Hello Mr. president, Abortion Is Murder! Life Begins At Fertilization! That's A Fact [snip]!

reply to post by DenyObfuscation

Since we agree on this, what have I said that you labeled "only" opinion and semantics?

This:

Abortion kills this human life and therefore should be recognized in the eyes of the law as murder.

This is just an opinion, a moral stance which is supported by nothing more than what "feels" right. Science and logic is not enough to derive it. You cannot objectively derive what ought to be from what is.

en.wikipedia.org...–ought_problem

I have not presented a religious or moral argument.

See above.

I am not attempting to impose my morality on anyone nor have I given any indication that I even posess any certain morality.

Yes, you have. You have claimed that human life should be protected from conception. That is a moral claim, and it is your morality.


Once again, pro-life people should stop pretending that their position is in any way more logical or scientific than any other stance on abortion. It is not. Get down from your high horse, and acknowledge that you hold a subjective moral opinion about abortion not supported by anything more than what "feels" right to you.

Abortion kills this human life and therefore should be recognized in the eyes of the law as murder.

Warning, subjective moral opinion ahead: killing human life is not enough to be recognized as murder. It must be a human being with brain developed enough to posses brainwaves, it must also not be braindead, and it must not be in self-defense.

Killing human life is not necessarily evil or wrong.

reply to post by Gorman91


Wow is all I can say. I really wish they had a facepalm smiley face right now.

That doesn't really answer my question, but alright then, whatever you say.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by openyourmind1262

 

The fact remains true that if two people decided to have sex, two people should have a say in what happens to the fruits of that labor. If you don't like that, then sucks to be you.

Ok, so if both partners agree, then you're OK with abortion. Whew!

For awhile there I thought you were an unreasonable bully with no compassion for your living, breathing sisters!

There is a natural action that can be taken with the same outcome as abortion, without killing anything. It's called not having sex, turns out women can't get pregnant from that.

Having sex = you could get pregnant.

I don't understand how it is threatening the sanctity of a woman's body if she makes her bed, then refuses to sleep in it. You can argue the fine details about when life begins until the cows come home, people who believe a fetus is not living are deluding themselves because it is most definitely alive. What process of thought does someone go through in order to believe entirely that a baby in the womb is not alive? Scary, a human baby has been reduced to no more than an accessory that can be adored and then just thrown away when nobody wants it anymore. The fetus becomes a temporary symbol of social and family status for the selfish purposes of the parents, rather than a new life.

This whole abortion issue is pointless, people just wholeheartedly accept irresponsibility and declare they have the "right" to be irresponsible. You don't want a kid then don't have sex, it's called foresight, use it.

reply to post by RSF77


I suppose it must just be super easy for you to never have sex. Hormones are good at impeding peoples' actions.

reply to post by windword


Nope. lol. I was just saying in regards to the idea that men have nos ay because they don't have kids.


Context. Something everyone here seems lacking in understanding.

Every time I'm in these arguments they are ultimately unending because most of you all are incredibly assumptive, ignorant, and biased. Well at least you'll never have any real power acting like that. I'll enjoy the show all the while though. It's interesting to study how emotion can make someone loose sight of common sense.

reply to post by Believer101


If you find this answer lacking, speak up. It answers it well enough to my eyes.

reply to post by RSF77


Makes a lot of sense. People in this new age, have this attitude that they don't have to be accountable for their actions, or responsible for their lives. This new mentality is hitting my generation in droves, to the point that I don't even know if it can be reversed...

reply to post by Gorman91

But I cannot force someone whom had their rights violated to do something.

Yes you definately can, if doing otherwise would mean the death for another person.
Or do you acknowledge the fetus is not a person?

reply to post by Gorman91


From reading your posts, I have noticed a lot of symptoms characteristic of clinical psychopathy (antisocial personality disorder):
- apparent lack of emotions, or very shallow emotional characteristics
- unable to be empathic with others, analyzing situations which would create very deep emotional responses from healthy people only from the logical perspective
- complete disregard for societal moral values, or the very concept of morality
- manipulative mentality

Have you been to psychiatrist lately?

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by andersensrm


If you are a fan of responsibility, then why should abortion even be allowed if you were fooling around and thought you wouldn't pay the consequences. Better the ignorant couple have a kid now to shock them into reality than let them continue free of charge until they do something really bad like drunk driving or God knows what.

Once a society starts instrumenting this idea of responsibility like that, then you really end up with two groups. Idiots who now have to deal with reality, and good planners who now can get further as a reward. I don't really see why the idiots should have a right to murder the results of their stupidity.

The problem I have with anti-abortion advocates is that the only life thy care to protect is that of the unborn. The person they want to carry an unwanted pregnancy full term they couldn't care less about, that person's life means nothing to them and I have to say it really ticks me off.

And this is why.

