What's under Antarctica?

Originally posted by southern_cross3
I didn't read all of your post; clearly you have much more free time than I do to sit around and argue with people on the Internet.

However, "proven theory" is an oxymoron. If it was proven, it wouldn't be a theory.


EDIT: Plenty of cultures have tales of fleeing from a cataclysm involving flooding and volcanoes. It'd be easier to name some that don't, actually.

[edit on 12/7/2006 by southern_cross3]

You have common use pf "theory" confused with scientific use of "theory".
In common usage, theory is more or less synonymous with "guess" or "hunch."

In scientic usage, "theory" is a logically self-consistent model or framework for describing the behavior of a related set of phenomena. It originates from and/or is supported by experimental evidence. In this sense, a theory is a systematic and formalized expression of all previous observations that is predictive, logical and testable.

Same word, but different meanings in different contexts.

As for the flood stories, ever noticed that the cultures that cook them up always seemed to live on rivers that experienced seasonal flooding?

Googling in youTube i found this one:
I suggest to watch the 3 first minutes then her monologue is boring...
Apparently her google earth analysis is pretty good... I wonder how...
Google earth pro? With 400$ per month?



Link:www.youtube.com...

In Antarctica segment of this video we see something like a volcano
and i found this after some reaserch This eruption of mount Erebus in the same continent:


Link:www.youtube.com...

Apparently, the lava seams to have a green coloure the same with southern lights (aurora lights)

The explodes of this volcano must be huge as the following video shows:


Link:www.youtube.com...

Whats under the ice? Frozen, dead, cold things, lots of bones, rock...water...penguins...santas secret army of evil elves...

Maybe it's hell and it froze over, who knows.

Since the ice is already melting, why not rush it on a bit and we can find out what's really there

interesting debates fellas.. I guess Im a little late

Originally posted by Marduk

the theory of evolution has an overwhelming amount of evidence that proves that its valid

It also ignores a huge amount of evidence that alter the current time-lines of humanity because it simply does not fit. So as a basis to go against the notion of humans on Antarctica, then sorry, I don't buy it

Edit: to fix quote

[edit on 27-2-2009 by george_gaz]

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
(A SciFi author).

It's called "la nuit des temps" (The Night of times). The story take place on the antartica, scientist discover rests of an ancient civilisation and in a cryogenic egg one man and one woman that they bring back to life...

This book is "cult" in france because the drama is about love between the man and the woman and the un-understanding of the scientist who simply think about making experiments on them and try, of course, to separe them...

Je confirme, cher ami !

ATSer's might also have a look to LE GRAND SECRET (THE GREAT SECRET), a darn conspiracesque explanation of JFK assasination...

Well, - back to topic. Et Vive La France.

well there hasnt been any ancient sites or remains of human fossils as of yet but at least they are finding life.
www.cbsnews.com...

If they have found dinosaur remains dating back to the Early Jurassic period at an elevation of 13,000 feet in Antarctica how old do you think that puts the age of the ice?
i am curious

news.nationalgeographic.com...

www.enchantedlearning.com...

[edit on 3-4-2010 by KultureTatau]

reply to post by GRENADIER


Interesting got a link?

We can see what the land is like today. This site is interesting, they are planning on putting an observatory there.
www.brisbanetimes.com.au/technology/the-colde...
Scientist also say that there was a forest there:
www.the-peoples-forum.com...
Here is a picture of a fossil leaf:
www.aad.gov.au...
Maybe I missed the point. Are you thinking that there was an advanced civilization there?

Not only an advanced civilization, high tech factories, spaceships and launch pads, the entrance to the hollow earth, Atlantis' headquarters, the Annunaki embassy - among other things!

Just remember, the earth is not the only hollow thing around

The ice sheet is 9000 feet thick

Well, they get up to 50 feet of snow a year in the North Cascades, so that would only take 200 years to accumlate 9000 feet.

Of course, normally you can find layers in the ice like rings of a tree that tell you the age. Have they found millions of layers in the antarctic ice?

Originally posted by All Seeing Eye
If the NSA got involved that means national security. Whats under there?

