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Monterey Park officers fatally shoot man 10 TIMES at Carl

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posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by VicMT09


This happened yesterday, the officer shot the suspect 10 times. Even though you see the suspect in the video taking a swing at his partner , do you think he could of used another way of bringing him down? like releasing the dog at him. What do you guys think about this? Note this video is not shot by me.

www.youtube.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


Escalation, de-escalation of force training dictates the K-9 should have been deployed before using deadly force. The dog handler choose to kill a person rather than risk his K-9.

Manslaughter.




posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by r3axion
 





Then we have somebody obviously cracked out or on PCP, busting out windows with a heavy object and potentially causing injury to the restaurant patrons. Then he decides to start swinging at police. The taser didn't phase him, which is a dead giveaway to his intoxication with something that makes him impervious to pain (which is why I mentioned PCP).


now yes they shot him while he was on the ground, now we can't see what he is doing once he hits the ground but if he was all cracked out on PCP then usually from what i have seen is that people on PCP can't feel pain and there brain doesn't know they are dead right away so he possibly im not saying he was but possibly was trying to get back up and attack the officers again

im saying the officers had every right to use lethal force in this sitiuation



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:04 PM
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though it was excessive, he deserved it. you can clear hear cops say to get his hands up. the guy just ignores them and tries to walk away. i don't know if one of the cops fired a taser but right after, the guy tries to take a swing at the cops. result being the flurry of gun shots. these cops will claim self defense and the case will get closed.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:05 PM
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They used a TASER on the perp first, but he just pulled the bars out. Then then perp turned and took a stance that looked very much like he was going to swing the object at the officer. Then they shot him.

In this case, I think it was completely justified. If the less lethal option (TASER) didn't work and the perp still looks like he intends to attack, the lethal option is all the police have left. And as someone said, police don't shoot to wound at that point. Putting aside liability issues, they can't risk shooting someone high on PCP in the leg and watching that person continue to attack.

I really hope the police hate on ATS doesn't blind people to what was going on here. It's probably one of the only times I've actually agreed with police actions in a video I've seen posted here, but I'm sure people will still freak out over it. It's like some members expect police to only respond with force after an officer has already been maimed or killed.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:07 PM
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reply to post by GovtFlu
 


Once he moved towards the cop with the shovel, he put that cop in immediate danger.
It would have taken too long for the dog to respond if his intent had been to strike the office with his weapon.

Sadly, the other office did the right thing.

Most cops use the double tap so most likely the first cop shot him twice. Most likely he was dead but didn't know it.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by GovtFlu

Originally posted by VicMT09


This happened yesterday, the officer shot the suspect 10 times. Even though you see the suspect in the video taking a swing at his partner , do you think he could of used another way of bringing him down? like releasing the dog at him. What do you guys think about this? Note this video is not shot by me.

www.youtube.com
(visit the link for the full news article)


Escalation, de-escalation of force training dictates the K-9 should have been deployed before using deadly force. The dog handler choose to kill a person rather than risk his K-9.

Manslaughter.



This totally confuses me, the dog is inches from the person and foaming at the mouth to do its job, so why not let him have at it first? Granted a dead man is worth far less then a maimed man, but it seems so odd to me that he walked the dog out there to address the situation with the dog, then fired first - why bring the dog?

As for the "threat," this thing has gotten out of hand. Seems we are all here to protect policy enforcement officers, even the ones who seem to watch too much tv. They are all skittish, fearful, can only react to the horrors around them with violence - doesn't this strike anyone as odd?



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by caf1550
 


Well you're entitled to your opinion just as I'm entitled to mine.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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Originally posted by r3axion
Complete bull#. The officer was threatened, the use of the firearm was justified but 10 shots is excessive force by far. 2 or 3 to the leg would have been enough. He kept firing even after he fell to the ground.

Bull#.

Those dudes in the video are retards, too. # aint funny.
edit on 25-1-2012 by r3axion because: (no reason given)


lol yeah when leos train at the shooting ranges, they aim for the legs. have you ever been to a shooting range? have you ever fired a gun? the targets they practice on are usually from waste up. yeah i agree it was excessive but the guy was asking for it.

this was from the video description...

