For the Skeptics that believe Healing is fake, heres PROOF

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I see this thread as an intent to prove something.
I think we should all simply explain the science and suspend the name calling and pointed remarks...I respect anyone whom actually is wanting to give evidence.

The dude didn't know the science behind what he was doing, and so the suggestion of the glass (tube, etc) around was given. really nothing more needs to be said..and either he will accept it and move on, or redesign over and over until something interesting is produced..but lets not blast someone to kingdom come for their first (flawed) experiment.

Helpful suggestions works far better in bringing people into knowledge than ridicule..and we are after all here for knowledge verses just a fun exercise of flaming one another, no?

While I would like to believe that the "dude" didn't understand the science, I just don't think that is an excuse of ignorance.

He deliberately posted this thread, knowing full well that he would be shot down and debunked.

While I agree that we should not be calling others names, I do however, feel that if he is smart enough to light a candle, then he is smart enough to know that his "Proof" proves nothing.

He is merely either seriously delusional, or, he is trolling for flags.

If he is making money "healing" people, and is using this as proof, then he is a criminal committing fraud by deception. I think that is pretty serious, and I don't think that ATS members should assist him in fraud.

reply to post by WiindWalker


Your belief in what you are doing is admirable, but what you are showing us is not what is happening. In the first video, when you use your hands going in and back, in and back; this "in" creates force (pressure) to move the flame away, the "back" creates force (vacuum) that sucks the flame back with your hands; anybody can do this.

In the second video, you are doing the same thing.

If you want to prove to us that you have some kind of power, then take that candle and put it on the windowsil in your living room by a big plate glass window, and then you go outside (leave the candle inside the house) and try those same experiments from on the other side of the plate glass window. Make sure you film it, so that we can (all have a good laugh) see your reaction when you realize you don't have the power that you state. We'll feel bad for you when you finally realize you don't have the power you suggest that you have, but you will be the wiser for it, and won't make this type of mistake again in your life.

But.... don't give up believing.

Coming back here after doing the experiment I stated above and telling us that you had fooled yourself into believing that you had some other ability takes a big man; and big men are not laughed at when they have the guts to admit they were wrong. We've all made mistakes, so why not admit it and then be done with it.

reply to post by WiindWalker


Clearly everything has to be spelled out to the disbelievers. I stated that this is the SAME energy I use for healing. What I was TRYING to show, was that the energy was there and real.' I stated in my OP if you would have read, that I do not have any injuries to heal at the moment such as cuts, but when I do, I will heal them on video for you to show you that I'm not bsing anyone here.

Originally posted by phantomjack

Originally posted by SaturnFX
I see this thread as an intent to prove something.
I think we should all simply explain the science and suspend the name calling and pointed remarks...I respect anyone whom actually is wanting to give evidence.

The dude didn't know the science behind what he was doing, and so the suggestion of the glass (tube, etc) around was given. really nothing more needs to be said..and either he will accept it and move on, or redesign over and over until something interesting is produced..but lets not blast someone to kingdom come for their first (flawed) experiment.

Helpful suggestions works far better in bringing people into knowledge than ridicule..and we are after all here for knowledge verses just a fun exercise of flaming one another, no?

While I would like to believe that the "dude" didn't understand the science, I just don't think that is an excuse of ignorance.

He deliberately posted this thread, knowing full well that he would be shot down and debunked.

While I agree that we should not be calling others names, I do however, feel that if he is smart enough to light a candle, then he is smart enough to know that his "Proof" proves nothing.

He is merely either seriously delusional, or, he is trolling for flags.

If he is making money "healing" people, and is using this as proof, then he is a criminal committing fraud by deception. I think that is pretty serious, and I don't think that ATS members should assist him in fraud.

Your statement would be true if I actually wanted to give the time and energy to waste here on the boards just to lie to people. No thanks, not my style. I have 3 kids of my own and to be honest, I don't have the energy or time to sit there and "think" up crap to speal to you guys here.