Read, www.veritastruth.com...

Read
www.veritastruth.com...

I read somewhere that theres a big space ship buried in the ice. And one of the lesser groups of dark lizard lords are trying to re-activate the ship and leave the planet. Due to the changing of the vibrational frenquency which is slowly killing them. Of course they would use various co-opted high ranking NSA personel to do the dirty work, and get them access to the ship. yeah I know that sounds way out there, but explain to me why the middle of the southern pole is warmer than it should be. Not everywhere, just over where the ship is supposed to be located. I'd say they got it working and are trying to burn there way through what 9000 feet of ice..or more. Would take alot of energy to do that, and would heat up the area. I got that off a satilite that flies over the south polar regions.

Course it could be old Nick..in his workshop..heh

reply to post by j619pinoy


There's actually two maps of Antarctica before it became glaciated c. 4000 B.C.E. Both maps are copies of other previous ancient boat groups who may have colonized or chartered Antarctica.

The first map of Antarctica's deglaciated coastline (with rivers) is the Piri Reis map of 1513. Piri Reis was a Turkish general who copied a map from the Emperor Constantine's Imperial Library. Now by all means the map could have been stolen from any group in the Aegean Sea that had boats from the Younger Dryas (c. 8500 B.C.E.) to Ancient Greece that may have made it out of the Mediterranean and chartered the Atlantic Ocean. And during the Roman Empire, any such hidden maps would have been seized and placed in Constantinople, thus winding up in the Emperor Constantine's Imperial Library.

The second map of Antarctica's deglaciated coastline (with rivers) is the Oronteus Finnaeus map of 1531. Or rather Dr. Finnaeus. He made a copy of a map of Antarctica from some hidden medicine library in Italy, thus a map most likely hidden in Serpent Goddess of Medicine temples in Italy. Men were forbidden in certain areas of those temples, so they hid maps from the Romans in those temples. Then many of the hidden maps, books, and texts wound up in hidden medical libraries to hide from the Inquisition during the Holy Roman Empire. Dr. Finnaeus made a copy of such a hidden map.

I actually attempted to make maps of Antarctica or rather what's under the ice before glaciation (c. 4000 B.C.E.) using both the Piri Reis map of rivers and the Oronteus Finnaeus map of rivers. Plus I tried to come up with sea depth charts to show the former coastlines during the Glacial Maximum in the northern hemisphere. Since most of the water is in the North hemisphere, when it freezes the sea levels drop. So Antarctica also would have had an extended coastline at the LGM when it was not covered by glaciers.

My attempts to re-construct Antarctica's coastline, rivers and mountains before 4000 BCE are up on ImageShack. I added extra rivers in addition to Piri Reis & Finnaeus maps projected off where rivers must have cut the former coastline (down to -110 meters below present sea level).

Antarctica Deglaciated at the Last Glacial Maximum of the Northern Hemisphere

The first group to which Piri Reis most likely copied his maps from where Thassos Red Heads that colonized Spain, France, England & Ireland c. 7000 B.C.E. who colonized by boats, thus may have chartered the rest of the Atlantic.

Antarctica Deglaciated c. 7000 B.C.E. - extended coastlines with Piri Reis section of Antarctica highlighted: Thassos Redheads

The second group to which Dr. Oronteus Finnaeus most likely copied his maps was from Serpent Goddess of Medicine groups such as the Galli-Gauls-Gaelics who colonized Spain, France, & British Isles c. 5000 B.C.E. They seemed to be connected to Serpent Goddess groups in Italy.

Antarctica Deglaciated c. 5750 B.C.E. - extended coastlines: Galli's Serpent Goddess of Medicine Chartering

Then if Antarctica was ever colonized by anyone, I made a map c. 4000 B.C.E. when glaciation began and put arrows on it for the most likely areas of human colonization if anyone was trapped there by the ice. (Gold Arrows on Map)

Antarctica Glaciation Begins c. 3250 B.C.E.- Most likely areas of human colonization if trapped by ice

That's the best I could come up with on theoretical data of where humans might have tried to live before the ice sheets in Antarctica.

reply to post by CB328


Doesn't quite work like that since much of the snow melts (or more likely in Antarctica) sublimates. And as fresh snow falls, it's gets squeezed so that 50ft of snow might produce, say, a few mm of ice.

