Mitt Romney and the LDS debate, page 1

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Found this article and thought I would add a few cents of my own. The article focuses on tithing, but there are underlying nuances to the commentary throughout that I would like to discuss. I am not a bigot or a basher so don't take this thread as a flame, I could seriously care less who and what people choose to believe in; it is their business as long as it stays out of my business.

I live right in the heart of LDS country, in what is for lack of a better word the bible belt of the northwest. Being a non-member and growing up in this area I have had quite a bit of first hand experience being an outsider or 'gentile' as the running vernacular describes me, and I can tell you that, regardless of what is implored of its members through doctrine, the hardcore LDS that I have experienced are anything but altruistic unless it is to others of their own faith. Yes the church body as a whole does conduct quite a lot of humanitarian aid but that is organized from its central bureaucracy and does not translate very well.

"I feel it can be misconstrued if the sums of money he's giving to the church struck observers as unusual or as indicating some particular loyalty that threatens his independence as a politician,"

This is not an unfounded statement or concern for anyone who has had any amount of prolonged exposure to LDS culture.

They are self serving first and not last, they use their own doctors, lawyers, dentists, stores, you name it. I am not jaded I am simply passing along my own experience which is far from unique in my home town. I can remember at least half a dozen occasions when I was growing up where I was not allowed to attend certain birthday parties because I was a non-member. It is superficially very outward and generous in appearance but internalized as very exclusive by its followers. If this man makes it to presidency I can guarantee you that his faith and his loyalty to it will absolutely come first. There is talk that he wants to eliminate pornography? That is just the tip of the iceberg folks and I don't doubt for second that he means it.

I made a commitment to my church a long, long time ago that I would give 10 percent of my income to the church. And I followed through on that commitment," Romney said. "And, hopefully, as people look at various individuals running for president, they'd be pleased with someone who made a promise to God and kept that promise."

That is not the only commitment he has made, this kind of steadfast, long term following is virtuous to a point but there is a fine line between the faithful and the blind. It is a fact that LDS almost exclusively vote republican, not as a matter of being informed politically and making decisions accordingly, but because the church has endorsed the republican party. I have never heard its members in the company of their peers speak poorly of the POTUS either (republican or otherwise) because there is a sort of holy connection or divine mechanism behind his elected status, it is the will of god that decides our leaders not the people or their parliament. That kind of internalized, hand-of-god-working-through-me belief structure has no place in a position of power where public policy is being decided I don't care what faith its centered around.

Of course it could do this country some good to have a more holistically faithful and spiritual nexus at the heart of our political body but I am not so sure that this is the answer we need right now. With that i will close my pseudo rant for the day, please dont take it the wrong way and if I have offended anybody I am truly sorry. Lets discuss it, I am totally open for discourse on this one because I as well as a great many other Americans are dubious about this.


cs

reply to post by clowdstalker

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Not that I would ever vote for Mitt Romney (even if he were the ONLY candidate), I'm not at all bothered about his tithing. It's his money and his choice. Freedom of religion.

I am bothered that he paid just over 14% on his taxes.

reply to post by clowdstalker

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I grew up in the LDS church (no longer a member), and while a good deal of what you describe can be true for certain areas it is not true of the LDS culture in general.

hardcore LDS are anything but altruistic unless it is to others of their own faith. Yes the church body as a whole does conduct quite a lot of humanitarian aid but that is organized from its central bureaucracy and does not translate very well to the congregation at large.

Well I assume you grew up in a very fundamental area in Utah or Arizona, because what you describe is not true AT ALL when it comes to the majority of members.

I can remember at least half a dozen occasions when I was growing up where I was not allowed to attend certain birthday parties because I was a non-member, the mentality is that deeply set.

Like I said above I grew up in the faith but I left and I don't consider myself a Christian. I was taken into the home of a member who did not even know me, he gave me a bed to sleep in and gave me food to eat regardless of me being a "Son of Perdition". I cant count how many times I have seen members of the LDS faith helping strangers and those in need simply because they want to, not because it is demanded of them.

They are self serving first and not last, they use their own doctors, lawyers, dentists, stores, you name it.

Again not completely true, if you live in an area that's very very fundamentalist I could see it but the majority of Mormons I know shop at Wal*Mart or another big grocery chain because they need to save money too feed the 7 kids they have.

It is a fact that Mormons almost exclusively vote republican

Again not true, the man and his family who took me in for example were staunch Democrats and very active members in the church. But the majority of Mormon voters are Republican.

not as a matter of being informed politically and making decisions accordingly, but because the church has endorsed the republican party.

Absurd. Not saying that the Church is not political but they have never endorsed any party they are politically neutral they have always been (for the last 100 years anyway), they have only supported the positions which reflect the values of the church. Their influence over politics in Utah is vast (hey thats how democracy works), and they have done some pretty under handed things in the political realm, but let me put it this way Romney is a very moderate republican IMO and he will still get the majority of the Mormon vote, not because hes republican but because hes Mormon.

Its members will never ever in the company of their peers speak poorly of the POTUS either (republican or otherwise) because there is a sort of holy connection or divine mechanism behind his elected status, it is the will of god that decides our leaders not the people or their parliament.

BS, absolute BS. you must be hanging out with some of the most fundamentalist Mormons around man . I hear people complain about Obama all day long who are Mormon, I heard people complain about Bush all the time and they were Mormon, I heard people complain about Clinton all the time and they were Mormon (my first exposure to politics). Most Mormons do have a belief that the US has an important role in the end times and Some believe that one day there will be a type of Mormon dominion before Christs return. But they do not worship the POTUS

With that i will close my pseudo rant for the day, please dont take it the wrong way and if I have offended anybody I am truly sorry.

No offense taken and I hope I wasn't to harsh in my reply, I just think you do not have a good view on how the LDS faith really is.

reply to post by clowdstalker

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I lived in a heavy LDS area.

As a result?

I now have friends for life. Sorry you had a difficult time. I knew nothing but nice people, great neighbors, and awesome cookouts.

When I showed up, I'd say, "Who's got the beer?"

Did I mention the sense of humour?

Lets focus on the policies. Romneys policies. Leave church at home.

reply to post by clowdstalker

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I understand what you're saying, and I agree. But what has you thinking that this may be a problem for Romney? I've seen no indications that his faith is an issue. That it plays a role in his thinking? I don't see how it can't... Otherwise, what's the point in following a certain faith?

As long as he serves the needs of the majority of people, I fail to see how the source of his dictates matter?

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