Hello Mr. president, Abortion Is Murder! Life Begins At Fertilization! That's A Fact [snip]!

reply to post by Gorman91

But the law cannot force insult to injury.

Why not, if it means preventing innocent person from being killed? In such case, too bad, but there is no other way.

Nothing except imminent threat to life and health could justify killing another innocent person. Last time I checked, rape pregnancy is no more threatening for the mother than normal pregnancy.

Or will you finally admit that you consider a fetus to be of less value than born people? You cant have it both ways.

reply to post by Believer101

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So you're saying killing a perfectly fine, normal human being for attacking someone else is perfectly okay, but when it comes to a mass of cells living inside of a woman "Oh god, that's against morals, and I hate you for it! THAT'S WRONG!"

Is that what you're saying? You'd rather protect a glob of cells that won't be wanted, will most likely be thrown into a foster home or grow up in a horrible place than protect a living, breathing, human being whom attacked someone?

Yep.

reply to post by Believer101

a perfectly fine, normal human being for attacking someone else

Your proof such a creature exists? I'm not aware of a "perfectly fine, normal" RAPIST !!!

BTW, I'd be curious to see how your opinion would differ if you were the "attack" (RAPE) victim.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Gorman91

 

But the law cannot force insult to injury.

Why not, if it means preventing innocent person from being killed? In such case, too bad, but there is no other way.

Nothing except imminent threat to life and health could justify killing another innocent person. Last time I checked, rape pregnancy is no more threatening for the mother than normal pregnancy.

Or will you finally admit that you consider a fetus to be of less value than born people? You cant have it both ways.

edit on 2/2/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

a fetus does have less value then a person that has been born since a fetus cant contribute to society.

embryo =/= life

if sombody wants to abort a fetus then let them. the only thing i have a problem with is late term abortions since if your that far along you might as well give birth to it and put it in foster care.


And for you pro life people. If you were able to travel back in time would you abort baby hitler? would you trade the "life" of one for the lives of many?

Originally posted by MastaShake

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by Gorman91

 

But the law cannot force insult to injury.

Why not, if it means preventing innocent person from being killed? In such case, too bad, but there is no other way.

Nothing except imminent threat to life and health could justify killing another innocent person. Last time I checked, rape pregnancy is no more threatening for the mother than normal pregnancy.

Or will you finally admit that you consider a fetus to be of less value than born people? You cant have it both ways.

edit on 2/2/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

a fetus does have less value then a person that has been born since a fetus cant contribute to society.

embryo =/= life

if sombody wants to abort a fetus then let them. the only thing i have a problem with is late term abortions since if your that far along you might as well give birth to it and put it in foster care.


And for you pro life people. If you were able to travel back in time would you abort baby hitler? would you trade the "life" of one for the lives of many?

edit on 2-2-2012 by MastaShake because: (no reason given)

I am pro-choice. I was just highlighting the hypocrisy of people who are pro-life and claim the fetus has the same value as born human, yet are OK with abortion in case of rape and incest, as if rape fetus was somehow fundamentally different.

Originally posted by Maslo


Why not, if it means preventing innocent person from being killed? In such case, too bad, but there is no other way.

Nothing except imminent threat to life and health could justify killing another innocent person. Last time I checked, rape pregnancy is no more threatening for the mother than normal pregnancy.

edit on 2/2/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)

You must not have read what I posted.


Go back and read, the rape nearly destroyed her, she was hospitalize for suicide prevention at one point. Had she become pregnant, from what was done to her, and someone like YOU forced her into carrying the pregnancy full term not only would the unborn life have been lost in the end, her life would have been sacrificed in the process.

So in your opinion, her life means nothing compared to an unborn life. Where is that right???

VERY Sick!

Oh I saw your follow up just now, sorry

BTW, your sig regarding the special Olympics is one or her favorite sayings

I think Marc Rubio says it best.

Daily Caller
Rubio: ‘America cannot truly fulfill its destiny unless it ends abortion

I really hestitated before making this thread due to the nature of controversy. I decided to go ahead and say what I thought even though I would be heavily criticized, it is not the popular choice, my faith would be ridiculed etc.
It did not matter to me, I felt I must take a stand and speak up for the innocent that has no voice.
Rubio addressess our arguments in this article and does so beautifully.

Thanks so much for all your overwhelming response.

Pax

reply to post by paxnatus


We shouldn't kill any life whatsoever. Including plants, animals, or insects. No life should be killed for any reason. But if this is the way its supposed to work, then life wouldn't exist. So it must not be true. Just because you don't like the answer doen't mean it isn't true.

reply to post by paxnatus


But then as I described and clearly outlined in my post, you would rather force my living breathing daughter who has harmed no one, into such an untenable situation, on top of the damage already done to her, which her previously innocent, then abused mind almost couldn't take, and push her farther towards suicide in hopes that she just might survive it long enough to give birth to what was forced on her???

Then you do not support life. You only support unborn life, not the ones that are here already.

Originally posted by Pixiefyre
reply to post by paxnatus

 

But then as I described and clearly outlined in my post, you would rather force my living breathing daughter who has harmed no one, into such an untenable situation, on top of the damage already done to her, which her previously innocent, then abused mind almost couldn't take, and push her farther towards suicide in hopes that she just might survive it long enough to give birth to what was forced on her???

Then you do not support life. You only support unborn life, not the ones that are here already.

I think in a way we have to choose the lesser of two evils, and I choose the life, instead of unborn life, If I was an unborn I would gladly give my life for someone who has already made an impact. Thats just the way its going to be, because it makes more sense LOGICALLY. It might feel better to support unborn life, so you can tell yourself your providing a voice for the innocent, but in reality nobody chose anyone to be a voice, and it isn't anyones obligation to do so. There is no voice, because there are no brain waves to create thought.