Anyway, as you say, ice forms layers and we can date these (and corroborate the dating by comparing, for example, ash from known volcanic eruptions). So far, the longest ice core takes us back 740,000 years.

news.bbc.co.uk...

2012forum.com...

The interior of the Earth, some believe, is home to strange races of technologically advanced beings. Who are they and where are the hidden entrances to their subterranean cities? Many readers of the paranormal and the unexplained are familiar with the theory that the Earth is hollow. The idea is based on the ancient legends of many cultures that say there are races of people - entire civilizations - that thrive in subterranean cities. Very often, these dwellers of the world beneath are more technologically advanced than we on the surface. Some even believe that UFOs are not from other planets, but are manufactured by strange beings in the interior of the Earth. Who are these strange races of beings? How did they come to live inside the Earth? And where are the entrances to their underground cities? Agharta The Network. One of the most common names cited for the society of underground dwellers is Agharta (or Agartha) with its capital city of Shamballa. The source for this information, apparently, is The Smoky God, the "biography" of a Norwegian sailor named Olaf Jansen. According to Agartha - Secrets of the Subterranean Cities, the story, written by Willis Emerson, explains how Jansen's sloop sailed through an entrance to the Earth's interior at the North Pole. For two years he lived with the inhabitants of the Agharta network of colonies who, Emerson writes, were a full 12 feet tall and whose world was lit by a "smoky" central sun. Shamballa the Lesser, one of the colonies, was also the seat of government for the network. "While Shamballa the Lesser is an inner continent, its satellite colonies are smaller enclosed ecosystems located just beneath the Earth' s crust or discreetly within mountains." How and Why They Went There. The many cataclysms and wars taking place on the surface drove these people underground, according to Secrets: "Consider the lengthy Atlantean-Lemurian war and the power of thermonuclear weaponry that eventually sank and destroyed these two highly advanced civilizations. The Sahara, the Gobi, the Australian Outback and the deserts of the U.S. are but a few examples of the devastation that resulted. The sub-cities were created as refuges for the people and as safe havens for sacred records, teachings and technologies that were cherished by these ancient cultures." The Entrances. There are allegedly several entrances to the Kingdom of Agharta throughout the world: Kentucky Mommoth Cave, in south-central Kentucky, US. Mount Shasta, California, US - the Agharthean city of Telos allegedly exists within and beneath this mountain. Manaus, Brazil. Mato Grosso, Brazil - the city of Posid supposedly lies beneath this plain. Iguaçú Falls, border or Brazil and Argentina. Mount Epomeo, Italy. Himalayan Mountains, Tibet - the entrance to the underground city of Shonshe is allegedly guarded by Hindu monks. Mongolia - the underground city of Shingwa allegedly exists beneath the border of Mongolia and China. Rama, India - beneath this surface city is a long lost subterranean city, they say, also named Rama. Pyramid of Giza, Egypt. King Solomon's Mines. Dero Caves, ?. North and South Poles. Nagas The People. In India there is an ancient belief, still held by some, in a subterranean race of serpent people who dwell in the cities Patala and Bhogavati. According to the legend, they wage war on the kingdom of Agharta. "The Nagas," according to "The Deep Dwellers," "are described as a very advanced race or species, with a highly-developed technology. They also harbor a disdain for human beings, whom they are said to abduct, torture, interbreed with and even to eat." The Entrances. While the entrance to Bhogavati is somewhere in the Himalayas, believers assert that Patala can be entered through the Well of Sheshna in Benares, India. Says William Michael Mott in "The Deep Dwellers": "According to herpetologist and author Sherman A. Minton, as stated in his book Venomous Reptiles, this entrance is very real, with forty steps which descend into a circular depression, to terminate at a closed stone door which is covered in bas-relief cobras. In Tibet, there is a major mystical shrine also called 'Patala,' which is said by the people there to sit atop an ancient cavern and tunnel system, which reaches throughout the Asian continent and possibly beyond. The Nagas also have an affinity with water, and the entrances to their underground palaces are often said to be hidden at the bottom of wells, deep lakes and rivers." The Old Ones The Beings. In an article entitled "The Hollow Earth: Myth or Reality" for Atlantis Rising, Brad Steiger writes of the legends of "the Old Ones," an ancient race that populated the surface world millions of years ago and then moved underground. "The Old Ones, an immensely intelligent and scientifically advanced race," Steiger writes, "have chosen to structure their own environment under the surface of the planet and manufacture all their necessities. The Old Ones are hominid, extremely long-lived, and pre-date Homo sapiens by more than a million years. The Old Ones generally remain aloof from the surface peoples, but from time to time, they have been known to offer constructive criticism; and it has been said, they often kidnap human children to tutor and rear as their own." The Elder Race The Beings. One of the most controversial tales of inner Earth dwellers is the so-called "Shaver Mystery." In 1945, Amazing Stories magazine under the editorship of Ray Palmer ran a story told by Richard Shaver, who claimed he had recently been the guest of what remained of an underground civilization. Although few really believed the story, any many suspect that Shaver may actually have been psychotic, Shaver always averred that his story was true. He contended that the Elder Race, or Titans, came to this planet from another solar system in our prehistoric past. After a while of living on the surface, they realized our sun was causing them to age prematurely, so they escaped underground, building huge subterranean complexes in which to live. Eventually, they decided to seek a new home on a new planet, evacuating the Earth and leaving behind their underground cities populated by mutated beings: the evil Dero - detrimental robots - and the good Tero - integrated robots. It was these beings that Shaver claimed to have met. The Entrance. Despite the enormous popularity of the Shaver Mystery in Amazing Stories - Palmer milked it for all it was worth, and then some - the location of the entrance to this underground world was never divulged.

