Hello Mr. president, Abortion Is Murder! Life Begins At Fertilization! That's A Fact [snip]!

I think it is technically murder. I don't think one can choose if 1 week old in the womb or 1 month old in the womb should be a deciding point. That said, as much as one can get all caught up in the emotional side of this, the fact is pregnancy is common, very common, meaning it happens a lot since sex is a natural inclination. We get knocked up like rabbits, really. You can get all God like about it, but it is science. You can be an athiest and have a whole litter of kids, because it's about sex and sex alone. Sex makes babies. Sex is human nature.

The world is not an infinite place. Man is not at a point that we make perfect decisions. ANd until that time that we do, there is a need for abortion. I'd prefer it not to be the case, but we've got too many people on this earth as it is.

A baby is a gift, and should be, but it is not always a gift to the many women who get knocked up, unintentionally. Every person that is alive was meant to be alive, and every one that is not, was not.

You don't like it, don't let it happen to you. But know that it will not be a perfect world if abortion goes away, that's for sure.

Originally posted by Crakeur
If you want to split hairs, sperm cells are one celled living creatures and, therefore, every time a guy masturbates, he's killing thousands of them.

So, unless the Supreme Court outlaws self love by men, the should stick to governing over those that are breathing air.

I'm glad you said it! I just couldn't bring myself to bring that up....no pun intended!
But...like I said...I'm staying out of this one!

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by DelMar

 

What makes people valuable, as opposed to plants?

You can find value in both people and plants, but to bring killing plants into a discussion about abortion is beyond illogical.

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by windword

 

Perhaps if these choices were not available then we would place a higher value on human life..

I highly doubt it. Look at history.

Originally posted by DelMar

Originally posted by Maslo
reply to post by DelMar

 

What makes people valuable, as opposed to plants?

You can find value in both people and plants, but to bring killing plants into a discussion about abortion is beyond illogical.

Its not beyond illogical, but there are better comparisons such as gametes or braindead people.

They are human (they are not dogs, are they?) and they are alive (not biologically dead). Yet we kill them. Whats the difference with embryos?

reply to post by Tw0Sides


Im guessing not many if any. That seems to be the way pro lifers are. These babies need to live, but im not adopting them! There are already too many children that are mistreated of have no one to care for them, do we really need more? Fetuses are aborted because they are not wanted. What kind of a life would these children lead if they were born? I have a feeling most of them would not have a fabulous life.

Is it because the elections are coming that there are multiple threads on this? I think it is. It happens every time.

The bottom line is that it is none of your business, no matter how passionate you feel about the subject. Who are you to tell people what they can and cant do? You dont know the situations involved so your opinion is irrelevant.
You are just assuming that every abortion is the result of irresponsibility from the mother. Yes, it does happen often but maybe the problem is lack of education and availability of contraceptives. The option should be there for the women who decide that is the best choice for the situation. I do think its wrong to use it as a form of contraception. Thats where some education would help.

Making abortion illegal will not prevent people from having unprotected sex or getting abortions. It will just make you feel better about it because people will have to live up to your supposed "higher moral standards". It is not your body, life or decision to make, so mind your own business. If you dont like abortion, dont get one.

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by windword

 

I'm not sure of the duration of the child in the womb but a few states do consider this Fetal Homicide...

Link

Thank you, very interesting,

Honestly how can people defend abortion when some scientist and doctors still have a differing opinion OF when life begins,

Originally posted by Stormdancer777

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by windword

 

I'm not sure of the duration of the child in the womb but a few states do consider this Fetal Homicide...

Link

Thank you, very interesting,

Honestly how can people defend abortion when some scientist and doctors still have a differing opinion OF when life begins,

edit on 023131p://bWednesday2012 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

Just stop it! Stop it right now. This is an abortion thread! Reason and common sense?

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by Tw0Sides

 

My child is my affair!

Really? Is your child immunized? Attend public school?

My stand is about protecting the future women in this country.......

