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Did Carl Sagan know something?

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posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:17 PM
reply to post by JustJoe

You say you've read countless books by experts about these things and I am just wondering what makes someone an expert on crop circles. How does one become an expert in that field ?
Is there a course for this at the university ?

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:18 PM

Originally posted by BBalazs
reply to post by muzzleflash

Yeah unexplained means he believed.
Maybe for you.

He did believe some things remained unexplained.
I quoted the exact page numbers from his book.

Pg 82-83 from Demon-Haunted World proves this.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:20 PM
Carl Sagan on prejudice:
". I don't think that scientists are prejudiced to begin with. Prejudice means pre-judging. They're post-judice. After examining the evidence they decide there's nothing to it. There's a big difference between prejudice and post-judice."

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:21 PM
reply to post by karen61057

whatever entity has a genome length of 4.29billion bases I guess has the average height of 6.5, it is weird that the information sent was not of the human beings we call ourselves

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:23 PM
reply to post by muzzleflash

Yeah, and!????
That didnt mean he believed in them, thats your leap of faith.
I believe the creation of the universe is not yet fully explained.
And any statement he made he said that. He was in effect being nice.
I already linked and quoted 2 interwievs where he makes his view clear.
If you want to skew that, fine.
Do it.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:24 PM

Originally posted by karen61057
reply to post by JustJoe

You say you've read countless books by experts about these things and I am just wondering what makes someone an expert on crop circles. How does one become an expert in that field ?
Is there a course for this at the university ?

Special Pleading?

So anyone who claims a specific crop circle is anomalous cannot possibly be an expert right?
I agree, what qualifies them for expert status?

But in the same vein, you have been claiming that it is absurd to assume it was anything except humans creating them, such as in this post of yours:

Originally posted by karen61057 reply to post by interupt42
Right, travel all that way and then leave an ambiguous message in a wheat field that will be debated and never proven to have come from you. Way to go aliens. If they're out there they are freaking jokesters and fools. This amounts to a cosmic, ringing the doorbell and running away.

Originally posted by karen61057 reply to post by AwakeinNM
Ha ! 21 million future humans and none posturing to be heard and seen ???? Not possible. LOL.

What is your "special" qualification to know it isn't possible?
What is your qualification to know that your disbelief amounts to the only reasonable position?

That sword is double-edged and the street goes both ways.
edit on 25-1-2012 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:26 PM

The message was sent during the dedication of a major upgrade to the Arecibo radio telescope in Puerto Rico on the afternoon of Nov. 16, 1974, and contained some very basic information about the human race. It included representations of the fundamental chemicals of life, the formula for DNA, a crude diagram of our solar system and simple pictures of a human being and the Arecibo telescope. "It was strictly a symbolic event, to show that we could do it," explains Donald Campbell, Cornell University professor of astronomy, who was a research associate at the Arecibo Observatory at the time. Arecibo Observatory is operated by the National Astronomy and Ionosphere Center, managed by Cornell University for the National Science Foundation. The real purpose of the message was to call attention to the tremendous power of the radar transmitter newly installed at Arecibo and the ability of the telescope's 1,000-foot diameter dish antenna to project a powerful signal into space. But many of those present took the event seriously, according to Harold Craft, Cornell's vice president for services and facilities, who was then director of the Arecibo Observatory. "We translated the radio-frequency message into a warbling audio tone that was broadcast over speakers at the ceremony. When it started, much of the audience spontaneously got up and walked out of the tent and gazed up at the telescope."

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:29 PM
First, I must thank you for the wonderful thread OP!
This is all familiar to me, and I think to all of us, but I never connected this information.
Absolutely interesting!

And everybody who thinks the crop circles that OP presented to us, are men made, are absolutely naive and ignorant!

This are the most important words!
Beware the bearers of FALSE gifts and their BROKEN PROMISES. Much PAIN but still time. There is GOOD out there. We OPose DECEPTION. Conduit CLOSING.

If you just stop and think for a minute, you'll see a very big connection between this words and what's going on in the world at this very moment!

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:32 PM
Posted by Karl 12 many years ago on ATS:

Originally posted by karl 12 Here's an interesting article written by Carl Sagan in 1962 where he speculates about the 'strong probability' of the Earth being visited by ETs every few thousand years.

Prof Says Beings From Outer Space Have Visited Earth Associated Press, November 26, 1962

LOS ANGELES. (AP) - Some of the best scientific minds in the country were stumped when a slender, dark-haired young man chalked on the blackboard this equation:

N equals R FP NE FL FI FC L.
The speaker was Dr. Carl Sagan, a 28 year-old assistant professor of astronomy at Harvard University.
His audience consisted of several hundred members of the American Rocket Society, gathered for his luncheon address. The equation was his way of expressing the mathematical probability that intelligent beings from outer space have visited earth.

