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Hello Mr. president, Abortion Is Murder! Life Begins At Fertilization! That's A Fact [snip]!

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posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:36 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by beezzer
 


I agree, but banning abortion for everbody else is a silly idea.

I never stated we should not DENY abortion to most. We should. The option to get one should be there though.

If the option is there, then people will always opt for the easy route. I mean, why not? Society said it's not alive. The government said it's not alive.

There needs to be a fundamental shift in how people see things. Responsibility, individualism. . . these are taboo words in todays lexicon.

People don't want to take responsiblity for their actions. Not if there is a way out! And government provides that.

Our society has gotten fat, pathetic, and lazy.

I don't know HOW to change it, all I know is, it needs to be changed.




posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by beezzer
 


So if a woman gets raped, it is her own mistake????


No.

But it becomes her responsibility.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by sad_eyed_lady
reply to post by relpobre000
 


I don't think it is acceptable to bring pain upon an 11 week old pre-born baby. If you do, I feel sorry for you.

If the truth matters I recommend you watch the documentary "The Silent Scream" (Warning - It is Disturbing Graphic)

I worked with single parent pregnant women for three years and I know there are always options other than abortion available to pregnant women - they just don't know it.


I've seen the (and I use this term loosely) 'documentary'.
If the truth matters to anyone 'The Silent Scream' is a slanted propaganda piece designed to shock mush-minded individuals into submission.

If you feel sorry for me I'm sure you'll pray for me as well



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by relpobre000

Originally posted by beezzer

Justification for avoiding responsibiliy is NOT a valid reason for abortion.


Good thing it's not up to you to decide though. You can't say that people who get abortions are simply 'avoiding responsibility' and if they are-- who are you to decide that it's not a valid reason?

A woman should have a right to do what they wish with their bodies and they surely don't need kooky blow-hards impressing their misguided beliefs on them.


What a sad way to justify killing an unborn baby.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


No matter what you do, you can't eliminate choice. You could have all the laws, and regulations in the world, but you could still choose to do whatever you want, unless your like strapped down or something. So I think it is obsurd that we actually try to limit what people can choose to do. I think we are all more similar than different, and when it comes down to it, we all want the same thing. We can't go about life, thinking that we are obligated to save every living creature. Thats just not how life works, and if we managed to accomplish that how could we survive. We have to kill life to eat? What makes killing that life, any different from killing a fetus? Why are humans held to a higher pedastool then any other form of life?



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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reply to post by v1rtu0s0
 


Why? The human brain is not unique and special until well after birth. Before that it's primary role is to observe and mimic, exactly as an ape brain works. Plus its a parasite through and through even after it's born. There's no legitimate reason that the presence of brain activity at such a young age is in any way deterministic for rights.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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reply to post by relpobre000
 


I already did, but I am happy you thought about that, too.


Just so you know, I prayed that you would consider the issue with an open mind - not at all thinking ill of you for your perspective.
edit on 1/27/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

What a sad way to justify killing an unborn baby.


You'll forgive me if I don't respect the opinion of someone who thinks the child of a raped woman becomes her 'responsibility'.

@sad_eyed_lady:

And I'm sure that prayer was as effective as all the others that are said each day

edit on 27-1-2012 by relpobre000 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:42 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 





No matter what you do, you can't eliminate choice. You could have all the laws, and regulations in the world, but you could still choose to do whatever you want, unless your like strapped down or something. So I think it is obsurd that we actually try to limit what people can choose to do. I think we are all more similar than different, and when it comes down to it, we all want the same thing. We can't go about life, thinking that we are obligated to save every living creature. Thats just not how life works, and if we managed to accomplish that how could we survive. We have to kill life to eat? What makes killing that life, any different from killing a fetus? Why are humans held to a higher pedastool then any other form of life?


Then what if I want to kill you? Why should I not be allowed to do that?



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


And why is it her responsiblitiy? Because its her body right. Let me ask you this, should a person have the right to choose whether he/she will live?



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:43 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by relpobre000
 


Society gets to decide. Not me.

I say only for rape and threats to health because that's when a loss of two lives will incur if one lives, or where rights were violated.

It's not ignorant to say some things should not have a choice. Should I have the choice to be able to kill you just because I don't like you? I don't see why that choice should exist.


As the both of us are Ron Paul supporters. I have a question about "Liberty" for you.

You say 'on some things people shouldn't have a choice'.

But one of the basic tenants of Libertarianism is (SHOULD BE) the understanding of terms like 'coercion' and 'non aggression'.

If one doesn't have the CHOICE to decide if their LIFE would be affected in a negative way by a biological process which they don't expect or plan for, is COERCION or the use of AGGRESSION against them, by way of imprisonment or punishment....the "Libertarian" or Voluntary thing to do.

