Pictures from lunch - Contrail/Chemtrail/Clouds

reply to post by luxordelphi

I, myself, am never motivated to even enter threads that I see are complete nonsense.

And yet you still come to these chemtrail threads.


















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Originally posted by tsurfer2000h
reply to post by luxordelphi

 

So I see, because we ask for proof we are now considered bots. Well I guess that is better than being called a paid gov't shill. That's ok I guess.

How about you just show all this proof that these chemtrails and planes that spray them exist and you may be taken more serious. I won't hold my breath for the proof.

Look up, friend, and weep. Then come and tell me that these are our father's skies. There's your proof. Right where it's always been. Lunchtime, dinnertime, breakfast and night time: it never ends. But this is getting too weepy.

Where's the latitude of the tanker enemy video? Let's talk turkey. Let's talk about wing-tip contrails.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Look up - see contrails and clouds and sky - no need to weep at all.

Thanks for the advice - I feel better now.

Where's the latitude of the tanker enemy video?

What does that even mean??

Let's talk turkey. Let's talk about wing-tip contrails.

What do you mean by "wing tip contrails", and what would you like o talk about them?

reply to post by luxordelphi

Look up, friend, and weep.

Better yet I looked up and took a couple pics and I will share them with you...





This is what I see when I look up and just a little something else I do live just east of the busiest airport in the world.Hartsfield/Jackson in Atlanta so I see all types high overfly with contrails and some persistent when conditions are applicable. I also see them coming and going at all hours so when I look up and see what is in these pics I know that these are not chemtrails but in fact contrails. It is also an indication of the weather change that will be coming in. So again please provide some type of evidence besides the same old "Just Look Up" as evidence.

And yes the sky is just as blue now as it was when I was younger in the seventies. There is just more industry and transportation going on in the world than there was then, and that is a fact.

reply to post by tsurfer2000h


Thought I would contribute as well....



Notice that although you have the same aircraft types flying at a similar altitude, the contrails produced are far from uniform in length or density.






Speaking of unique aerodynamic phenomena causing interesting visual effects, here is one of my favorites.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


That last one is a great illustration of aerodynamic contrails from propellors - here's a couple of videos showing them -



From a slightly more modern aircraft -



And going back further - this page from Flight Magazine in 1940 has a photo of barely visible prop vortices made by a Hampden bomber they say was taken in 1937

reply to post by luxordelphi

Let's talk about wing-tip contrails.

There are situations, when conditions are ripe, when the compression/expansion of air due to aerodynamic forces of an object, like a wing, moving through the air will cause what (I think) you are referring to as "wing-tip contrails".

In these cases, they ARE very short-lived, since they occur mostly in ambient temperatures well above freezing....and once the compression of the air locally that causes the contained water vapor to condense into visible moisture is removed....THAT IS....once the compression of the air is removed, and it goes "back to normal", the visible condensation trail evaporates back to its vapor state. This happens within a few seconds.

The situations of airframe aerodynamics that can cause these localized compression/expansion areas are not isolated just at the wingtips:

Here, it forms because of certain things called "strakes" on the side of the engine nacelle (cowling) on this Boeing 767:



Here is a B-777, and it is fully over the top of the wing.....pure condensation there, nothing "unusual" at all....:



Another example....on a B-737-800 that I have personally flown, no doubt:



And finally.....LOOK at this, from the outside in this example. The "trails" aren't from the wingtips....they are coming from the tips of the trailing edge flaps, if you will note carefully. Again, very humid day, and the airflow "forces" the water vapor to come "out" of vapor state, briefly, before evaporating again:

Originally posted by luxordelphi
Let's talk about wing-tip contrails.

Wing tip vortices discussed during the 1940s. See letter and articles. It will be interesting to see what theory you come up with for the observations of persistent and non-persistent contrails and win-tip vortices during WW2?

www.flightglobal.com...

www.flightglobal.com...

www.flightglobal.com...

www.flightglobal.com...

www.flightglobal.com...

www.flightglobal.com...

