Originally posted by MamaJ
You say you are an Atheist and do not like organized Religion, yet that is what Athesim is.

You do not believe in God if you call yourself an Atheist. To me....that is pretty BOLD. For one to say there is no God is like saying Hey, I know everything...there is no God. I am a know it all. When in fact you have no clue if there is or not. To think we are alone in this Vast Universe with so much we cannot see in a mystical sense is just ...crazy to me.

I have studied for many years the Word and other Word's and their roots. Everything in life with time does get distorted and man gets a hold of it and completely messes with facts for control and greed. This is LIFE. This is any religion. Yes... Christianity and OTHER Religions have been used as a crutch for bad things....and no it isn't right. However with anything...there is good and bad. It is also good. Look at the good....focus on the good.

Religions do good for people and they transform themselves to do good deeds for others. It happens believe it or not. In the mean time...try not to think that you ...know....there is no God. KNOW that you do not KNOW.

For one to not KNOW if there is or not is not an Atheist. Atheists... well...they believe in many things. There is really no such thing in my opinion as a true Atheist. It is ..once again someone taking their own Religion and creating a cult of non believers. Like THEY KNOW.

I do not believe in God, and I know he does not exist. The god spouted by religions is no a god anyways, the one they bow down to and worship is plagued by many horrible human traits and lacks all godliness features.

I know for a fact that, God as religions put the do not exist.

Now, if ancient aliens were true I would find that easier to believe. They came, helped us, and left, from there we made our own rituals and ideas from their coming while they provided us no insights, sounds bout right for us.

No one denied that once in a while the catholic religion does something good, but just because an abusive husband once in a while does something decent does not excuse their behavior, nor should he not be convicted of harming another human.

It doesn't matter how much you polish a turd, it's still a turd...

Pred...

Originally posted by MamaJ

Ok...so NOW you KNOW there is NO God and he does not exist. So....if I have a question you will be sure to answer being that YOU KNOW IT ALL? Really?

The God spouted by Religions is a God THEY believe in . If you went to a church and sat down and interviewed each person from each denomination whether it be Christian or Jew Or Muslim or Agnostic...and the list goes on. If you asked each person what and or who God is to them they would each have a different view. SO.... You make no sense to me when you say " The God spouted by Religions is no good". How do you know that what was written should be taken at face value. Maybe you meant to say the God some people talk about in many Religions is a God I do not understand.

Ancient Aliens you say came and helped us....dang. YOU KNOW THIS TOO???? I believe in Aliens but that is as far as I can go because the facts are not there as far as what they did to help us. They sure aint helping anymore....why is that?

Each person is good and bad. This is Universal Law.

Yes, that is what an atheist means, that I do not believe in any god of religion.

I agree with the fact that each different person worships a different god, but that only comes from ignorance. The bible which religion is based after doesn't really have a ton of leeway of the god it represents from the bible and that s another thing I find funny about religious people.... Their god always seems to hate the same people as they do.

I do not know when I claimed that I knew for a fact that the ancient alien theory was true, I claimed it would be more believable then this fictitious bearded man that lives in the sky...I am also a stone mason with extensive experience in working with granite and to think that 'ancient' people carved granite the way they did is crazy. Some of the buildings/statues/figures that they built out of granite would be damn near impossible today, and we are talking about people in the bronze era.

That, I do know for a fact.

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187
Any thoughts?

Some of the teachings of Christianity are all cheerful and light and love everybody, but not all. The Christ of Luke, for instance, teaches that following him will -- and is supposed to -- tear families and nations apart, setting the world on fire. It's not all happy hippie-dippy flowers and sunshine.

Besides, when somebody's eternal soul is at stake, which is much more important than their transient lives on Earth (in their opinion), sometimes the best thing to do is burn them at that stake so they'll have a chance to repent.

Originally posted by predator0187

Originally posted by Frira

So, you believe your lack of experience with God is of greater value than the experience others have had?

I believe you were about to accuse the religious of having an exaggerated sense of worth?

I was raised catholic, baptized, went through the steps and went catholic school, it wasn't until I looked into what religion is and read their holy book that I became an atheist.

When you see what catholicism has put hamanity through, the amount it has held back advancement through science and the amount of lives it has taken simply because others have different beliefs you start to get a different picture of this so called 'loving religion'.

So your answer to my question is, "Yes."

That was my point.

You don't believe in the spiritual Reality but mention how close a religion is to Satan? I dare you to find your way out out of that inconsistency!

I also dare you to find a profession which has access to children with a different child predatory rate than that of Catholic Priests. Look it up. Scout leaders, Day Camp Counselors, Doctors, Coaches, School Teachers, and so on. Child predators go into those careers or professions so as to have access to their prey-- NOT as a result of the teachings of the profession (duh!).

The Catholic Church (and the Boy Scouts) are particularly singled out not because of the prevalence of child molesters, but because each of those organizations attempted to cover up the problem.

