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Did Carl Sagan know something?

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posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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reply to post by Dukesy
 


MIT students probably dont know squat about making crop circles. Just because someone is smart does not mean they can do everything.
Just because someone is at MIT doesnt make they a genious. They are not Gods they are just students.




posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by theBigToe
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Do you think Roswell was really a UFO too?


Straw Man

Keep those logical fallacies coming. It really helps.



A straw man is a component of an argument and is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by replacing it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Your posts dont really make any sense....



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:55 PM
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Originally posted by Chadwickus
reply to post by Helious
 


I submit that those dismissing that crop circles could be man made are close minded.

Like the OP, who felt the need to mention that "two drunken men couldn't do this" in his opening posts.
edit on 24/1/12 by Chadwickus because: (no reason given)


Yeahhhh.....because its definitely not "close minded" to refuse to accept there just might be things that one cannot simply explain by the behavior of human beings.

What's next? Are you going to try and say that all these low rumbling noises we've been hearing all over the world are nothing more than a simple viral marketing ploy for a video game? oh no......



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:56 PM
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Interview with Carl Sagan.
Oh no, he didnt just say that!
Be more open minded muzzelnose would say!

www.pbs.org...



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by theBigToe
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Your posts dont really make any sense....


Special Pleading


Special pleading is a form of spurious argumentation where a position in a dispute introduces favorable details or excludes unfavorable details by alleging a need to apply additional considerations without proper criticism of these considerations themselves. Essentially, this involves someone attempting to cite something as an exemption to a generally accepted rule, principle, etc. without justifying the exemption.



assertion that the opponent lacks the qualifications necessary to comprehend a point of view



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:58 PM
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posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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reply to post by AwakeinNM
 


Ha ! 21 million future humans and none posturing to be heard and seen ???? Not possible. LOL.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by BBalazs
Interview with Carl Sagan.
Oh no, he didnt just say that!
Be more open minded muzzelnose would say!

www.pbs.org...


Another Straw man.

We aren't discussing "Alien Abduction" here.

I am also highly skeptical of such 'stories' as well. That doesn't mean they never happened, it just means most claimants of them don't make a very strong case for them.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Quoting sagan to prove your agruement wrong he believed in "ufos" as you defined it is a stawman?
It is a fact.
You have not read the article, just the title.
That is arrogance and ignorance.
edit on 25-1-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by theBigToe
reply to post by muzzleflash
 


en.wikipedia.org...


Cognitive Dissonance

Appeal to Ridicule


Appeal to ridicule, also called appeal to mockery, the Horse Laugh,[1] or reductio ad ridiculum (Latin: "reduction to the ridiculous"), is a logical fallacy which presents the opponent's argument in a way that appears ridiculous, often to the extent of creating a straw man of the actual argument, rather than addressing the argument itself.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by BBalazs
 


Hussein did it!! Rawrrr!



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by interupt42
 


Right, travel all that way and then leave an ambiguous message in a wheat field that will be debated and never proven to have come from you. Way to go aliens.
If they're out there they are freaking jokesters and fools.
This amounts to a cosmic, ringing the doorbell and running away.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by BBalazs
reply to post by muzzleflash
 

Quoting sagan to prove your agruement wrong he believed in "ufos" as you defined it is a stawman?
It is a fact.
You have not read the article, just the title.
That is arrogance and ignorance.
edit on 25-1-2012 by BBalazs because: (no reason given)


I said "Remain open to alternative possibilities", and the STRAW MAN is that you automatically misrepresent my suggestion by claiming various alternative arguments which do not apply.

UFO means Unidentified Flying Object by the way. And Sagan clearly cited an understanding that some objects which fly can remain unidentified or unexplained properly.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:06 PM
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Crop circles from Carl the Man Sagan:

A very interesting example of this sort of thing is the so-called crop circles in England in which wheat and rye and other grains—these beautiful immense circles appeared and then—this was in the '70s and '80s—and then over progressive years, more and more complex geometries. And there were lots of people who said that these were made by UFOs that were landing and that it was too complex or too highly mathematical to be a hoax.
And it turns out that two blokes in Southern England, at their regular bar one night, thought it would be a good idea to make a kind of hoax to see if they could lure in UFO enthusiasts. And they succeeded every time—every time an explanation was proferred: a peculiar kind of wind, they then made another one which contradicted that hypothesis. And they were very pleased when it was said that no human intelligence could do this. That gave them great satisfaction. And for 15 years, they succeeded in these nocturnal expeditions using rope and board—all the technology they needed.
And in their 60's, they finally confessed to the press with a demonstration of how it was done. And, of course, the confession received very little play in the media. And the claims of alien influence had received prominent exposure.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:07 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 



No, you basically said sagan was silenced by the "evil" people.
Want me to quote you?



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


And since I am doing research and posting facts...why bust on me about Jupiter?....I wish people like him with nothing better to do would leave the rest of us alone.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by BBalazs
Here is a quote from Carl, the man:
"Is there a “signal” hiding in all that noise? In my view, there are no cases — despite well over a million UFO reports since 1947 — in which something is so strange that it could only be an extraterrestrial spacecraft is reported so reliably that misapprehension, hoax or hallucination can be reliably excluded. There’s still a part of me that says “Too bad.”"
I could find harsher ones, this is very delicatley put.


Cite your quotes next time please.

Here is a copy of a very old post I made debunking the claim that Carl Sagan "didn't believe in UFOs".
From Demon-Haunted World the citation includes page numbers:


Originally posted by muzzleflash
Here he clearly admits there are many cases that remain unexplained, and purposely dismissed unfairly by the government debunkers. (In reference to Blue Book)

Demon Haunted World pg 82-83



"But what was in those files wasn't worth much. For example, senior citizens reported lights hovering over their small New Hampshire town for more than an hour, and the case is explained as a wing of strategic bombers from a nearby Air Force base on a training exercise. Could the bombers take an hour to pass over the town? No. Did the bombers fly over the town at the time the UFOs were reported? No. Can you explain to us, Colonel, how strategic bombers can be described as "hovering"? No. The slipshod Bluebook investigations played little scientific role, but did serve the important bureaucratic purpose of convincing much of the public that the Air Force was on the job; and that maybe there was nothing to UFO reports.

Of course, this doesn't preclude the possibility that another, more serious, more scientific study of UFOs was going on somewhere else- headed, say, by a brigadier general rather than a lieutenant colonel. "


He is obviously admitting that there are UFO reports that are not explained by Blue Book and that he didn't consider it a legitimate scientific investigation. AKA BS to mislead the public.

He makes a clear distinction between the word "UFO" and "Alien spacecraft." This is because, if we call it an 'alien spacecraft' it is not a "UFO" anymore, it is clearly identified.

He admits that there are unexplained events. Unidentified.

The entire book is worth reading. It's a very good guide for skepticism. The best in my opinion.

"Carl Sagan knew UFOs were real" of course he did. He didn't say "aliens" are real though, because he had no proof, as the novel makes entirely clear.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by muzzleflash
 


Yeah unexplained means he believed.
Maybe for you.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 04:14 PM
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To me "our message" looks very primitive and I don't see how somebody besides the author would understand that. You would have to travel along with that message to explain to the ETs what we're trying to say with this weird drawings..

Having said that I don't think that this "answer" is an answer at all, let alone that it was done by UFOs








edit on 25-1-2012 by Hellas because: (no reason given)



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