Geoffrey de Havilland, Jr, test pilot, wrote in Flight Magazine in June 1942

VAPOUR TRAILS Views of Well-known Test Pilot I WISH to correct the various erroneous statements that have appeared in the correspondence columns of Flight concerning the origin of aircraft vapour trails. The trails referred to are, without doubt, due to the condensation of the water vapour content of the engine exhaust gases; this condensation will always occur under favourable conditions of humidity and temperature at high altitudes. I have myself frequently observed these trails from the cockpit of a high-flying aircraft in the very act of formation at the exit of the exhaust pipes. The formation of a short trail, or, as Mr. Dixon has expressed if, a trail "like the wake of a boat," is merely the prelude to the formation of the familiar "permanent" condensation trail which will occur when the aircraft in question runs into more favourable atmospheric conditions. Another type of trail which may be induced by the passage of an aircraft through air of high relative humidity may well be termed an " adiabatic trail," since it has its derivation in the adiabatic cooling of the air concerned to below its dew point.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Full timeline at following links.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

elib.dlr.de...

Aerodynamic contrails form when air flows across the wings of subsonic aircraft in cruise. During a short adiabatic expansion phase, high supersaturations trigger burstlike homogeneous ice formation on ambient liquid aerosol particles within a wing depth. Small particles freeze first because they equilibrate most rapidly. Ambient temperature is the key determinant of nascent aerodynamic contrail properties. Only above;232 K do they become visible (but optically thin). These temperatures are at the high end of those prevailing at tropical upper tropospheric flight levels of subsonic aircraft. In colder midlatitude conditions, aerodynamic contrails stay invisible and the very small ice particles formed quickly evaporate when exposed to small subsaturations, explaining why the formation of these contrails is rarely observed. After formation, aerodynamic contrails develop into contrail cirrus if air is supersaturated with respect to ice. This type of anthropogenic ice cloud adds to contrail cirrus derived from jet exhaust contrails and may become particularly important in the future because air traffic is projected to increase significantly in tropical and subtropical regions. Regardless of whether aerodynamically induced ice formation leads to persistent contrail cirrus, cruising aircraft may act as sources of potent heterogeneous ice nuclei by preactivating the insoluble fraction in atmospheric particle populations. Aerodynamic contrails and aerodynamically induced preactivation should therefore be studied experimentally and with global models to explore their potential to induce climate change.

www.pilotoutlook.com...

In air that is almost saturated, aerodynamic pressure reduction around airfoils, engine nacelles, and propellers cools the air to saturation leaving condensation trails from these components. This type of trail usually is neither as dense nor as persistent as exhaust trails. However, under critical atmospheric conditions, an aerodynamic contrail may trigger the formation and spreading of a deck of cirrus clouds.

In 'Deep Shield' the year 1982 came up. I did some preliminary searches to see what happened in 1980-1981-1982 etc. that could have prompted 'Deep Shield' to come forward. And for what purpose. The scenarios that 'Deep Shield' describes are all a sort of last ditch effort to save the planet. It's not nefarious, just ignorant. Also 3-4 or so times during his interview he gives different time frames for the end i.e. 20 years, 50 years etc. There are some interesting things that happened in 1982. There were a lot of plane crashes. There were some wierd suicides. There was an 8 planet alignment. There were record cold temperatures in the U.K. and the U.S. There were some wierd deaths. The only persistent news item that spanned all of those years was a search for Planet X - which would have been the then 10th planet. I'm still looking for a trigger and just want to say I deeply appreciate the information.

reply to post by luxordelphi


Alright you have to help me here, because I just cannot seem to find anything in your link that mentions anything about chemtrails.

Did you even read that link, because I am gonna guess you didn't.(which doesn't surprise me at all). I will thank you for the weather lesson I enjoyed it.

www.pilotoutlook.com...

Now how about some evidence of chemtrails, please? I am asking politely.......

Originally posted by Uncinus

Originally posted by mileslong54

Originally posted by Aloysius the Gaul
looks mostly like normal cirrus - and isn't this in the wrong forum?

Where would you suggest it go?

Normal cirrus clouds

coming out of the back of a plane, in multiple directions (the wind must be blowing every way at the same time) wow, this is what cirrus clouds look like

That's a particular type of cirrus, the cirrus uncinus. There are several kinds of cirrus. The OP is probably seeing cirrus aviaticus (aviation cirrus, i.e. old contrails).

There's a cool 1905 book that has lots of photos of clouds from before planes were even invented, they show a bunch of different types of cirrus.

picasaweb.google.com...