Sagan soberly explained that in his equation N Stands for the number of advanced technical civilizations in the universe possessing the capability of interstellar communication.
R is the mean rate of star formation averaged over the lifetime of the galaxy.
FP is the fraction of stars with planetary systems.
NE is the mean number of planets in each system with environments favorable for the origin of life.
FL is the fraction of such planets on which life does develop.
FI is the fraction of such inhabited planets on which intelligent life with manipulative abilities rises during the lifetime of the local sun.
FC is the fraction of planets populated by intelligent beings on which advanced technical civilizations rises.
And L is the lifetime of this technical civilization.

Sagan said information in his formula is based on current estimates by astronomers. In making calculations, he assigned each symbol an arbitrary numerical value. As expressed in numbers, Sagan said, the formula means that at least 1 million of the 100 billion stars in our Milky Way galaxy have planets which have developed civilizations capable of travel between the stars.

"Let's say that each of these civilizations sends out one interstellar expedition per year," he said. "That means that every star, such as our sun, would be visited at least once every million years. In some systems where these beings found life, they would make more frequent visits. There's a strong probability, then, that they have visited earth every few thousand years.

"It is not out of the question that artifacts of these visits still exist or even that some kind of base is maintained, possibly automatically, within the solar system, to provide continuity for successive expeditions. "Because of weathering and the possibility of detection and interference by the inhabitants of earth it would be preferable not to erect such a base on the earth's surface. The moon seems one reasonable alternative."

"Forthcoming photographic reconnaissance of the moon from space vehicles - particularly of the back - might bear these possibilities in mind." At a news conference Sagan predicted man himself would be capable of interstellar flight at close to the speed of light "within a century or two." Asked if he believed in flying saucers, he said: "I do believe there are objects which have hot be identified."

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:35 PM
reply to post by muzzleflash

This is called speculation, and in fact thats what he says (probabillty).
This doesnt imply belief.
Seti will say the same thing in probabilty, yet dont take "ufo" people seriously.
Made my point.
So thats where you took your leap of faith.
On probabilities.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:37 PM
I sometimes wonder if Carl Sagan wasn't part of what was the equivalent of a Majestic 12 group, and given access to some of the government's intelligence information concerning "aliens" -- extraterrestrial, extra-dimensional, or otherwise. Seeing as how widespread panic is usually something a government wants to avoid, I don't find it too ridiculous that they would have a group in place -- formal or informal -- consisting of a variety of government and military people, along with popular public figures, who could be used to present information to the public about some possibly panic-inducing thing like aliens. Sagan would be a particularly good choice because of his slow, sleepy style and overall perceived trustworthiness.

If that was the case, Sagan died before the aliens did something that couldn't be ignored or explained away. They still haven't. What information was he given? I don't know. Maybe they presented him with data, and he gave them suggestions as to what it could mean. No matter what, the idea would be for him to be there "just in case."

So who is in his MJ-12 spot these days? My guess would be either Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Michio Kaku. Have they been contacted and told "The Truth?" Maybe. Maybe not.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:56 PM

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by VoidHawk

Whenever I see disinfo at work (see above) I know we're on to something.

And here's meat and veg of it all.

An opposing view us not disinfo, please act like an adult and take on criticism with maturity.

Honestly there is no reason for criticism on this thread... Period! If it conflicts with your veiws simply move on to the next thread. Simple as that. Why stick around and criticise the OP when clearly your veiws differ? You won't change his mind and he wont change yours. So move on already!! The longer you hang around this thread the more it does look like you are spouting disinformation... Don't reply because you won't get one back from me. It's just a waste of time.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 05:01 PM

Originally posted by freedom12
Excellent post OP.

I need to read it again slower and cross-reference with some other material before I can comment further.

S&F for you.

LMAO has any one else notice ... every one post before they read this.. and 90% of the time dont ever come back to post again.... I can find a few on almost every thread..

Here is my version .. I just read the topic and wanted to SnF this for you so.. maybe so one else will read it while i get on with my day.. btw love the pics of the circles ..this is about crop circles LOL amirite...

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 05:06 PM

Originally posted by RedParrotHead
Besides which, if they were so close why wait so long to respond? Sagan was left hanging for an answer I guess, pretty rude of the aliens.