The Catholic Church went one step further, arrogantly believing that they could "heal" a child predator combined with the (also arrogant) belief of a short-lived (1950's and 1960's) teaching that Priests did not sin.

The Catholic Churches where I live are busting at the seams-- so full are they-- and the Priests are overwhelmed to the point that there is a severe clergy shortage. Your assertion to the contrary is unsupportable by facts.

Facts from whom? You?

Facts are facts. You gave an opinion without facts.

That, also, was my point.

I will admit there are pedophiles in lots of places in society, but nowhere covers their tracks or pretends like nothing is wrong quite like the catholic church. The fact that they know something is wrong and children are being molested and then move the priest to another parish to have access to all new kids is a criminal act.

Which was NOT what you said in the OP. That is why I corrected you.

Beginning to see how this "fact" thing works?

I fear you do not, because you restated what I wrote, but left out the facts.

Inconvenient?

Anybody else would be a convicted criminal, but not anybody to do with the catholic church as they are somehow above the law.

Really? So those pedophile priests do not go to prison?

Is that what you think? Show us the data.

You say "good" and "evil," but not "good and bad." That is intriguing, since "evil" usually connotes a spiritual valuation.

None the less, your argument, here, demonstrates a perception that religion is about law, and an utter unfamiliarity with spiritual teachings, practices, and theory-- not only of religion, but of cultures throughout history and throughout the globe.

I despise the forms of religion which seek to dictate to or threaten others into conformity-- they, too, demonstrate an ignorance of God, of the spiritual Reality in which we live, and of which all humans are, by nature.

Since you do the same-- I cannot distinguish them from you except how you identify yourself. Is that for good or is that for evil that you, too, see those who believe differently than you as less than you?

I do not believe in good and evil. Just because I say them in a sentence does not all of a sudden chance my spiritual stance, sometimes I say 'goddammit' does that mean I have to believe in god to say it? No.

So you're claiming it was an ejaculatory statement in paragraph form?

Just admit your inconsistent thought and come back when thought predominates.

Originally posted by predator0187

Originally posted by SavedOne
God by definition is loving and gracious, not hateful and vengeful. A hateful and vengeful God is not God at all, but something else entirely (Satan, etc.) Clearly Jesus did not teach that God is hateful and vengeful, so one must conclude that whatever hateful acts from the OT that were attributed to God were done so incorrectly (the Bible was written by men after all, and men like to justify their actions).

Luke 21:8
He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them.

Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but with a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man's foes will be those of his own household. He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy. (Matthew 10:34-37)

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Do you think I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division; for henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three; they will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. (Luke 12:51-53)

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...the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church. (1 Corinthians 14:34-35)

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If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple. (Luke 14:26)

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Well that must be the loving part of god, right?

The bible shows how evil god is, I mean really, he kills millions of people and 'Satan' kills 2, I am happy he is so loving.

Think about it, if you so much as think about another persons god, you should be punished with death.

God is not loving...he is a jealous, vengeful god.

Pred...

Oh!

Jesus is a pacifist when you want to claim Him as such. (In your OP)

Jesus is a warrior when you want to claim Him as such. (In this post).

For goodness sake!

How do you stand being you?

Originally posted by Frira
So your answer to my question is, "Yes."

That was my point.

You have no point. Only to religious people does belief matter, I could care less if you thought Harry Potter was god, your thoughts, but, when people die from your beliefs, that's when other should get upset.

Facts are facts. You gave an opinion without facts.

That, also, was my point.

Umm, you do realize that we are talking about religion that is based on 'faith' right not facts. So to expect any fact to some out of religion is kind of an oxymoron...

Which was NOT what you said in the OP. That is why I corrected you.

Beginning to see how this "fact" thing works?

I fear you do not, because you restated what I wrote, but left out the facts.

Inconvenient?

So, in order to be factually accurate in your books I must mention all child molesters to make things fair?

You twist my words, or in this case, my lack of words for your benefit? You must be religious.

FACT: The catholic church knew their priests were molesting children, raping them and also raping nuns, and they moved the priests out of the parishes where the accusations came from to another, knowingly covering up illegal activity...

Anybody else would be a convicted criminal, but not anybody to do with the catholic church as they are somehow above the law.

Really? So those pedophile priests do not go to prison?

Is that what you think? Show us the data.

Your one of those? You ask for my proof while providing me none of your own. You want proof? The pope knew about these pedophile priests and kept his mouth shut and moved them around. Criminal activity.

Some go to jail, the ones they cannot hide anymore, what about the ones that they hide well?

So you're claiming it was an ejaculatory statement in paragraph form?

Just admit your inconsistent thought and come back when thought predominates.

Why because I said the word evil? Sometimes I say Jesus Christ, doesn't mean he's my savior.

You fight ad hominem attacks rather than fighting what this thread was actually about. You can call my thoughts anything you want, or me for that matter, but that doesn't change what has been said.

I might as well end this with 'you're stupid' just so I begin to match wits with you.

