2012 and Other Civilizations

We have all heard the claims regarding 2012 and the Maya. I have discussed that topic in a few other threads of mine. Now, most of us have probably also heard that the claims regarding the Maya and 2012 are supported by other civilizations that had prophecies related to 2012. In fact, depending on who you ask, every civilization apparently has a prophecy associated with 2012. I have personally tried to find these prophecies and have turned up nothing. So, I am laying out a challenge I have made many times before. In the past I have either received no answer or someone says they will respond to me later and they never do. So, the challenge is simple. Since so many people have claimed these prophecies exist someone out there must have evidence for them. What I'm not looking for is a simple list of civilizations that supposedly have prophecies. I'm also not looking for ambiguous prophecies that make no reference to 2012. Ideally what I'm looking for are the actual prophecies that supposedly mention 2012. So, there's the challenge. Can those of you who claim there is corroborating evidence for 2012 actually have such evidence or are you simply parroting the words of some New Age author?

Not sure what your intention is in creating this thread.
Is it to debunk the measuring of a cosmic cycle or to debunk that which is overlayed onto the cycle in question

reply to post by artistpoet


It is to learn the truth. Plenty of people have claimed there are multiple prophecies that refer to 2012. In all of my research I have found none. So either no such prophecies exist or they are so obscure that the average person cannot find them. Personally, I'd say the former is more likely. ATS is about denying ignorance, so what's the problem about trying to get to the heart of the matter? If people are quoting false information shouldn't we bring this to light?

reply to post by Xcalibur254


Here is something that may interest you my friend. I can give you a link and you can expand your search from there. But this one is about the Dogon, who have a weird story to tell you may enjoy. The Dogon, the Nommos, and Sirius B

The Hopi Prophecies are also good ones to look at as well.

They do not give a specific date i do not believe, but its subject to interpretation.

There are a lot of prophecies, but a lot of them do not give a particular due date. Perhaps they are all the same thing. like the second coming of christ. or some of the ancient prophecies about sky gods returning to earth. I suggest you watch Ancient Aliens as well,

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
reply to post by artistpoet

 

It is to learn the truth. Plenty of people have claimed there are multiple prophecies that refer to 2012. In all of my research I have found none. So either no such prophecies exist or they are so obscure that the average person cannot find them. Personally, I'd say the former is more likely. ATS is about denying ignorance, so what's the problem about trying to get to the heart of the matter? If people are quoting false information shouldn't we bring this to light?

Thanks for your reply.
It is true what you say or what I think you are saying - That ancient time keeping of the movements of the heavens is overlayed with personal perspectives and prophesy.
Is it possible to prophesy - I would say yes it is easy to prophesy cosmic events. Forecasters do it all the time by stating when the Sun will rise, when the Sun will set. Aztec priests could prohesy when a solar eclipse would occur. As for 2012 as far as I am aware on the 21st Dec 2012 it marks the end of a cycle and so the begining of that cycle once more.
Just out of interest yet not wanting to defend - The Ancient Egyptians speak of Zep Tepi which roughly means The First Time - much elaboration has been added to this such as gods descending to Earth. It has to be considered that gods with a small g refered to natural laws. Astronomical constellations refered to in this myth are the Fixed signs of Taurus, Scorpio, Leo and Aquarius - At present our Sun is seen to rise in Pisces due to the wobble or tilt of the Earth some 23.5 degrees - yet the Sun is transitioning into Aquarius from Pisces.
I believe many myths contain Astronomical information.
I can sense you yawning by now but am interested to discuss in an open minded manner anything I have written

reply to post by AzureSky


I'll need to look more deeply into the Dogon and their prophecies. There's been so much information written about them that is questionable. As for the Hopi, most of the prophecies attributed to them don't exist. This got so bad that the Hopi elders actually put out a press release saying that unless you hear something from a Hopi on Hopi land you shouldn't believe any of the claims attributed to the Hopi.

This Dogon thing intrigues me.

I'll read later and comment.

Can someone point out the 2012 connection wih the dogon? I'm not seeing it

well i think one big problem is that you want to believe in something so much that you review the evidence when its to late ..at least this happens to me...i do afterwards be disappointed but i always accepted the truth because i'm no idiot.

for example i heard the pyramds has something to do with 2012..they show you numbers imposed on gogole earth maps, lines and figure but you never try the maths yourself..

other connection with 2012 was the chinese claendar which again you never stop and try it yourself..



now OP since i have faith in you that you debunk a fraud..can you kindly take a look at this thread of mine and give your views about it?

i will appreciate your contribution XD

Are we paying attention enough? Strange Sounds in the sky

I saw this posted in another thread recently. According to the old In Search Of series, on Mayan mysteries,
It was predicted to be December 24th 2011??? It was also predicted to be a cataclysmic earthquake.
The time frame starts at 4:40 on the video

reply to post by mugger


What you must remember is that this episode came out in the 70s while the GMT correlation which gives us the December 21, 2012 date wasn't published until 1983. The December 24, 2011 date comes from an early correlation between the Long Count and the Gregorian calendar made by Michael Coe. He revised his correlation in 1980 to January 11, 2013. Then in 1984 he settled on the date he currently supports, December 23, 2012. This is known as the GMT+2 correlation and is based on a lot more data than the other two correlations.

reply to post by heineken


I'm still not entirely sold on the weird sky sound stuff. Since we do have clear examples of hoaxes it's become hard to determine how many examples, if any, are legitimate. Even if some are legitimate there is nothing to connect them to any 2012 prophecy. We can look back throughout history and notice that similar sounds have always been reported. For example, Charles Fort references a number of such occurrences in his books.

reply to post by Xcalibur254


thanks!!

reply to post by AzureSky


The story of the Dogon is another of those stories that becomes more and more embellished over time. It is like a fishing story.