Sorry, but it doesn't ad up. Sure whoever created the "response" needed to have a lot of scientific & biological knowledge... but these ETs would have impressed more with a quicker answer because after 27 years some bright folks with the internet could have came up with it.
edit on 1/25/2012 by RedParrotHead because: typo

Maybe it wasn't the ETs that took so long....maybe they replied soon after they received it...say like 13.5 years after it was beamed towards M13. Add the other 13.5 years for the return trip for the reply, assuming the speed of light is the same wherever you are in this known universe, and you'll have the 27-year delay. I say let's point ol' Kepler in the general direction of M13 and instead of looking at solar systems 600 light years away as they have been doing so far, look for the stars 13 or so light years out. There shouldn't be too many candidates within that narrow window of distance and direction. Look for ones with the "Goldilocks" planets...and say hello to our silicon-based cousins.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 05:14 PM

Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by v1rtu0s0

I disagree, all it takes is planning, it's not like the makers were out there nutting it out as they go. Once the complexities are sorted out on paper beforehand, the crop circle is the easy bit.

sorry not relevant now as the debate has been covered already (with further reading) and im just raking old coals. sorry guys. as you were.
edit on 25-1-2012 by chaztekno because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 05:20 PM

Originally posted by MeMyselfI

Originally posted by VoidHawk
The area showing our solar system is slightly different.

Don't know about all of this post, but the part (above) about the solar system depiction caught my attention...

The reply, showing Earth, Mars, and Jupiter raised up, AND Jupiter "glowing" made me think of *2001: A Space Odyssey*! Recall in the sequel, "2010", Jupiter is turned into a new "sun" so that our system becomes a binary star system. This could also (maybe) make Mars habitable. To me this looks like what the reply is showing us...

To me this looks like Jupiter is raised up, but the planet itself isn't inhabited it's moons are.
edit on 25-1-2012 by PityTPTB because: Added comment

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 05:31 PM
In other words, what you are trying to get at is: can we trust the message of the crop circles, and are they telling the truth? Carl Sagan, is he trying to send messages from beyond the grave that aliens exist? That we are not alone?

Carl Sagan was a brilliant man. Brilliant enough to know who *not* to participate with for the sake of mankind and this planet. For his life's profession he chose to write and discuss intelligence in the universe, and to cause others to think differently about their existence within this giant cosmos. Considering his literature, his knowledge of man's condition on earth is epic. A scientific saint.

Of course he knows something, and he knew what to share and what to conceal in plain sight. It's all there in his books. The potential for another race is there. The fact that they beam out grain fields with their technology doesn't make them superior, I believe. Aliens may have egos too. Like the human race, other beings may be weaponized to counter other species. In other words, they may exist, but they may not necessarily intend to be your friends.

A race of peoples from another dimension or galaxy, or timeline, come from a solar system where they inhabit most of the planets, and they are coming here to paint in the grain with their lazer beams? I think not. The same beams they use to warp the grain, stealthily, they may be performing on peoples of Earth without their knowledge or consent. So better a question is not if they exist, what do they look like, but since they exist, who do they work for?

It's a take me to your leader moment.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 06:06 PM
I have read some of Carl's books. Loved the two I read and I have to say...I genuinely like the guy. If you have never read up on Carl here is a link.

Before you knock him try and get to know him better and read some of his books. He is definitely no dummy. I would even venture to say that he knows a lot more than we know. With that said do not think for a minute we have not come in contact with other life forms. Is it not obvious? I think so.... human experience in bulk of millions saying the same thing raises my eyebrow.

Everything is speculation with respect to what we think we know. We are learning...we do not know all the answer and the answers to a lot of questions will always change.

Carl respected the Universe and God. He only gave respect to the latter because he didn't know. He was more Agnostic if anything and he was a skeptic in nature and I guess that is why I relate with him so much. I too am skeptic. It is either fact or it isn't.
He wrote this about skepticism:

My parents were not scientists. They knew almost nothing about science. But in introducing me simultaneously to skepticism and to wonder, they taught me the two uneasily cohabiting modes of thought that are central to the scientific method.[7]

We are trying to learn who we are and what surrounds us. We have a lot to learn. As we evolve, if given the chance we will grow in knowledge. For now...we are like little peons. Ha! And... We probably are in the whole scheme of things.

With what I think I know to be true....there is no doubt in my mind we received a reply from "Aliens". If I didn't think I was on a Planet that was rotating in air at a rapid speed as if I was a little atom...I would say you are full of it.
Yeah...I think I will believe my human species is NOT alone.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 06:11 PM
reply to post by MamaJ

Page 3 of this thread...

AM: Did Carl Sagan collaborate with you on designing the message?

FD: Carl Sagan wasn’t part of that, actually. It was constructed by several of the scientists on the staff at Arecibo, but mainly by me. But Carl Sagan did play a role after it was constructed. I took him to lunch one day and presented him with the message already decoded. I asked, “Can you understand this?” This was a test to see if the message was understandable to a very knowledgeable Earth scientist. We eventually learned that nobody could interpret all of the message; each scientist only could interpret the part relevant to their discipline. So Carl got the numbers right and the planetary system right, but he didn’t get the DNA chemistry.

posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 06:17 PM
reply to post by dplum517

Coming from a chemtrail believer your words are pretty hollow, ESPECIALLY when you write evidence in caps, as if you regularly present pertinent evidence to a debate, like presenting EVIDENCE that crop circles are not man made...

Oh wait...

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