reply to post by MapMistress


Howdy MapMistress

The problem is of course is that the Piri Reis map doesn't show the Antarctic - so why would you associate it with that area?

Show us if you please a map of the physical world with the Piri Reis information superimposed on it.

Why don't they match up? Since they don't why do you claim otherwise?

On the OF map

To quote another

To show that Orontius’s Terra Australis corresponds to the outline of Antarctica, it was necessary for Hapgood to rotate the depiction by about twenty degrees, move the South Pole by 7½° (1,600 km) and alter the scale, as Terra Australis is 230% the size of Antarctica.

Link to quote


Plus of course Essan comment

Originally posted by Hanslune
The problem is of course is that the Piri Reis map doesn't show the Antarctic - so why would you associate it with that area?

Show us if you please a map of the physical world with the Piri Reis information superimposed on it.

Why don't they match up? Since they don't why do you claim otherwise?

I did show you a map of where the Piri Reis map was superimposed over the top of the Antarctic coastline and what section of the Antarctic coastline that the Piri Reis map corresponds to. I'll link again.

Antarctica Deglaciated c. 7000 B.C.E.

I think you are taking similar information from the below site.
Piri Reis Map

The man admits that the Piri Reis map is a perfect fit for South America and Africa. That it bears no resemblance to a map from the middle east. But he tries to discredit Antarctica because Antarctica is out of position from the South America coast. He claims that it doesn't resemble Antarctica's coast, when it does. If you take Wikipedia's Antarctica map of the coastline underneath the ice sheet and you place over the top of it the Piri Reis map--it fits perfectly. If you have the graphic software to layer images over the top of one another...try it! Take the Piri Reis Antarctica section (download). Then download the Wikipedia Antarctica map. Open up the two and layer over the top of one another in Photoshop. The Piri Reis Antarctica section is offset from the South America coastline because he copied someone else's map. So one would need to see the original if it even exists anymore.

Hapgood suggests that the Antarctic section of the map was copied at an incorrect scale to the rest of the map and resulted in the distortion and enlargement of the continent on several ancient maps.
Wikipedia: Piri Reis Map

AND military & scientists tested the Piri Reis section of Antarctica map to see if there were really rivers there below the ice sheet. The rivers were there.