MONTEREY PARK - Police officers Monday morning shot and killed a man who had been breaking windows at a Carl's Jr. restaurant in the 1200 block of Avenida Cesar Chavez, officials said.

Monterey Park Police officers received a call around 9:30 a.m. that a male Hispanic adult was shattering windows with a metal bar at the fast food restaurant, located directly across the street from East Los Angeles College and adjacent to several bustling shopping centers.

When officers arrived they saw patrons of the restaurant running toward them, Los Angeles County Sheriff's Sgt. Pauline Panis said.

Officers tased the suspect, but it was ineffective, she said.

"At that time, he came in close proximity to officers and swung towards the officers twice with the bar. At that time, fearing for their safety, an officer-involved shooting took place," Panis said.

The man was transported to a local hospital, where he was pronounced dead, she said.

More information on the man was not immediately available and there were no other known injuries, Panis said.

Juan Gonzalez, 20, of Commerce, was eating when the suspect, whom he described to be between 20 and 30 years old, casually walked in and out of the restaurant before proceeding to hit each glass pane on the outside of the restaurant with the 3-foot bar.

Gonzalez was seated directly across from the first blow.

"I looked down to my phone and heard a shatter. I
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looked up and (glass) was in my face."

It wasn't until the man broke the second window that Gonzalez and others began running out of the restaurant.

"He managed to break every window before the police got there," he said.

He said the suspect did not say anything throughout the destructive tirade. They said they didn't hear or see anything that might have pointed to a possible motive.

Witnesses said officers demanded the man to get down on the ground before tasing him and eventually shooting him after the suspect lunged at them with the bar.

A few trays of food and cups of coffee were still scattered on a few of the tables Monday evening. The restaurant was closed for the remainder of the day and several employees ready to start their shifts were turned away.

Manager Humberto Mena, who was not working during the time of the incident, did not know when the location would reopen.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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I will start off saying the 10 rounds MAY have been too much - but agreeing with other comments...we weren't there to see the whole story. We can't clearly see what the officers and witnesses saw on the ground. He may have looked to be reaching for another weapon or been trying to get back up - guns don't always stop people the way so many in movies are lead to believe. Trust me on this, I am trained in defensive shooting and have studied thoroughly in cases like this...anyway...I could go on and on and on about what really happens in shootouts for those that haven't been exposed to them in person or don't have or use firearms, or pay attention to news stories of shootings.
But that being the case....shooting him was justified in my opinion.
From what I see...they ordered him to drop the item he was carrying. Which I will point out, he was reported to have been using to bash windows out and threaten to attack people in the restaurant with. In which case he did not comply with the POs order. Instead he tried to walk off then then made, very clearly, a mistake in starting to turn and swing the object at an officer (who did try to attempt to use mace or a tazer in a non lethal attempt to subdue him I might point out - AFTER requesting him to drop the weapon numerous times) - and was then shot for the threatening response. The dog would have been on option - but the dogs are not likely risked (they are officers and are treated just like their two leg counterparts) in a situation where a human or dog would surely be killed. If I was a handler - I wouldn't have risked the dog either. Maybe I like dogs better then people lol.
The officer did what he must. Officers are NOT trained to shoot to maim. They do have to access the situation and take any non-lethal option they can....but once the perp is dumb enough to turn on them...gloves are off and it is shoot center mass....and not legs or arms cowboys....it is center mass for many reasons. Mainly for force of impact, vital organ shock and lastly - not missing and hitting a non-intended accidental target (us).
Agian - maybe 10 rounds too much - but in the heat of the moment - you do what needs done. period. For your safety and those you are there to protect.
By the way...just a note....how do any of you truly know it was just the K9 officer shooting - there were 3 other officers with guns drawn by the way.

Anyway. Peace all. And hopefully you never have to experience anything like this.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:38 PM
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reply to post by Stryc9nine
 


Seeing as I'm a Marine I'd say I'm pretty well acquainted with weapons and target ranges. Thanks for being condescending, though.

Police are not a militarized force (well...they're starting to be..). Their job first and foremost is to apprehend people who commit crimes and throw them in jail, not murder them execution style when they are no longer a threat. There was no reason to keep shooting after he fell. That's when he should have been jumped on and cuffed.