My daughter now 22, on the last day of her freshman year in HS at age 15 an upperclassman used threats to harm ME to force her against her will, It took until she was 17 to tell me. I felt like I was watching her die over those years I didn't know what to do or what happened, she suppressed it, got physically ill, we had every test run under the sun on her, she'd go pale and pass out and then she started having panic attacks and we, got her into a psych and he knew something happened but she just said nothing, then she developed agoraphobia had to finish HS online . It destroyed all of her high school years, no socialization to speak of etc.

And you know up until that day I always knew exactly where she was and when and would have been looking for her if she was more than 5 minutes late.

But it was the last day of her freshman year, we lived so close to the school I could ear the kids laughing from my porch and could walk less 1/2 a block to see the kids in front of the school. I kept looking and seeing kids there laughing and didn't wan to be OVER PROTECTIVE, I thought she was hanging out in front of the school with her friends before the summer started and they didn't see as much of each other..

And he was so much bigger than her and she was so scared that he would actually come and hurt me like he threatened while she was at her father's for the summer and I was alone, everything we talked about went out the window in her panic.

She luckily did not get pregnant from the attack, the experience itself was so totally destructive to her that, I know that she just would not have survived it, it would have been too much for her to handle.

She only reached the point of finally starting to gain some semblance of a normal life last year...such as being able to leave the house without her father or myself with her, she couldn't even walk out the door without one of us.

Had she become pregnant as a result of what happened to her, the anti-abortion advocates would have forced her into a situation where in all likelihood she would take her life, people have no IDEA what she went though. But they would rather her be pushed beyond the bounds of what she could live through, to preserve a life forced on her and in the end both would have been lost. And I don't say that lightly, she had to be hospitalized at one point. And all they would care about was the unborn life, they couldn't care less what having to carry the result of a rape that so devastated her would do to her life.

The world is a beautiful place with her in it.

reply to post by Pixiefyre


But that's an assumption. Not everyone who hates abortion wants to banned 100%.

I don't agree with it, and I'll still be biased to people who do it, but I can understand why someone who was attacked would do that.

That said, most Abortions are done by people who willingly had sex. These are the source for the millions killed because millions wanted to undo their stupid mistakes.

I do purposely discount the parents in this case, because quite frankly, one child is worth more than two people who don't have common sense.

I don't condone using abortion as a form of birth control by any means. I think education on the use of birth control items, and availability of birth control instruments and medication should be in the fore front on this.

I don't believe though that abortion should be banned entirely, because.....well, I really love my daughter, and I don't know what I would have done had we lost her.

Gotta love the lives that are currently living too

It wasn't her fault, what happened to her, she was literally terrified.

And when she did tell me and we reported it the guy got off scott free

reply to post by Gorman91


I did. Twice. You further ignored me pretending like you answered my question.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by windword

 

Every time I'm in these arguments they are ultimately unending because most of you all are incredibly assumptive, ignorant, and biased. Well at least you'll never have any real power acting like that. I'll enjoy the show all the while though. It's interesting to study how emotion can make someone loose sight of common sense.

edit on 1-2-2012 by Gorman91 because: (no reason given)

That is exactly the way your arguments come off, assumptive, ignorant, biased, and are lacking in common sense. Oh, the "power of the avatar!" I highly doubt that you would enjoy any real power acting that way in the real world, either.

reply to post by Believer101


You asked how I can justify the murder of rape victim's fetuses.

I answered I can't. But the law cannot force insult to injury.

This is a pretty straightforward answer. I really am blind to what you are missing.

reply to post by windword


Arrogant I'd say. But not ignorant. Simply lacking empathy for idiots, and void of all empathy for people whom wish to risk their lives to murder another one. Perfectly logical.

reply to post by Pixiefyre


Then you peruse the bastard until he's either 6 feet under or in 6 feet of concrete walls.

I have empathy for those whom were abused. I do not agree if they get an abortion, and like I said, I would even say I would hate them for doing it. But who am I to judge the actions of one whom was a victim? I'd probably murder a rapist if I saw him in the act, or were I a victim. And I'd vote not guilty in a trial for just such a murder.

That's really all I can say. Abortion is horrible in my opinion, but when faced with insult to injury, or the death of two people rather than one, you have to make a choice. THAT'S when choice is important. Not when you already made the choice to have sex and decided to be stupid.

Give choice to those who had none, take the so-called choice from those whom already had the option.

reply to post by Gorman91


So you're saying killing a perfectly fine, normal human being for attacking someone else is perfectly okay, but when it comes to a mass of cells living inside of a woman "Oh god, that's against morals, and I hate you for it! THAT'S WRONG!"

Is that what you're saying? You'd rather protect a glob of cells that won't be wanted, will most likely be thrown into a foster home or grow up in a horrible place than protect a living, breathing, human being whom attacked someone?

WOW.