11-4-2009
Scientists have known for years that there are volcanoes, mountains, rivers and lakes beneath the ice. But they haven't known many details about these things.

The NASA flights offer a way to learn a great deal more, says William Krabill, a member of the NASA team flying on the DC-8. For example, the plane carries a special radar that lets scientists study the topography of the land beneath the ice sheet, he says. Another instrument detects tiny changes in gravity fields and can reveal liquid water beneath the ice.
Radar Reveals Dynamic World Under Antarctica's Ice

Also older studies by the Carnegie Institute, Washington D.C.

In 1949 coring was done to take samples of the ice and sediment at the bottom of the Ross Sea. They clearly showed several layers of stratification, meaning the area went through several environmental changes. Some of the sediments were of the type usually brought down to the sea by rivers. Tests done at the Carnegie Institute in Washington DC, which date radioactive elements found in sea water, dated the sediments at about 4000 BC, which would mean the area was ice free with flowing rivers up until that time - exactly what is recorded on the Reis and Finaeus maps.
Anomalous Antarctica Maps

Secondly, you are expecting ancient mariners who created ancient maps to be satellite perfect. They weren't. And when you are talking about some men in the 1500's (Reis or Finneaus) copying ancient maps to try and pass off as their own after Columbus, then there's always going to be additional errors since these men copied older maps that they did not put forth to the public.

As for Dr. Finnaeus map, also a copy of some other Ancient Mariner group--yes it is offset. But he was copying some other ancient civilization's map that was hidden from the Romans, hidden from the Holy Roman Empire, then hidden from the Inquisition. If Dr. Finnaeus had told or shown the map he copied, he probably would have been burned at the stake in 1531. His copy of a map is also offset and the section that looks like Palmer Land looks like he may have put two maps together: a map of the tip of South America mixed with Palmer's Land of Antarctica. But the rest of the Finnaeus map of Antarctica definitely fits even if that section is wrong.

Ancient mariners were not "satellite perfect" cartographers. If something doesn't look satellite perfect that doesn't mean that they didn't make a map of a region. Of course there's mistakes in Ancient maps. Mistakes in calculations. Whenever someone else copies an ancient map to try and pass off as their own, there's additional errors.

Howdy MapMistress

I did show you a map of where the Piri Reis map was superimposed over the top of the Antarctic coastline and what section of the Antarctic coastline that the Piri Reis map corresponds to. I'll link again.

Antarctica Deglaciated c. 7000 B.C.E.

This doesn’t show it perhaps you meant to link to a map that did?

The man admits that the Piri Reis map is a perfect fit for South America and Africa. That it bears no resemblance to a map from the middle east. But he tries to discredit Antarctica because Antarctica is out of position from the South America coast. He claims that it doesn't resemble Antarctica's coast, when it does. If you take Wikipedia's Antarctica map of the coastline underneath the ice sheet and you place over the top of it the Piri Reis map--it fits perfectly.

Of course it’s a good fit for South America and Africa the Portuguese had been there and it was on their maps which Piri Reis had access too. How does it resemble the Antarctic coast – again show a superimposed trace of the PR over the real world – which that website does and they do not match




Pink shows the PR map and the black the real world - not quite a match, eh?

To show it a bit clearer




Hmmmm well if that is a good match then the Confederation of Helvetia started WWII

If you have the graphic software to layer images over the top of one another...try it!

I have they don’t match up – where are Patagonia, Magellan straits and the Falklands? its odd that as a proponent of this idea you have no such comparison....but see the one I provided above

Take the Piri Reis Antarctica section (download). Then download the Wikipedia Antarctica map. Open up the two and layer over the top of one another in Photoshop. The Piri Reis Antarctica section is offset from the South America coastline because he copied someone else's map. So one would need to see the original if it even exists anymore.

Yes it says so in margin it even mentions whose map it was – what did it say it came from?

Hapgood suggests that the Antarctic section of the map was copied at an incorrect scale to the rest of the map

Yes that what he suggested but that doesn’t mean you should believe him and one must ask why is the information for the caribbean so wrong?