Originally posted by WiindWalker
Your statement would be true if I actually wanted to give the time and energy to waste here on the boards just to lie to people. No thanks, not my style. I have 3 kids of my own and to be honest, I don't have the energy or time to sit there and "think" up crap to speal (sic) to you guys here.

yet you've just spent a considerable amount of time and energy doing just that. I don;t know which is sadder, the fact that you actually believe you have proven something here or that you expect us to believe it.You have been amply outted here. Game over.

It's time for the hook.

Originally posted by schuyler

Originally posted by WiindWalker
Your statement would be true if I actually wanted to give the time and energy to waste here on the boards just to lie to people. No thanks, not my style. I have 3 kids of my own and to be honest, I don't have the energy or time to sit there and "think" up crap to speal (sic) to you guys here.

yet you've just spent a considerable amount of time and energy doing just that. I don;t know which is sadder, the fact that you actually believe you have proven something here or that you expect us to believe it.You have been amply outted here. Game over.

It's time for the hook.

No, what is sad is that you limit yourself as a human and limit your potential to evolve.

I will say don't stop believing in what this "Chi" can do as far as healing, that is unless you are just faking it 100% if so then you have closed any ability on this regard for this lifetime, a strange thing happens if you have faith in what will happen no matter what modality...... and an equally strange one when you claim to and don't.

However having seen people who do manipulate this kind of energy, and spent some time with them, don't expect to see anything in the physical to prove it, besides results of not of healing, so anyone who is reading this thread who feels they can do this, follow your heart, your truth, and maybe consider the following.

I cant see the radio waves in my house, in me around me but they are there sort of thing.

You run the danger OP of getting on the wrong vibration to develop and use this any further, and this thread may make you not have "faith" in what you can do....

oh just an closing thing that is so important, and you should take as your guide in the future with this activity, if you want to use and channel what you claim to have experienced, the real ones I have observed always go on the following premise no matter what religion, shaman etc they are:

Matthew 6:3 But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,

Matthew 6:5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

Matthew 6:16 "When you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show men they are fasting. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

and in modern prose

Young's Literal Translation
whenever, therefore, thou mayest do kindness, thou mayest not sound a trumpet before thee as the hypocrites do, in the synagogues, and in the streets, that they may have glory from men; verily I say to you -- they have their reward!

Do your work, keep it secret anyhow opening an door to this energy is not being the energy itself, remember the greatest pitfall of seekers thinking yourself God and not seeing it in others in equal measure to.

All meant with love, support and some advice from someone who may have been through similar.

Love

Elf

Originally posted by dplum517
@ ballisticmouse ....... you sound like an atheistic pessimistic fool with no understanding of other cultures.

atheistic?
what does belief in a deity have anything to do with it.
He might also be a vegan..but that doesn't have much to do with the topic at hand.

Originally posted by WiindWalker
EDIT**** Here is another video of my hand BEHIND the glass of the candle, impossible for turbulance.

edit on 24-1-2012 by WiindWalker because: (no reason given)

just flagged the thread because I seen you added a second video.
Again, fail test is fail..the glass is barely above the candle.
ok, so we don't start a measurement over intent discussion...basically put it behind a window..make sure there is no exposure to the air (coming down). I was thinking when saying glass, like one of those tallboy superpint things with a small candle right at the very bottom.

I think if your truely believing this, it would do you well also to do this test. Keep at it. This is how experimentation is done..try something, then change it, then try again with the changes, then keep going over and over, eliminating all flaws until either it is disproven, or proven.

But anyhow, props for listening and showing you do want to at least try to debunk or prove it..now, toss it behind a window, or bottom of a vase..not a shot glass.

Unless I see some cool magic blasting out of their hands I'll keep thinking it's fake. I wanna see it with my eyes for once. This reality is boring.

Originally posted by Alyssa
I wanna see it with my eyes for once. This reality is boring.

Clean your eyes then, on the inside and behold what you see.

The glorious power of an grain of sand dancing with the rest of the universe will surpasse all the CGI you could dream of even in your wildest imaginations.

The Breath of an flower will amaze you, and be enough to never seek anymore,

Just because "YOU" cant see it yet, does not mean others don't and its not there if tuned in as such.

You WILL ALWAYS be bored if you seek the answers "OUT THERE" with your eyes my love.