By legislating their own reproductive rights from your Judea/Christian point of view? Protect them by forcing them to have a unwanted child?

I personally don't care what you do with your own body

Yes you do, otherwise, you wouldn't be all over ATS promoting you agenda to reverse Roe Vs Wade.

but I feel a responsibility to protect the unborn innocent whom have no voice!

They have no voice because they aren't a "person" yet. They have no thoughts, goals or desires. They are nothing more than chemical reactions and cell division.

You are just shilling for the "Right of Personhood" that Republican's are tossing out this election season, in order to rattle the far right and evangelical community.

There is no line for these folks, first it's forced births, then banned contraception, then it's big brother in your bedroom, legislating what is and is not "defiant" sex.

It is not the government's place to define morality. The loudest voices and squeakiest wheels do not get to dictate our personal life changing decisions.

Originally posted by DelMar

Originally posted by isyeye
reply to post by paxnatus

 

If life begins at fertilization, and life should not be taken.....what about the murder of plants for food? They are living.

Just because something has life does not always mean that it is "alive".


Abortion is and should always be a personal choice.

Wow, seriously. You're equating plants with people? Interesting approach.

As for the topic and people asking her to quit posting, I say stop reading. If you don't like a topic, don't read about it.

IMO, plants are much more important than people.....If all humans died, life on earth will continue without a problem. Kill off the plants.....it's a big problem for life on earth.

So yes....I do equate plants with people.....actually......plants>humans

I value all life, especially children, but abortion is a choice that should be made by the ones it efffects...not by government.

Wait what the hell?

He really did say the child get mistreated so it's ok to kill it.

And itl's a given how many children pro abortion types adopt

NONE they kill them.

Personal responsibility. It boils down to personal responsibility.

Abortion absolves people from responsiblity. It is government sactioned birth control. It means you don't have to take responsibility when you have sex. You don't have to take responibility to have and raise a child. You can just kill him/her.

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by windword

 

I'm not sure of the duration of the child in the womb but a few states do consider this Fetal Homicide...

Link

This is where the discussion get litigious. A person aiding and abetting a crime in which a person is accidentally killed is guilty of murder.

Again, a woman's body is hers and her reproductive choices are hers. If a pregnant woman looses a wanted child she should have legal recourse.

Why is it that the very people who preach on ad nauseum about being "pro life" are the same ones who rabidly support the death penalty, and having our military go in and kill innocent people in other countries that are not Christian?

The hypocrisy astounds me.

It is SO EASY to get all worked up about the life of a fetus, isn't it? YOU don't have to take care of it, YOU don't have to pay for it or raise it, so it is an easy way to feel superior and closer to the spirit you imagine is God by crying on and on about imaginary fetuses and their feelings.

I personally want to see every person who wants to see abortion illegal spend their time on making the lives of these unwanted children better. You care so much about life in the womb, spew a lot of hot air about the sanctity of life, and then forget about them once they're born. Yeah, you'll show up on a message board and cry over a case like Casey Anthony, or one of the many other mothers who end up killing their unwanted children, but what have you done to make it better for these women economically and emotionally so they don't feel driven to off their offspring?

Long ago I had a temporary job at a mortuary, pulling out old files for mormons to put on microfiche for their genealogy project. This mortuary had been around since the 1890s. I noticed that there were a great deal of young women who died of blood poisoning from botched and self-induced abortions, notably around the time of wars. I guess their boyfriends came home on leave and left a little of themselves behind when they shipped back out.

Roe V. Wade was put into law to stop the back-alley and self-induced abortions that were rampant in American society at that time and were killing record numbers of young women with hideous, painful blood infections. It was done to save lives, believe it or not, because women were going to try and terminate the pregnancy whether it was legal or not.

Even in the ancient days, if women couldn't terminate the pregnancy with herbs and falls on their stomachs, they would birth the child and then toss them in the river.

