Hello Mr. president, Abortion Is Murder! Life Begins At Fertilization! That's A Fact [snip]!

No, it is not a fact. How can you state that itis a "fact" that life begins at conception. Perhaps life begins the same way it ends, with a breath. What if life begins at the first breath and ends with the last. Could you imagine if all those unwanted babies were saved? Could you imagine the population explosion? 16 years or less, and all those babies may be pregnant with unwanted babies of their own. I don't believe a mass of cells is actually human life, no more that a single sperm is a life. If you believe that, then billions are murdered every time somebody has sex. Timing is everything when it comes to abortion, it has to be done very early, the morning after would be best. That is, unless you know where to find good homes for all those unwanted babies. Once an embryo develops actual brain function and a heartbeat, I think that it is morally too late for abortion as an option.

The whole argument about when life begins is irrelevant.

When did life begin for the animals held in tightly confined cages, in horrid inhumane conditions, only to be extremely fattened up and slaughtered? When did their life begin?

When did life begin for the innocent Iraqi child sitting in a van with her father moments before an apache helicopter opens fire?

Does the issue of life come into play in these circumstances or do we simply except that sometimes life isn't pretty, and bad things happen?

Who honestly thinks a woman who has an abortion does not feel that life inside her? Of course she feels it. Of course she understands the decision to end that life. But sometimes tough decisions have to be made. Who should have the authority to decide? Big government? A pro-lifer who has never stepped in those shoes? People have to make their own decisions and live with it. It is not easy for any woman and it is not without a profound acceptance of what she is doing.

Who gives a damn about abortion. You still don't get it do you? It's not your body, neither is the embryo inside the womans body. All your moralistic crap has no value. It's not your business. It's her body, it's her life, it's her choice.

Stop messing with people their lives and get a hobby you hypocritical hag.

reply to post by paxnatus


You speak of education.

But science has not decided when human life truly begins. Nor will it for a long time. But life beginning at fertilization? That's only proposed by religious organizations with an agenda.

You'd think from some of the outrage that the president has mandated that those against abortion must now have one.

I really don't understand the fascination some have with what others choose for themselves and their family.

reply to post by paxnatus
Who are you to think it's okay for you to force your morality and religious beliefs on others? If you don't believe in abortion, don't get one. I get so tired of hearing people who think they are morally superior to others, condemn those who don't see things the way they do. It sounds very Christian of you. Guess what? Not everyone is a Christian. That's a very good thing

Maybe you should worry more about the innocent killing of people already in this World.

Originally posted by Darkmask
reply to post by paxnatus

 

Who are you to think it's okay for you to force your morality and religious beliefs on others? If you don't believe in abortion, don't get one. I get so tired of hearing people who think they are morally superior to others, condemn those who don't see things the way they do. It sounds very Christian of you. Guess what? Not everyone is a Christian. That's a very good thing

Maybe you should worry more about the innocent killing of people already in this World.

Well said ! If I could star you twice, I would.
And to add to your last statement, OP, maybe you should worry more about those kids in orphanages, temp homes, and stuck in the system because their parents didn't want them.

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by windword

 

Perhaps if these choices were not available then we would place a higher value on human life..

Pax

If these choices weren't available then we'd have millions more people on the planet that couldn't be fed or taken care of. You think everyone of those that would have been would be accepted by their parents if they were forced to have a child they didn't want?

Abortion to me is the choice of the woman, it's her body. You can't dictate what someone does to their own body. I do agree that yes at certain points they shouldn't be available. I think that if a parent has a child that will never live a normal life they should have that option. I know people just like another member posted whose religion dictated it was wrong to terminate yet her child she knew would not make it long after birth. That is traumatizing to lose a child like that esp when you knew what was gonna happen to begin with. Nothing prepares you for that!

But it is perfectly okay to kill people for oil or because they don't call their God "God"
Either a fetus is born to a mother who either can't care for it or doesn't love it and it lives a dead life or kill it before it can enter this world.

Pro-lifers are usually very conservative. A strong conservative view is pro death penalty. If you want an unborn fetus to carry full term, then you need to accept that that means you let a criminal live, too. Is it wrong to put down a pet that is in excruciating pain, too? Should we let them suffer? Just let a woman get a healthy, safe abortion instead of forcing her to kill the collection of cells herself and, probably along with it, herself.

Also, if a woman was raped and got pregnant, is she responsible for letting that happen? I already read your last thread. If you hate women controlling their own bodies so much, do something about it instead of rant to us. If you don't want to hear what we have to say, why would you think we would want to hear your opinions? Every man/woman to him/herself, okay?

Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by KilrathiLG

 

I encourage any member of ATS to read what Roe vs. Wade REALLY says. It says life begins when a baby is born. That means during the second and third trimester that "thing" you feel inside of you, is NOTHING.

How very sad, and I just may try to get Roe vs. Wade repealed!

Pax

So you are in favor of reducing a woman to an incubator.
Enforced pregnancy is in direct violation of that woman's right to her own body.
Does the power of forcing a woman to be pregnant please you?
And later maybe you will be screaming because the unwanted child is being abused.

Here's something I've never understood about the "life begins at fertilization" argument. If that's the case, then why don't any of us remember being in the womb? Heck, I remember my first bath, why not the womb?

reply to post by paxnatus


Since Roe vs Wade [1973] we have had 15 years of Democratic Presidents and 23 years of Republican Presidents. None could do anything about Roe vs Wade, so voting based on their stated political position on abortions is pointless. The Republicans use the issue of abortion to get the religious right to vote R, so they really don't want a repeal. The one issue voters, voting based on Abortion rights, do no one any favors because they are voting for people who have a vested interest in prolonging this issue and have no real intention of changing anything. I recommend that you don't waste a vote based on this issue.