One of my favorite "chemtrail" debunkers, Unicus. Where's your sidekick, ProudBird. I haven't finished reading the rest of the comments...just want to point you out 1st. You and ProudBird are the 1st 2 on the scene, when it comes to these con/chemtrail topics. Interesting, as to why you two, are so busy trying to convince people, 'chemtrails' don't exist. When are you two gonna give it up; AFTER the government announces they've been spraying the skies....for reasons that are 'classified', at the moment?

Hey OP...if you think your pics are cool...check out the pics i took, a while back
"Aviation Cirrus Clouds"...hahahaha

And, Unicus...why do you always use the 1905 date, as your reference point, as to when these clouds were 1st 'photographed'? And, why do you and ProudBird....defend....what they're doing in the skies? In other words, why are you on 'their' team? Do "they" pay you a handsome salary? Did "they" promise to take care of you and yours? What gives? Why all the B.S.

reply to post by nuttin4U


And how come you cannot disprove any of the facts they submit to the discussion, so you go on the attack against the poster themselves?

Maybe they are always replying with the same answers because the same misinformation about chemtrails keeps getting posted and so the arguments that refute them are still the same? You don't seem to have a problem with the same Chemtrailers posting the same stuff over and over, double standards?

I've never yet seen one of their explanations deconstructed and shown to be false in the same way that they manage to do with the mixture of misconceptions and lies that make up the arguments put forward by Chemtrailers. Maybe you could try that for a change, if there are holes to be found?

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by nuttin4U

 

And how come you cannot disprove any of the facts they submit to the discussion, so you go on the attack against the poster themselves?

Maybe they are always replying with the same answers because the same misinformation about chemtrails keeps getting posted and so the arguments that refute them are still the same? You don't seem to have a problem with the same Chemtrailers posting the same stuff over and over, double standards?

I've never yet seen one of their explanations deconstructed and shown to be false in the same way that they manage to do with the mixture of misconceptions and lies that make up the arguments put forward by Chemtrailers. Maybe you could try that for a change, if there are holes to be found?

And how can you PROVE that what their saying is 'true'. I've been through this song and dance before...and no matter what i say....based on personal observation...the both of them have a quick response and rebuttle to. They have yet to PROVE what we are saying is false. They keep feeding the same propaganda. Perhaps you should try the 'search' feature...and then, try Nuttin4U chemtrails.

Fact is: Contrails DO NOT make clouds...which the pictures i have posted, CLEARLY shows these planes doing. The pics i posted...are from the same day. Please EXPLAIN the phenomenom in which i was seeing, that day. "Aviation Cirrus i.e. old contrails" like Unicus stated? What kind of NON-SENSE is that? Old contrails? REALLY??? Come on now....that is RIDICULOUS!!!

reply to post by nuttin4U


Contrails have been observed and recorded to "make clouds" for more than 70 years. Why do you think it is nonsense?

This is the thing. It's not that they write stuff and I just believe it. They have written things I already know to be true, and on occasions where they have written replies that are news to me, I have been able to verify the information for myself from reputable other sources (Rotherham Library is an excellent facility!).

This has so far not happened with Chemtrailers as, despite me being very interested, whenever I research something they propose, it's falls on its arse, I can only speak as I find.

Otherwise people write things I already know to be incorrect, such as the statement I asked about at the beginning of this reply.

When I have read accounts of contrails turning a blue sky cloudy that were written in the 1940's and 50's that are in books I have owned since the 1970's, why would I believe them to be nonsense, or faked to cover up chemtrails as some have said?

It makes no sense.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by nuttin4U

 

Contrails have been observed and recorded to "make clouds" for more than 70 years. Why do you think it is nonsense?

This is the thing. It's not that they write stuff and I just believe it. They have written things I already know to be true, and on occasions where they have written replies that are news to me, I have been able to verify the information for myself from reputable other sources (Rotherham Library is an excellent facility!).

This has so far not happened with Chemtrailers as, despite me being very interested, whenever I research something they propose, it's falls on its arse, I can only speak as I find.

Otherwise people write things I already know to be incorrect, such as the statement I asked about at the beginning of this reply.

When I have read accounts of contrails turning a blue sky cloudy that were written in the 1940's and 50's that are in books I have owned since the 1970's, why would I believe them to be nonsense, or faked to cover up chemtrails as some have said?

It makes no sense.