BOTTOM LINE: If you don't believe in abortion, then don't get one. Whatever somebody does is between themselves and God. YOU are not qualified to be the judge. If you want to put your money where your mouth is, start adopting babies and taking in teen mothers to help them. Otherwise, your words are just so much pious, pompous hot air.

Originally posted by beezzer
Personal responsibility. It boils down to personal responsibility.

Abortion absolves people from responsiblity. It is government sactioned birth control. It means you don't have to take responsibility when you have sex. You don't have to take responibility to have and raise a child. You can just kill him/her.

Which is a problem because...??

Originally posted by neo96


And itl's a given how many children pro abortion types adopt

How many babies have you adopted?
You want to decide whats best for a woman ,inside her womb.
How about when the babies are outside the womb, Wait I've read your posts....." NOT MY PROBLEM,DAM WOMEN AND THEIR ENTITLEMENTS"

Originally posted by beezzer
Personal responsibility. It boils down to personal responsibility.

Abortion absolves people from responsiblity. It is government sactioned birth control. It means you don't have to take responsibility when you have sex. You don't have to take responibility to have and raise a child. You can just kill him/her.

Does someone getting pregnant from a rape boil down to personal responsibility?...I would think not.

Abortion is a more complicated than just being about personal responsibility.

If abortion is murder, then having sex with a condom is anti-life.
You choose your pleasure over the creation of life. Anti-life is pre-murder.

Maybe they should make condoms and the pill illegal, that will really help the economy right?
They should make sure that the act of sex always leads to the creation of life, no matter the consequences.
After the child is born and the parents cant afford to feed him/her, who cares, at least a life was created... to suffer.

There are children suffering all over the world because of anti-abortion but as long as it makes pro-life activists feel important, it doesn't really matter.

How do you feel about growing plants for the sole purpose of destroying them?

One of my main issue with Obama was his stand on partial birth abortion,and born-alive failed abortions.

1997: opposed bill preventing partial-birth abortion
In 1997, Obama voted in the Illinois Senate against SB 230, a bill designed to prevent partial-birth abortions. In the US Senate, Obama has consistently voted to expand embryonic stem cell research. He has voted against requiring minors who get out-of-state abortions to notify their parents. The National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) gives Obama a 100% score on his pro-choice voting record in the Senate for 2005, 2006, and 2007.
Source: Obama Nation, by Jerome Corsi, p.238-239 Aug 1, 2008

Opposed legislation protecting born-alive failed abortions
Obama has consistently refused to support legislation that would define an infant who survives a late-term induced-labor abortion as a human being with the right to live. He insists that no restriction must ever be placed on the right of a mother to decide to abort her child.

On March 30, 2001, Obama was the only Illinois senator who rose to speak against a bill that would have protected babies who survived late term labor-induced abortion. Obama rose to object that if the bill passed, and a nine-month-old fetus survived a late-term labor-induced abortion was deemed to be a person who had a right to live, then the law would "forbid abortions to take place." Obama further explained the equal protection clause of the Fourteenth Amendment does not allow somebody to kill a child, so if the law deemed a child who survived a late-term labor-induced abortion had a right to live, "then this would be an anti-abortion statute."

www.issues2000.org...

Obama has consistently refused to support legislation that would define an infant who survives a late-term induced-labor abortion as a human being,

Seriously?

Now let me ask some you people,

Which of you could hold an infant that survived an abortion in your arms and kill it?

Originally posted by beezzer
Personal responsibility. It boils down to personal responsibility.

Abortion absolves people from responsiblity. It is government sactioned birth control. It means you don't have to take responsibility when you have sex. You don't have to take responibility to have and raise a child. You can just kill him/her.

This is a simplified argument that puts all the responsibility on the woman. Contraception also absolves people of responsibility and often causes spontaneous abortion.

Your argument punishes the female and places no responsibility on the male. Not all pregnancies are outcomes of consensual adult sex. And, mistakes happen.

Why should someone HAVE to take responsibility to "have and raise a child" that they don't want?