Originally posted by windword
AGAIN!

Didn't you like the outcome of the anti-Obama thread you posted yesterday on this very same subject?

I reiterate my opinion. I applaud Obama for standing up, especially during an election year, for women's right when it comes to reproductive rights!

You may say abortion is immoral, but I disagree that it's murder! When life begins is up for debate. The woman's right to have a say over what is going on with her body is her choice and HER choice only!

I'm sick and tired of your pretense of moral high ground and insults to people who disagree with your opinions. Your opinions are not fact and are not supported by the vast majority of Americans or of medical research.

Stay out mine and my daughters uteri!

If this issue is SO CUT AND DRIED,, then a man should NEVER be held accountable for children, seeing as he has NO SAY since it is her body, please do not involve men or ANYONE ELSE in these issues ever again !!!

reply to post by Crakeur


ah man i was going to post, that, oh well, tru story here.

on another note, abortion isn't new and isn't going anywhere regardless of the law, time,place.
it's a personal choice, if there no doctors take the 12 step program (fall down a flight of stairs face down)

plus there plenty of instance that pro lifers never comprehend the rape thing is meh but an okay reason, but honestly the best reason are thing like Disease and deformity, or health issues from either mother or baby
like Africa is a great example half them kids, probably born with aids/hiv, or will end up dead within a few years anyway from overpopulation of shanty towns.

Huntington's chorea - is a terminal disease that is hereditary passed down THROUGH predominantly the mothers side, don't ya think people should have a choice to get an abortion in this case, it effects motor control and brains function and pretty much ends your life in you mid 40's give or take,
I know 5 people that have died from this disease all of them got it from their mothers,

reply to post by beezzer


Earlier you stated that in the case of rape, the responsibility is forced upon the woman. How would an abortion in a case such as that be the government allowing one to get out of something their own actions created?

And, more to my point, that's the whole problem for most 'pro-choicers': (shudder). Why should government decide what our personal responsibilities are?

What if someone already has responsibilities? Caring for an elderly or sick family member, a single mother already struggling to feed children, or, hell, some girl whose only way to pay for college is on a cheerleading scholarship? For some, those responsibilities supercede an unwanted pregnancy. For others, they end up gladly adding a new responsibility to their list.

Why should the government get to decide the hierarchy of personal responsibility? Why does an embryo rank above those listed above? Is it law to go forth and procreate?

To me, a law like this is just as much a symptom of a 'nanny state' as any other I've seen.

Originally posted by GrinchNoMore

Originally posted by windword
AGAIN!

Didn't you like the outcome of the anti-Obama thread you posted yesterday on this very same subject?

I reiterate my opinion. I applaud Obama for standing up, especially during an election year, for women's right when it comes to reproductive rights!

You may say abortion is immoral, but I disagree that it's murder! When life begins is up for debate. The woman's right to have a say over what is going on with her body is her choice and HER choice only!

I'm sick and tired of your pretense of moral high ground and insults to people who disagree with your opinions. Your opinions are not fact and are not supported by the vast majority of Americans or of medical research.

Stay out mine and my daughters uteri!

If this issue is SO CUT AND DRIED,, then a man should NEVER be held accountable for children, seeing as he has NO SAY since it is her body, please do not involve men or ANYONE ELSE in these issues ever again !!!

edit on 26-1-2012 by GrinchNoMore because: edit

I almost feel like a jerk agreeing with you but you do make a good point. If the man didn't want the baby and it's her decision because its her body, it would be true as well that if she decides to keep the child it is hers to deal with and not his.

Originally posted by chrismarco
reply to post by windword

 

Hello,

If you do not agree that a baby not in the second or third trimester is not technically murder what would happen if somebody assaulted a women in the beginning of her pregnancy where she miscarriages...is that technically murder if a tiny fetus dies as a result of the injuries sustained or do we pick and choose what murder is to help us sleep at night?

I'm prochoice but I never thought of this scenario. Thanks for giving me something to think about

Murder ?? By legal definition murder is "The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse". So i would say abortion is killing something yes but to say its murder in all cases, i think not. Killing happens all around us all the time, i see a spider inside my house then i instantly fear for my children and get the spray out and kill it, thats not murder. I'm am by no means comparing a spider to a unborn child just making a point on definition... This issue will stay with us until we are advanced enough to properly define and prove when a unborn child becomes concious and/or receives a soul if we can also prove souls exist. Until then this thread is solely your opinion(like it or not) based on the opinions of some educated people available at the moment and certainly not based on facts. I certainly would not feel comfortable having an abortion but will not agree with your opinion until you provide me of proof (not a professional opinion from a phd) on when an unborn childs gains conciousness or a soul. On a side not i just finished reading The Abduction Enigma by Kevin Randle, Russ Estes and William Cone who are all educated people, in the book they all believe personally in the ufos etc but believe that the memories from abductees of a bright light and prodes and needles are more likely the forgotten memories of coming through the birth canal and the needles(vitamin k, vaccinations) and tests that follow.Crazy i know. This would suggest conciousness happen obviously pre birth but is an opinion and certainly not proof. Anyway enough rant from me. Peace and tolerance people and bashers be constructive and polite in your opinions and arguements as no one likes people who denigrate others wether they agree with your opinion or not.

No one can control who can do what anyhow, we've all learned this in the complete failure of the war on drugs. People are going to do what they want to do, and that's it.

I personally think aborting a life is wrong, the couple wanting the procedure was irresponsible about getting pregnant in the first place.

But again, we're not here to tell people what they can and can't do. So it's time to stop controlling others and worry about setting a good example instead.

shut up. babies aint even gotta mind to think when their aborted. god damn tree huggers. go eat some paper, its made from trees