I've seen so much activity over the past 2 years....i wouldn't care what books say, i trust what my eyes tell me. Now, either their manipulating the weather...or it's all just a coincidence. If you take a moment, and look at the pictures i've posted....you wouldn't need to go to the library. Proof, is right there.

I REFUSE to believe that a contrail can extend for MILES long. Again, that is just PURE NONSENSE! And yet, that's what these planes are doing. They're leaving streaks MILES long. So, you're telling me, that a little bit of jet-fuel exhaust, in the form of condensation, is causing this to happen? hahhahahah

I'm glad that you have owned books that have recorded these trails, but again, i ask....how do you KNOW it's TRUE? Because it's in library? Books on U.F.O.'s are in the library...with nice fancy pictures, dated from the 40's and 50's, i'm sure....should i believe aliens exist; eventhough i've never SEEN one, personally??? Should i be that NAIVE???

Or maybe, the real name of a chemtrail, is called a contrail???

I would also like to add, there are books in the library, that claim fire weakens steel; causing 110 story buildings to 'collapse', at freefall speed; defying physics. Should i believe those books, also? Libraries aren't a place of complete TRUTH, they have a science fiction section, as well.

reply to post by nuttin4U


Sigh....it's called "science". It's wonderful to learn it:

They're leaving streaks MILES long. So, you're telling me, that a little bit of jet-fuel exhaust, in the form of condensation, is causing this to happen?

Every pound of jet fuel that is burned (combusted) in the engine makes at least a pound of water vapor, that spews out with the other exhaust gases.

This can combine with the other water vapor already present in the atmosphere, when conditions are suitable for persistent contrails.

A contrail is just a type of cloud. PERIOD. Full stop.

Originally posted by nuttin4U

I've seen so much activity over the past 2 years....i wouldn't care what books say, i trust what my eyes tell me.

So, you have never looked at something and wondered what it was, to then go and learn more from a book on the subject? I find it hard to believe that any intelligent adult would ever admit to such a thing. How did you learn the chemical composition of the atmosphere? By just looking in front of you? Now that would be pure nonsense.

Now, either their manipulating the weather...or it's all just a coincidence. If you take a moment, and look at the pictures i've posted....you wouldn't need to go to the library. Proof, is right there.

Pictures, by themselves, are proof of nothing. Have you seen some of mine? There are several threads on here where I have photographed what most believers would consider to be chemtrail skies, and I have identified the very aircraft that are leaving the trails I am looking at. Looking at MY pictures, what would you conclude?

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I REFUSE to believe that a contrail can extend for MILES long. Again, that is just PURE NONSENSE! And yet, that's what these planes are doing. They're leaving streaks MILES long. So, you're telling me, that a little bit of jet-fuel exhaust, in the form of condensation, is causing this to happen? hahhahahah

You are choosing to close your mind to basic and elementary knowledge. This is not a wise choice, but its yours to make.

It maybe helps to be able to recognise when you are reading fact or fiction, or do you believe that the reference and study areas of libraries contain fictional stories about how the atmosphere works? I'd be interested in hearing you rationalise that thought.

As for why I would think that reference books or encyclopaedias I have owned for forty years (one set I have has been in our family since my sister was born and she is 12 years older than me) are telling the truth. Why WOULDN'T they?

reply to post by nuttin4U


It is great that you have labelled them 'contrails' and 'chemtrails'. The ignorance of aviation is simply staggering!

Flickr Link

Contrails have not changed since I started observing aircraft as an enthusiast in the 1970s. This myth of long trails and persistent trails only suddenly appearing in the late 1990s is a complete hoax. All it is is that you guys need the bogeyman.

How come these observers were studying persistent contrails in the 1970s?

journals.ametsoc.org...

How come these RAF pilots were producing very persistent contrails in 1953?

The other was to get the first-ever photographs from above of a formation making contrails at 40,000ft. Fortunately, very persistent trails were forming at the prescribed height—so much so that in flying a local circuit—via the Firth of Forth and Chelmsford ! —our own trails were still apparent on the return journey.

From

www.flightglobal.com...

Follow the timeline at the following links. See the video of the chap in the YT video that also can't "buy it!"

So when is the 'chemtrail' bubble going to burst? When is it all going to collapse in on the people doing the 'spraying". Five years, ten years, twenty years!