Elf

reply to post by WiindWalker

Thanks for the post, man! I'm currently looking into chi energy myself at the moment by working with a 'Torsion Field Generator'. Just like a microwave oven, I do not yet understand as to HOW / WHY this works, I just know it does through personal experience. I can definitely feel the energy in my palms hours after meditation.

I also highly recommend having look at John Chang.


Keep that energy up, WiindWalker!

While I believe in many areas of the paranormal, I take issue with most of the material regarding development of the more "flashy" psychic abilities.

OP, I can speak from experience here, I was interested in this field when I was young, and in the early 2000's the Psi/Ki/Qi/Chi discussion forums were booming. One of the best being Psipog.net. There was a lot of information there worth reading. There were videos of people posting "proof" by spinning little paper wheels, moving the flame of a candle, etc. It was all very interesting. But no one ever progressed. No one ever scooted a deck of cards, no one rolled a film canister. There were rarely videos of people moving anything heavier than a straw, and if there was something larger, the video quality was suspiciously poor, there would be zero audio, and the way in which the larger objects moved were indicative of the use of magnets or magicians string. Add to that that most items were usually balanced precariously on a tack or nail so as to lessen any kind of surface resistance, and the mechanics of these techniques become clear. I can put a piece of paper on a tack right now and do the same thing, and I have before. It worked the first time I tried years ago, it's a pretty easy trick.

The problem with the communities that focused on developing telekinetic abilities and whatnot was that they were filled with mostly young people. People who watched entirely too much Dragon Ball Z. I see that you yourself have the Dragon from that series as your avatar. The site I mentioned earlier, Psipog, was started with what I believe to be good intent, by a young man who really wanted to understand these kinds of abilities. It came to the point that most communities with decent reputations barred any kind of reference to Dragon Ball Z and the terms associated with the series because it was doing a disservice to the research. They differentiated their individual mindsets by referring to theirs as "Psi" and the DBZ fans usually used ki, qi, Chi, etc. Really just a semantics issue, but anyway.

The DBZ fans, or those who leaned to the more fantastical side, tended to have active imaginations, which fed into their exaggerated claims (e.g. shooting Kamehameha's at each other and leaving visible bruises and marks), were easily excited by even the smallest results(e.g. treating a flickering flame as if it were a fireball shot from the palms) and would try to one up each other like there was no tomorrow. Everyone else took a more realistic approach to it.

So, what is my point with all this? It's that those who took the more scholarly approach eventually learned what everyone else is telling you. Not necessarily that these abilities are impossible, just that the results individuals get from these methods aren't what many think they are. The proof of this being that it's incredibly unlikely that ones abilities will progress past a certain point using these techniques, because it isn't the actual phenomenon. If it were, evidence past spinning objects and candle flames would be abundant. Especially for those who practiced the abilities for several years. Those who took it seriously back in the day eventually tired of their lack of progress and moved onto other areas, while those who reveled in the one-upsmanship and the attention their grainy videos garnered stuck with it until they became bored, and went on their way as well.

I don't post all this to break your balls, nor do I think people are trying to troll you. I'm just saying, if this is something you are into and really want to learn more about, I encourage you to go about it with more reputable sources. Don't bother with those communities. Read books on the subject from the days before the internet. Study the phenomenon, be objective, and ultimately, be honest with yourself.

Look, it's not that I don't believe in chi, the paranormal, even the supernatural. There are plenty of things we can't see and the idea that the world is completely mechanistic is, I think, false. And we certainly don't know everything.

The point here is that the OP has not proven anything by his little parlor trick. Nothing. Nada. It's not even good. It's completely nonsensical. It's grade school stuff that ANYONE can replicate in the privacy of their own home. He's creating wind that moves the flame (in both vids.) And his reaction to criticism is completely juvenile.

That's delusional. You could just as easily claim every bolt of thunder was thrown by Zeus.

Is THIS experiment what we accept as quality on ATS?

I sure hope not!

Originally posted by MischeviousElf


The glorious power of an grain of sand dancing with the rest of the universe will surpasse all the CGI you could dream of even in your wildest imaginations.

I love saltation.
Seriously!

Until you experience it, you can never understand it.

