Hello Mr. president, Abortion Is Murder! Life Begins At Fertilization! That's A Fact [snip]!

Originally posted by neo96
This thread took an interesting turn "God given right's" since all rights American's come from him/her by whatever name you call him/her.

Are people really trying to sit there and say Since God gave me right's he/she also gave us the right to kill a child.


The current state of the union is Government give's right's and takes them away with abortion God gave you life gave us the ability to procreate and Government give's us the right to kill that life.


Hmmmm.

But we could skip that whole argument since god doesn't really exist. In this world we are given rights by those around us and the society in which we live.

Originally posted by relpobre000


@sad_eyed_lady:

And I'm sure that prayer was as effective as all the others that are said each day

edit on 27-1-2012 by relpobre000 because: (no reason given)

I have NO DOUBT about that!
God is sooooooooooo good.

reply to post by Gorman91


No im not saying they should be able to, Im saying they are, and that is just a fact of life. We all have the choice, and no matter what you do, short of killing me or strapping me down, you cant eliminate that choice. Theres someone right next to me on the computer, I could choose to pick up this stapler and bash their head in until they die. There is nothing stopping me from doing this, other than myself. I choose not to do so, because 1. I feel it to be wrong 2. the consequences that would be applied. Do I think that its a good thing? Yes Its good that we can choose what we do. Do I think its good that people choose to kill other people, of course not. Im not for promoting violence, or anarchy. I don't think people should just go about killing without intervention. But my point is that you can't elimnate their choice to do so, without eliminating every other possible choice for anythig.

reply to post by relpobre000


Yeah well our right's are given to us by God as the writers of the US Constitution put forth in the most enduring document's in world history.

God doesn't exist people say neither does Good Government crying shame that people believe that there is a saying that is couple of thousands of years old:

Just because they don't believe in him/her doesn't mean he/she doesn't believe in them.

I ask what would Jesus do?

We've all been missing the point.

We need to demand Obama's fertilization certificate.

Bet he can't produce one.

reply to post by beezzer


you already have the power to choose whether I live or die. Everybody has that power. You can't eliminate that power, without assuming complete control over sombody else.

reply to post by andersensrm


Liberty means time, love, and freedom. That's a rather good definition from Assassin's Creed.
What you are suggesting is government run childbirth.

NOooooooooo.....

People are responsible for their actions. It's that simple. If you are in trouble through no action of your own, then the government should help you.

It's that simple.

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by beezzer

 

you already have the power to choose whether I live or die. Everybody has that power. You can't eliminate that power, without assuming complete control over sombody else.

Bingo.

That's where morals and ethics come into play.

And is also why abortion is basically an imoral act.

Thank you!

It's always interesting to hear how MEN are some of the most adamant ones on this subject. With such absolutist and authoritative views.

Also interesting is the invocation of a biblical "God". A Mythical creature which has never shown it's face to the world for....hmmm...MAYBE 2000 years, but who's escapades exist in books and anecdotes.

Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by beezzer

 

you already have the power to choose whether I live or die. Everybody has that power. You can't eliminate that power, without assuming complete control over sombody else.

Bingo.

That's where morals and ethics come into play.

And is also why abortion is basically an imoral act.

Thank you!

edit on 27-1-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)

Who decides 'morality'?

You?

The Government?

reply to post by andersensrm


And when that choice violates....love, freedom, and or life, then we have a problem.

The consequences would only be because the law says you cannot do that.

And that, at the end of the ay, is the purpose and function of the law. To say that we, as a society, frown on X an smile at Y.

This is why the government should not issue marriage licenses, because love is between two humans as they see fit to express it willingly. This is why the government should not bailout corporations, because people's life and time are eroded away by over powerful entities on government life support.

There's tons of others, but at the end of the day, we as a society smile at anything that increases life, love, and freedom, and frown at that which decreases it.