A Voluntary society does not impede on personal decisions when it has not been PROVEN that the other 'life' is a conscious being or human. Forcing someone to carry a child to full term against their wishes, with the threat of aggression and duress, is at odds with these tenants.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by PaxVeritas
 


People don't plan to go bankrupt. People don't plan to get into car accidents. People don't plan a lot of things.

Don't matter.

Liberty is not the same as being able to do whatever you wish.

Liberty means the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Take note of why life comes first.


You don't get to choose to kill your accidents. You live with them. Liberty without consequences is not liberty. It is called childhood.

Now if you're going to die or your rights have been violated, then you can speak. If you're running away from your mistakes, sucks to be you.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by relpobre000
 


Speaking of propaganda, Planned Parenthood is known for outright lying and they have been video taped.
My sister was told her unborn baby was just a clump of cells and suffered terrible depression when she found out it had a heart beat.

edit on 1/27/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by relpobre000
You'll forgive me if I don't respect the opinion of someone who thinks the child of a raped woman becomes her 'responsibility'.


Why? As I posted earlier, if a storm tears your roof off, do you tear down the house or do you take responsibility and repair the roof?

Rape is an ugly thing. And as much as it gets bandied about on these abortion threads it must happen alot! But is that justification enough to kill the unborn child?

He/she is an innocent. Yet they suffer the worst punishment of all. They don't get to live.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:48 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


You shouldn't be allowed for obvious reasons. But YOU can still make that choice, and so far YOU haven't, so maybe you should tell me why YOU have made that choice for YOURSELF. I think it is innate in us to not kill other things, because I believe us to all be the same thing. But life is about life, just as much as it is death. Do we know death is the end, or if it is just some progression to a higher level, or a transition, we have no idea. The point is, if we want to eliminate choice, you better get every human strapped down heavily to a chair somewhere miles underneath the surface, or just kill everyone, those are your only options. It would be great to live in a world, where the scenario of getting an abortion wouldn't exist, because women would only get pregnant if they chose to. But untill then, we can't go out of our way to make sure every living organism has its chance. Its not our obligation, and not our duty to do so.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:50 PM
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Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by beezzer
 


And why is it her responsiblitiy? Because its her body right. Let me ask you this, should a person have the right to choose whether he/she will live?


Arbitrary. Should I be given the power to choose whether you live?

If no, why not?

Just because the growing baby is using the womb of her mother, the mother can indisciminately kill at a whim?

Seems rather barbaric to me.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by andersensrm
 


Well then I'm going to disappoint you, because if I were a women and got raped, I would choose to murder the rapist. And to hell with the consequences. If I knew a rapist whom was proud of their actions, I, as a man, would find no reason why I shouldn't have the choice to kill that man.

Fact is the only thing that would save that rapist from murder would be the law. And nothing else.

That is what liberty is. Law protecting people. Fair trials and all that jazz. You don't go and kill people just because they wronged you. You trial them by the population.

People are not the same thing. Some people just want to murder because its fun. And you're telling me they should be able to?

You, sir, are incredibly naive.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by sad_eyed_lady
 


No one forced your sister to have an abortion. So why are you so bent on taking away the rights of other women because your sister couldn't handle her decision? A person in a hospital in a vegetative state also has a heart beat.

Once again your powers of anecdotal evidence are impressive but lack any real substantiation....



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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This thread took an interesting turn "God given right's" since all rights American's come from him/her by whatever name you call him/her.

Are people really trying to sit there and say Since God gave me right's he/she also gave us the right to kill a child.


The current state of the union is Government give's right's and takes them away with abortion God gave you life gave us the ability to procreate and Government give's us the right to kill that life.


Hmmmm.



posted on Jan, 27 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by PaxVeritas
 


People don't plan to go bankrupt. People don't plan to get into car accidents. People don't plan a lot of things.

Don't matter.

Liberty is not the same as being able to do whatever you wish.

Liberty means the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Take note of why life comes first.


You don't get to choose to kill your accidents. You live with them. Liberty without consequences is not liberty. It is called childhood.

Now if you're going to die or your rights have been violated, then you can speak. If you're running away from your mistakes, sucks to be you.


I agree that there is a major lack of accoutability around the world right now. No one wants to be responsible for what they do, and they want the government or somebody else to pay, or take care of it. I think this is a horrible mentality, and it is running rampant. I don't think that women should just be able to abort their pregnancy whenever, just because its inconvenient. But theres another life to take into account, and if she has to be forced into giving birth then she should not be keeping the child, as she didn't want it, and what kind of life would that lead to for a kid? So it is a hard question to answer. Perhaps if we had some way, of making it impossible to get pregnant unless qualified, or something, that could prove to eliminate this whole debate, but of course then you start the new one.

About the definition of liberty, you said that "Liberty means the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness" not trying to attack, but using the word your trying to define in the definition itself is not a very good way of doing it. Liberty is the freedom to do what is deemed acceptable by society.



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