I was a total disbeliever before I was proven wrong.
I was 8 months pregnant with my son. He was situated so far under my rib that it had popped out and he had been there for over a week.
My Massage Therapist would not work on me due to my having complications in the pregnancy so he offered reiki.
A mere 10 seconds of concentration with one hand under my back one hovering over top was enough to convince me.
My stomach heated up to an uncomfortable temperature and my son scooted over to escape it.

I don't think it is magic. I think we are all capable of it to some degree.

reply to post by blackrain17


The man in that video is John Chang aka "Magnus of Java", he depends on people believing he has chi energy in order to earn a living. The documentary makers Lawrence and Lorne Blair also depend on viewers to make a living, as does the "skeptical" sound engineer.

This post offers some explanations,

On first viewing, Chang appears to be doing a few simple carnival tricks:

1. "Generating electricity" - this is normally done with the use of a small high-frequency, high-voltage, low-amperage device taped to the performer's body. James Randi mentions this device here, regarding others who have done this:

Randi wrote:This “chi” scam artist on YouTube is probably using the very same setup as the Malaysian crook did, a small battery-powered device worn on the body that develops very high voltage at very low amperage, that can be directed from the body of the performer to anything that’s at a lower potential than he is. It’s a form of Tesla coil, and it’s very effective. There’s also a rabbi in New York using this same gimmick to convince the faithful…



2. Catching a "rifle bullet" - what is shown is the firing of a very low-speed pellet that can pierce the wall of an empty soda can. Then, Chang puts his hand in front of the gun. He is in no danger, and there does not appear to be anything extraordinary about what he is doing.

3. Moving a knife - Chang carefully balances a knife on its sheath. It is shown moving slightly in one direction, twice. With such a precariously-balanced object, the slightest breeze will move it readily. All Chang has to do is wait a bit. In the first movement, he has his mouth close to the knife, "talking" to it. In the second, he has leaned back, so either he's caught a breeze, or he started the knife in a position that would naturally swing away, or else he's using his knee (either one would work, but it's hard to tell from that angle which, if either, is in position), to slightly lift the glass tabletop.

4. "Fooling the experts" - they have a CEO, a doctor, and a physicist. They really needed an electrical engineer. They try to use an ordinary volt meter. If he's using the high-frequency device, of course they will not get readings from this! Some experts they are!

Maybe they actually do use the metal detector on his back and feet to check for the device, but this is not shown.

Chang seems to be flexing his back to produce his electricity. I would check between his shoulder blades. I mean, they strip him almost naked, but they let him leave his shirt on?!? Oh, and the color-changing LEDs have different colors depending on the direction of the current, not the amount.

5. "Chopstick through the table" - has anything ever looked more like a set-up magic trick? First, he takes them to his local restaurant. Then he can't make the "chi" work on Formica, so he needs to use the bottom of the table. This trick requires nothing more than a cheap table with a seam in the wood.

As miracles go, I can't say I'm impressed.

Nice thread title, too bad it just doesn't correlate with anything inside the thread.
I have heard about chi, experienced it to some degree and all i have to say is this:

Chi is a force of imagination, intent and creation, created from ones own being through discipline. Created from thought, it manifests, depending on the purity of ones self, what one has learned and how one is open to it, sustains it in different ways and in different degrees.
Ones voice, stature, exercises, mindset, should all reflect the essence of what you have claimed to harness.
The entire being of a person must be in a state of chi/tao to see any results. For he who needs to prove something, is merely seeking ridicule. Why not keep it to yourself, and in your pacifism, people who seek to ridicule, will only be shown the truth.

OS

reply to post by WiindWalker


...really? Are you serious?
Dude, your moving the air around with your hand. If you took a book and waved it like that infront of the candle, it would move the exact same way. If you took a knife and moved it like that infront of the candle, it would move the exact same way. If you took a keyboard from your PC and moved it like that infront of the candle, it would move the exact same way. Should I keep going, or do you get it?

Im not saying Chi is not real, I am quite sure that we have some form of energy within us, that we can control in one way or the other. But that there was not chi, that was you altering the pressure on either side of the flame, to create movement within it. Its first grade physics.