AND military & scientists tested the Piri Reis section of Antarctica map to see if there were really rivers there below the ice sheet. The rivers were there.

Actually no they didn’t, your applying information done independently and not in support of the PR you should read Gregory C. McIntosh’s ‘The Piri Reis Map of 1513'

In 1949 coring was done to take samples of the ice and sediment at the bottom of the Ross Sea. They clearly showed several layers of stratification, meaning the area went through several environmental changes. Some of the sediments were of the type usually brought down to the sea by rivers. Tests done at the Carnegie Institute in Washington DC, which date radioactive elements found in sea water, dated the sediments at about 4000 BC, which would mean the area was ice free with flowing rivers up until that time - exactly what is recorded on the Reis and Finaeus maps.

Care to link to the original study? Ice cores show the Antarctic to be under a layer of snow of hundreds of thousands of years.

Secondly, you are expecting ancient mariners who created ancient maps to be satellite perfect.

No I was expecting you to be knowledgeable about the PR map

As for Dr. Finnaeus map, also a copy of some other Ancient Mariner group--yes it is offset. But he was copying some other ancient civilization's map that was hidden from the Romans, hidden from the Holy Roman Empire, then hidden from the Inquisition. If Dr. Finnaeus had told or shown the map he copied, he probably would have been burned at the stake in 1531.

......and you know this how? He was doing what map makers of that time did, make up stuff when they had no information

His copy of a map is also offset and the section that looks like Palmer Land looks like he may have put two maps together: a map of the tip of South America mixed with Palmer's Land of Antarctica. But the rest of the Finnaeus map of Antarctica definitely fits even if that section is wrong.

Hans: He was guessing – here is a question for you of all the maps that were map within 40 years of the OF map how many of them showed Antarctic? How accurate were they? Why concentrate on one only?

Originally posted by Hanslune
This doesn’t show it perhaps you meant to link to a map that did?

Of course it’s a good fit for South America and Africa the Portuguese had been there and it was on their maps which Piri Reis had access too. How does it resemble the Antarctic coast – again show a superimposed trace of the PR over the real world – which that website does and they do not match



Pink shows the PR map and the black the real world - not quite a match, eh?

To show it a bit clearer

Actually it was I who provided a map to Antarctica and you provided an incorrect scale of a pen sketch to South America with a tiny sliver of an inaccurate coastline of Antarctica. The topic is Antarctica. If you wish to dispute a map of Antarctica, then provide a map to Antarctica for dispute rather than a pen sketch of South America. And please link to a map of Antarctica's coastline BELOW the ice.

Wikipedia: Subglacial Topography and Bathymetry of Antarctica by Heinrich

Map of Antarctic Sub-Ice Topography, showing regions below present sea level in blue

Above map from Online Lab of Geology 2161, U of Minnesota

The link to the pen sketch of an inaccurate sliver of Antarctica that was provided does not reflect the actual coastline of Antarctica beneath the ice. So I provided 3 links to sources showing the REAL coastline. And here's the comparisons to Piri Reis and Finneus maps of Antarctica.

***Comparison of Piri Reis map to the REAL coastline of Antarctica beneath the ice: ImageShack

The Piri Reis map is pretty accurate showing precisely where the islands off the coast were in the past.

***Comparison of Oronteus Finneus map to the REAL coastline of Antarctica beneath the ice: Image Shack

Ice cores show the Antarctic to be under a layer of snow of hundreds of thousands of years.

Actually there's no such thing as one long ice age. The ice age happens in cycles. When the northern hemisphere is frozen, the southern hemisphere is melted due to the axis of the Earth. Because the north pole (Arctic Ocean) is all water, when the Northern hemisphere freezes the sea levels drop. But when the southern hemisphere is melted--there's land. When the southern hemisphere is frozen (like now) ice sheets cover Antarctica's land mass and the northern hemisphere melts.

The cycle lasts roughly 120,000-125,000 years and starts all over again. There's never been one constant long ice age, just cycles of freezes and melts. And POLLEN data shows that Antarctica melts each cycle.