Pred...

Originally posted by predator0187

Originally posted by Frira
So your answer to my question is, "Yes."

That was my point.

You have no point. Only to religious people does belief matter, I could care less if you thought Harry Potter was god, your thoughts, but, when people die from your beliefs, that's when other should get upset.

Facts are facts. You gave an opinion without facts.

That, also, was my point.

Umm, you do realize that we are talking about religion that is based on 'faith' right not facts. So to expect any fact to some out of religion is kind of an oxymoron...

No!

You made an implication which I knew was contrary to the the facts-- and in THAT, you are expected to be able to support or retract. I know you cannot support the implication, because your focus was too biased and too narrow.

If facts contradict your argument and you still hold to your assertion, then your are ranting, or crazy, or both-- in any case, you have departed from reason. I called you back to reason.

It is not for me to prove your lack of facts; it is for you to supply the data, or to correct your assertion after you research indicates your were mistaken.

This is your thread-- ill-conceived as it is-- so stand by it and support your own words, or don't make the mistake of pulling stuff out of your donkey. Did you expect the religious to simply let you get by with your OP?

If the religious did object, you planned to accuse them of not be pacifists like their leader or of being intolerant as their leader taught them?

But see, I pegged you on that before you got that gun out of the holster.

Mixing metaphors... This is not my first rodeo; and you are sucking hind teat.

Which was NOT what you said in the OP. That is why I corrected you.

Beginning to see how this "fact" thing works?

I fear you do not, because you restated what I wrote, but left out the facts.

Inconvenient?

So, in order to be factually accurate in your books I must mention all child molesters to make things fair?

You twist my words, or in this case, my lack of words for your benefit? You must be religious.

Twisting? Let's quote you!

But, as we all know it, the catholic religion is closer to Satan than it is away from it. With all the molestation charges and the rape accusations, it is a wonder why there are even followers of that faith anymore.

Using your reasoning, it is wonder that children go to school, or that people go to doctors-- since teachers and doctors have about the same rates of pedophilia as do clergy (Baptist or Roman Catholic, for that matter).

In my life, I have had TWO male doctors "hit on" me. I am a heterosexual male-- and I did not like it one bit-- and know how to take care of myself even when the power is unequal and in favor of the predator. Yet, I do not start threads implying being a doctor is the cause for so many predators being physicians.

It is ludicrous.

Yet, you felt comfortable using that exact same argument, ludicrous as it is, because it suited your purpose and because you lacked the wherewithal to recognize your own absurdity.

I called you out on it-- so man-up.

Twisted your words? Shame on you! Man-up!

Is that what you think? Show us the data.

Your one of those? You ask for my proof while providing me none of your own.

Yes! I am one who expects facts to support a claim!

You made the claim. I challenged you to supply data to support your claim. It is not mine to defend-- it is yours. Welcome to the rules of reasoning, in which data is expected to support ones claim. This is your thread-- support it or retract it.

If I said that you are purple in color, it is not incumbent upon you to prove that you are not-- it would be incumbent upon me to provide pictures of your purple skin.

Some go to jail, the ones they cannot hide anymore, what about the ones that they hide well?

Who? Names? Dates? You really are purple, aren't you?

So you're claiming it was an ejaculatory statement in paragraph form?

Just admit your inconsistent thought and come back when thought predominates.

Why because I said the word evil? Sometimes I say Jesus Christ, doesn't mean he's my savior.

You fight ad hominem attacks rather than fighting what this thread was actually about. You can call my thoughts anything you want, or me for that matter, but that doesn't change what has been said.

I might as well end this with 'you're stupid' just so I begin to match wits with you.

Pred...

I made no ad hominem attack. I merely corrected you-- and it really ticked you off.

Tough. Take your lumps. Man-up.

predator0187,

This is a difficult post for me to write. My hope, my expectation, on ATS is to learn things through discussions with people. I hope I'm wrong, and I hope you'll convince me otherwise, but I think I have to give up on you, at least in this subject area.

In the OP you wrote that you were anti-religion. It seems that that has become such an ingrained part of you that you can't consider facts opposed to your belief.

Frira wrote that he had been hit on by two homosexual doctors. You dismiss that statement while calling him homophobic. You say his story is crazy, laughable, hilarious, and doubtful. You insult him and imply that he is a liar. You do all that without any evidence that he is lying.

You are called on repeatedly to show some evidence for your assertions and you do not, nor do you consider rethinking your position.

In your most recent post you cite crooksandliars, who are reporting on a story about to be aired. Unfortunately you don't check the document you are posting about (at least I hope you didn't check it) so you didn't see the falsity of the statements made, which you posted here.

I don't believe you are being open-minded, reasonable, or just. Please show me that I am wrong.

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As you guys apparently can't speak to each other in a civil and sensible manner without wanting to resort to personal attacks, thread closed, pending further staff review.

Further bickering of this kind in other threads will lead to more action being taken.