The forgetting of this fact, is a horrible tragedy.

reply to post by PaxVeritas

It's always interesting to hear how MEN are some of the most adamant ones on this subject. With such absolutist and authoritative views. Also interesting is the invocation of a biblical "God". A Mythical creature which has never shown it's face to the world for....hmmm...MAYBE 2000 years, but who's escapades exist in books and anecdotes.

All of this is your opinion and detrimental to the topic at hand.

I know plenty of women who are pro life and plenty of things that I can call miracles.

Keep to the topic at hand. And if the science backs each others causes.

Yeah well since women spending their entire lives telling men what to do

seems only fair that they have their say when women can start procreating on their own then it can be their "absolute" as it stands now it takes two to tango and will always be that way.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by andersensrm

 

And when that choice violates....love, freedom, and or life, then we have a problem.

The consequences would only be because the law says you cannot do that.

And that, at the end of the ay, is the purpose and function of the law. To say that we, as a society, frown on X an smile at Y.

This is why the government should not issue marriage licenses, because love is between two humans as they see fit to express it willingly. This is why the government should not bailout corporations, because people's life and time are eroded away by over powerful entities on government life support.

There's tons of others, but at the end of the day, we as a society smile at anything that increases life, love, and freedom, and frown at that which decreases it.

The forgetting of this fact, is a horrible tragedy.

But the "love, life, and freedom" of that 17 year old neighbor girl is usually pushed aside for the "love, life and freedom" of a faceless nameless zygote. Because somebody HAS TO PAY!!

One human's life and freedom sacrificed for a non developed person (although "human").

Gotchya.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Who decides 'morality'?

You?

The Government?

I often wonder about that though, on a philosophical level. Is there some kind of universal morality? If so, in what situations would they apply. Is rape always wrong? What about pedophilia? I would say most definitely without a question. But in other countries and at other points in history different practices are more acceptable than others.
That's the trouble we get in as Americans with our foreign policy. We try to force western values/morality on countries that have their own code of ethics.

Originally posted by PaxVeritas

Who decides 'morality'?

You?

The Government?

Neither.

There must always be a greater good. Something, an ideal, to strive for. That perception would define a societies morality.

Right now?

Our society would be better placed in one of Dantes Circles.

Originally posted by relpobre000

Originally posted by neo96
This thread took an interesting turn "God given right's" since all rights American's come from him/her by whatever name you call him/her.

Are people really trying to sit there and say Since God gave me right's he/she also gave us the right to kill a child.


The current state of the union is Government give's right's and takes them away with abortion God gave you life gave us the ability to procreate and Government give's us the right to kill that life.


Hmmmm.

But we could skip that whole argument since god doesn't really exist. In this world we are given rights by those around us and the society in which we live.

I've been told of a pro-life debater who said he can always win the debate when the opponent acknowledges the existence of God.

When you don't believe man is made in the image and likeness of God, I guess our lives are no more valuable than worms.

reply to post by PaxVeritas

But the "love, life, and freedom" of that 17 year old neighbor girl is usually pushed aside for the "love, life and freedom" of a faceless nameless zygote. Because somebody HAS TO PAY!! One human's life and freedom sacrificed for a non developed person (although "human"). Gotchya.

Great twist to what I said.

I will simply say this: If you were not raped and you don't have any risk of death, you will find no shred of empathy from me. Sucks to be the 17 year old. Enjoy your consequences!

Originally posted by relpobre000

Originally posted by PaxVeritas
Who decides 'morality'?

You?

The Government?

I often wonder about that though, on a philosophical level. Is there some kind of universal morality? If so, in what situations would they apply. Is rape always wrong? What about pedophilia? I would say most definitely without a question. But in other countries and at other points in history different practices are more acceptable than others.
That's the trouble we get in as Americans with our foreign policy. We try to force western values/morality on countries that have their own code of ethics.

"Morality" is completely relative to the society or culture at the time, place, mindset.

Majority usually rules. But there are many 'civilized" society that as a whole are Sociopathic in their daily beliefs.

America is a perfect example.

But to legislate "morality' always ends up being anti "Liberty".

reply to post by relpobre000


Good thing I don't believe in morality as you all say it is.