I have common sense, something this officer clearly lacked. This didn't justify taking a human's life.
edit on 25-1-2012 by r3axion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:40 PM
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Originally posted by Wildbob77
reply to post by GovtFlu
 


Once he moved towards the cop with the shovel, he put that cop in immediate danger.
It would have taken too long for the dog to respond if his intent had been to strike the office with his weapon.

Sadly, the other office did the right thing.

Most cops use the double tap so most likely the first cop shot him twice. Most likely he was dead but didn't know it.


Still out of policy, and should be charged.

Had they adjusted to follow force / de-escalation of force.. they would have followed officer safety protocols and de-escalated to safer distance.. what do you think the dog is for? it isn't for an officer to plan NOT to use and walk like a pet.

When the dog arrives, de-escalate.. its trained on.. the K-9 handler, and cops who dont want get bit, are specifically trained to allow space enough to announce intent to release the hound.. "if you do not do this, I will release a police dog" type warning.

Those officers escalated to deadly force, rather than de-escalating to less lethal K-9.. besides, shooting someone with a dog in your hand, is just bad judgement... totally uncouth.

Dog goes before bullets.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:41 PM
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reply to post by r3axion
 


off topic but im also in the Corps, 1371 combat engineer what about yourself



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:44 PM
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reply to post by caf1550
 


0311 semper fi



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:51 PM
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Escalation, de-escalation of force training dictates the K-9 should have been deployed before using deadly force. The dog handler choose to kill a person rather than risk his K-9.

Manslaughter.


That would clearly be a poor use of resources. Do you have any idea what those dogs are worth? They are expensive to begin with, add all of the training and they can be over $50,000. What do a few bullets and some extra paperwork cost? A public servant displaying sound economic judgement, in a life threatening situation none the less, impressive. Manslaughter? Lighten up a bit.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by r3axion
reply to post by Stryc9nine
 


Seeing as I'm a Marine I'd say I'm pretty well acquainted with weapons and target ranges. Thanks for being condescending, though.

Police are not a militarized force. Their job first and foremost is to apprehend people who commit crimes and throw them in jail, not murder them execution style when they are no longer a threat. There was no reason to keep shooting after he fell. That's when he should have been jumped on and cuffed.

I have common sense, something this officer clearly lacked. This didn't justify taking a human's life.
edit on 25-1-2012 by r3axion because: (no reason given)


you say you are acquainted with firearms and you say something like he should have shot him in the legs in a public setting? how often do you shoot at targets that look like legs? what if the cops miss his legs, bullet ricochets, and kill innocent bystanders? and for what? to save this idiots ass? one of the rules of firearms... never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. especially when you feel your life is threatened, you shoot to kill...

edit on 25-1-2012 by Stryc9nine because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by Stryc9nine
 


Legs, shoulder, doesn't matter. He was like 3 feet away, give me a break. If bystanders were your concern maybe you should be more worried that he spent 10 rounds instead of the 3 it took before he fell to the ground.
edit on 25-1-2012 by r3axion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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Whether anyone likes it or not, use of deadly force was authorized in this instance as the subject's actions themselves were the same. After watching it, I would say the incident was not only in line with policy but could be used as training aid for future cadets.

Note that the attempt to use lesser force was used in conjunction with verbal commands, both of which failed. The taser was ineffective and once the subject was in the beginning motions of swinging a deadly weapon at the officer, his partner was left with no choice but to escalate to deadly force. The officer was responding to deadly force with deadly force.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 08:02 PM
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Originally posted by r3axion
reply to post by Stryc9nine
 


Legs, shoulder, doesn't matter. He was like 3 feet away, give me a break. If bystanders were your concern maybe you should be more worried that he spent 10 rounds instead of the 3 it took before he fell to the ground.
edit on 25-1-2012 by r3axion because: (no reason given)


you should be a cop in east los instead of wasting your time in the military. they need more stand up guys like you over there. beside, the pay is better...



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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can la pd not afford tasers for their officers pepper spray. use k9 officer, a baton



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by proteus33
can la pd not afford tasers for their officers pepper spray. use k9 officer, a baton


i think education is important in america.




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