The problems start with the possibility of life around Sirius. It's a blazing star that is going to burn out relatively quickly compared to our Sun. Was there time enough for intelligent life to develop there? Would the companion star allow for a planet to have a stable orbit? Need to allow life to live on a planet if it exists.

And where did this story come from? Well, it came from people that went there that knew about Sirius B. In fact Griaule and Deiterlen had star maps with them which they took to Mali in the 1930s. They do not report that the Dogon knew about Sirius B in their work from that time period. A bit odd to not mention that if the Dogon had been aware of Sirius B.

Somewhere, sometime, for whatever reason knowledge of Sirius B has been given to the Dogon from people outside of their group. It makes for a good story. The evidence suggests quite strongly that the Dogon learned about Sirius B from outsiders.

Here we are just about 24 hours later and much like my thread where I asked for an example of the Long Count that ends after 13 baktun no one has been able to deliver. So, I have to ask 2012 believers why they believe in these claims when they don't even have proof that the claims are true?

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by AzureSky

 

The story of the Dogon is another of those stories that becomes more and more embellished over time. It is like a fishing story.

The problems start with the possibility of life around Sirius. It's a blazing star that is going to burn out relatively quickly compared to our Sun. Was there time enough for intelligent life to develop there? Would the companion star allow for a planet to have a stable orbit? Need to allow life to live on a planet if it exists.

And where did this story come from? Well, it came from people that went there that knew about Sirius B. In fact Griaule and Deiterlen had star maps with them which they took to Mali in the 1930s. They do not report that the Dogon knew about Sirius B in their work from that time period. A bit odd to not mention that if the Dogon had been aware of Sirius B.

Somewhere, sometime, for whatever reason knowledge of Sirius B has been given to the Dogon from people outside of their group. It makes for a good story. The evidence suggests quite strongly that the Dogon learned about Sirius B from outsiders.

Can you give any refrences of who these outsiders were/are that gave the Dogons knowledge of Sirius.
Also where is it said that Grialle and Deitterlen took star maps before the Dogons spoke of these stars.
Sirius B is a white Dwarf star which orbits Sirius A - it is as stable as any other star system.
It is known by Astronomers that this type of white dwarf star is very common and some speculate they help define other stars orbits because of their incredible density.

reply to post by artistpoet


As I mentioned int he post the names are Griaule and Deiterlen. These 2 anthropologists were trained in astronomy and even took star maps with them. They were well aware of the recent evidence that there was a companion to Sirius.

Sirius B is a white Dwarf star which orbits Sirius A - it is as stable as any other star system.

Quite true, but such a star system would make planetary orbits unstable. The 2 stars are 8 to 20AU apart. This would be like putting a star in our system that runs between the orbits of Saturn and Uranus. Saturn is out 10AU and Uranus 20AU. Remember that the Dogon story has them talking to inhabitants of a planet from Sirius.

In response to the OP I agree that the tales of other civilizations or cultures discussing 2012 are just that - fairy tales.

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by artistpoet

 

As I mentioned int he post the names are Griaule and Deiterlen. These 2 anthropologists were trained in astronomy and even took star maps with them. They were well aware of the recent evidence that there was a companion to Sirius.

Sirius B is a white Dwarf star which orbits Sirius A - it is as stable as any other star system.

Quite true, but such a star system would make planetary orbits unstable. The 2 stars are 8 to 20AU apart. This would be like putting a star in our system that runs between the orbits of Saturn and Uranus. Saturn is out 10AU and Uranus 20AU. Remember that the Dogon story has them talking to inhabitants of a planet from Sirius.

Yes but perhaps they took starmaps for reference to what the Dogons spoke of - That is why I would need to know who wrote they did such a thing - I was wondering if you knew?

To be honest Astronmers are often baffled by what they discover - Such as white dwarf stars orbiting and interacting with Red Dwarfs and Jupiter size planets orbitingtheir star as close as the Earth is to the Sun.
So many things stretch our understanding so therefore I can not rule out any possibility. Like Patrick Moore said
when Hubble sent back images - "We now know what we thought we know is only 1% of all ther is" or something like that - if you get what I mean.
I have a belief about beings from Sirius but will not discuss that or provide any evidence or proof as it would entail other beliefs - But I do get your sceptism and think it healthy

Originally posted by artistpoet
Yes but perhaps they took starmaps for reference to what the Dogons spoke of - That is why I would need to know who wrote they did such a thing - I was wondering if you knew?

The Dogon thing really IS a hoax, and well known as a hoax in most circles

To be honest Astronmers are often baffled by what they discover - Such as white dwarf stars orbiting and interacting with Red Dwarfs and Jupiter size planets orbitingtheir star as close as the Earth is to the Sun

"Baffled" isn't really the right term. They're excited to discover something new, they're working to find out what the mechanics are -- they're like kids with a brand new toy.

(I'm speaking from personal experience, having known some real astronomers.)