Which is why I say, if we can't kill certain amounts of life, we can't survive, it takes life to live life, simple as that. In that way the universe balances its self out, you can't save one life without taking another, its all about the deciscion of which one? There is no way to save all of life.

As for the religious "Christian" or Judeo-Christian aspect of things, the Bible does not support the idea that life begins at conception. in fact in Leviticus 27 and Numbers 3 the Lord appears not to consider infants younger than 1 month "Persons", In Hosea 9 and 13 the and 2 Samual 12 the Lord inflicts abortion on women. And those aren't all of the passages that put this forward.

Aside from that.....for those basing their views on religious beliefs....

I was granted what I believe is a true miracle through the life of my child. ..See posting regarding that here :

I Know Miracles Exist I Wouldn't be Here if They Didn't and I am Grateful

So...had she ended up pregnant due to the violation against her, those supporting the idea of forcing her to carry it through even though it might push her beyond all hope so save the unborn life, holding that as more important than her. Would be choosing to risk causing the divine miracle that I was granted through her life to die.

Originally posted by DenyObfuscation
reply to post by Believer101

 

a perfectly fine, normal human being for attacking someone else

Your proof such a creature exists? I'm not aware of a "perfectly fine, normal" RAPIST !!!

BTW, I'd be curious to see how your opinion would differ if you were the "attack" (RAPE) victim.

edit on 2-2-2012 by DenyObfuscation because: clarity

Actually I have been raped. Before and after the rape, he's still a perfectly fine, normal human being. He is a living, breathing human being. He is a person. An awful one for raping me, but still a person.

A fetus, on the other hand, is not yet a person. It's just a glob of cells. It has not taken a breath, has no heart or brain, most have no name, and are literally an IT until a few months in.

reply to post by Pixiefyre


I am so sorry for what happened tp your daughter. It happened to me as well when I was 24 I was brutally beaten raped and held hostage for hours. I think I understand what she has been through. I still support my statement that I believe life begins at conception and the only one whom should have the power to say other wise is Christ himself.

I lived and yur daughter survived because God wanted us to. Feel free to blast away at my beliefs, I still stand by my satement that abortion is wrong and it is murder.

Pax

reply to post by paxnatus


Then we're all murderers because we've all killed plants, and animals, to live. We either murder, if thats what you want to call it, or we all die and the human race ceases to exist. Thats it, you can't have a double standard it doesn't work that way, we kill life and survive, or we don't and we all die. I pick the former, I guess we are all entitled to pick whatever we choose.

reply to post by andersensrm


How ridiculous to equate a human life with a plant or animal. If you place the same value on a human life as a cock roach then I feel sorry for you, and do not believe you take the issue of abortion seriously.

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by andersensrm

 

How ridiculous to equate a human life with a plant or animal. If you place the same value on a human life as a cock roach then I feel sorry for you, and do not believe you take the issue of abortion seriously.

I take it very seriously. I don't put myself on a pedastool above anything else. I would gladly put anyones life in front of mine, I know that no one could actually know if I am being honest, but thats not the point. The point is, is that death is a part of life. And putting humans in this golden zone, where we say no matter what humans are better than anything and everyone must survive simply doesn't make sense, and is not what nature intended. Im not out to go and just start killing things, I love all of life, and Im not for just throwing it away. It saddens me that people think of animals and plants as nothing, I don't many don't share my view. I don't believe we have a right to live, just a privelige and people forget that. Nevertheless, abortion is going to keep happening until we find someway of desteralizing and resterilizeing either men or women, or both, and creating some kind of qualification before someone can actually have a baby. Otherwise our population will just run out of control, millions of people will die of starvation, I do not want abortion, but I also don't want to create another person, just so they can die a horrible death. It may not be my kid, or their kid, but somewhere down the road we will hit the wall, and its going to because we are to selfish towards ourselves.

reply to post by Maslo


My point comes down to this. Murder is illegal, unlawful killing for short. Deliberate abortion is consistent with the action of murder with the only difference being it's currently lawful. Call it what it is and apply the law consistently.
Ojectively, human life is human life regardless of development. Value judgements are subjective.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


It is not the only exception. Killing biologically still alive but braindead people (for example after a stroke) is also lawful (thats where organs for transplantation come from), even killing some not completely braindead but vegetative people was deemed lawful (Terry Schiavo).

Its obvious that the intent of the law is in fact the protection of the mind, which makes us persons, and not mindless humans, even if alive in the strict biological sense. Otherwise all braindead patients would have to be cared about until complete necrosis, and organ transplantations would be illegal.

Embryos are mindless humans too.

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by DenyObfuscation

 

It is not the only exception. Killing biologically still alive but braindead people (for example after a stroke) is also lawful (thats where organs for transplantation come from), even killing some not completely braindead but vegetative people was deemed lawful (Terry Schiavo).

Its obvious that the intent of the law is in fact the protection of the mind, which makes us persons, and not mindless humans, even if alive in the strict biological sense. Otherwise all braindead patients would have to be cared about until complete necrosis, and organ transplantations would be illegal.

Embryos are mindless humans too.

Do you not see a huge difference in stopping efforts to keep someone alive and actively killing someone?

If someone would have shot Terry Schiavo in the head...they would have been convicted of murder.

Your logic is way off.

reply to post by Maslo

It is not the only exception.

Since you recognize it as an exception, I ask you, an exception to what exactly? I say an exception to the logical and consistent application of existing murder laws. A subjective exception.