You guys will still be scratching your heads within your lifetime wondering why this great 'conspiracy' hasn't been busted! It it just pure ignorance of aviation and the desperate need for the bogeyman!

So please inform us all when it is all going to come crashing down on all the 'disinfo agents'. Are you taking names ready for the big day? I see that you have some names on your list already!

From 1942. Will you be informing us that the internet has been 'owned'. You do realise that people have copies of Flight Magazine from 1942. Will you be claiming that they have all been faked in recent years?

Geoffrey de Havilland, Jr, test pilot, wrote in Flight Magazine in June 1942

VAPOUR TRAILS Views of Well-known Test Pilot I WISH to correct the various erroneous statements that have appeared in the correspondence columns of Flight concerning the origin of aircraft vapour trails. The trails referred to are, without doubt, due to the condensation of the water vapour content of the engine exhaust gases; this condensation will always occur under favourable conditions of humidity and temperature at high altitudes. I have myself frequently observed these trails from the cockpit of a high-flying aircraft in the very act of formation at the exit of the exhaust pipes. The formation of a short trail, or, as Mr. Dixon has expressed if, a trail "like the wake of a boat," is merely the prelude to the formation of the familiar "permanent" condensation trail which will occur when the aircraft in question runs into more favourable atmospheric conditions. Another type of trail which may be induced by the passage of an aircraft through air of high relative humidity may well be termed an " adiabatic trail," since it has its derivation in the adiabatic cooling of the air concerned to below its dew point.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Full timeline at following links.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Why not go onto aviation enthusiast forums and ask questions of some of the old timers? Ask them about persistent contrails during their years of observations? Show them your photographic 'evidence'.

www.airshows.co.uk...

www.aeroresource.co.uk...

www.keypublishing.com...

Why not try the following? There is a whole host of aviation knowledge on there going back decades. Why not try telling the pilots on there that their aircraft can't produce persistent contrails? You might get lucky and stumble upon a whistleblower.

www.pprune.org...

Airforce Scientist Admits Chemtrails Are Real

As continuing chemtrail activity culminated in massive aerial spraying over Vancouver Island and Washington state March 20, 2002, and broadening plumes once again fanned out to haze clear blue skies – Air Traffic Controllers at major airports across the United States expressed concern over the emissions constantly showing up on their radar screens.

These radar returns are the signature of the fine aluminum particles found in laboratory tests of chemtrail-contaminated rain taken in Espanola, Ontario in the summer of 1999. The lab analysis found reflective quartz particles in the chemtrail fallout — and levels of aluminum FIVE TIMES higher than Ontario’s maximum permissible health safety standards.
In a fourth interview with reporter S.T. Brendt last week, Deep Sky stated that Air Traffic Controllers at Chicago’s O’Hare airport, all three major airports in New York, Los Angeles LAX, San Francisco, Atlanta, Cleveland, San Diego, Washington DC’s Dulles and Jacksonville, Florida, were being ordered to route airliners beneath formations of Air Force tanker planes spraying something that regularly clouds their screens.

Every controller, without exception, is being told to divert traffic due to military exercises , and to bring in traffic lower because of experiments that may degrade their radars. The controllers at Cleveland’s airport were surprised by the extent of obscuration on their radars.

Chemtrail Scientist Breaks Silence
Ohio is the home of Wright-Patterson — the air force base working with electromagnetic and weather modification technology. A scientist working at Wright-Patterson recently told reporter Bob Fitrakis that two different projects are being conducted.

One involves cloud creation experiments to lessen the effect of global warming. Other chemtrails are connected with the military’s extremely high-power Radio Frequency beam weapon in Alaska called HAARP.

The scientist claims that the two most common substances being sprayed into chemtrails are aluminum oxide and barium stearate. When you see planes flying back and forth marking parallel lines, X-patterns and grids in a clear sky, that’s aluminum oxide, according to the scientist.

The goal is to create an artificial sunscreen to reflect solar radiation back into space to alleviate global warming. In some cases, barium may be sprayed in a similar manner for the purpose of high-tech 3-D radar imaging.

aircrap.org...
www.thetruthsource.org...

Adamant debunker of chemtrails will be along soon to call it fake or a joke or a hoax someone played as expected but it's always fun to see em' get all hot and bothered about it.

Here's a picture I took after lunch yesterday



iPhone, HDR on. Marina del Rey, California.