do those things you are taking God's name in vain and are a blasphemer. I don't think those were the kinds of miracles the holy Spirit was supposed to work.

You want to see who the whore of babylon is? Watch these videos:

Battle of the Bibles

how the R.C.C. changed the word of God

the crime of the anti-christ (R.C.C.)


lonewolf,

OSAS is a lie, a heresy.

You are going to have to change, God wants us all to believe the same.

You are commiting calumny profaning the priesthood and regurgitating
falsehoods about Catholicism that have been explained to you and everybody here a 100 times.

1.5% of priests have been accused, not everyone accused of a crime
is guilty. What of the rest of the priesthood?

An event prophesied in Revelation 6, the Great Warning will bring you
to the fullness of faith.

People who are anti-Catholic are silly, telling others what the Church
teaches. You gotta change....


prayers,


colbe



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