Christians the End of days for us is Around the Corner

reply to post by NOTurTypical
It looks like you are just up to your old tricks again, making wild claims because you heard your cult leader say that on a video but have no direct knowlege yourself.

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
reply to post by autowrench

 

And if you are well read, then you would know that the Rapture Doctrine was made up by John Nelson Darby.....

Wow, that has been thoroughly debunked here. John Darby popularized the rapture doctrine, he did NOT create it. Statements from early church fathers tell that not only did they believe/teach a rapture of the church, but a pre-tribulational one at that.

I'll give you one freebie:

Matthew Henry (1662 - 1714) Uses the word "rapture" in his commentary on 2 Thessalonians for chapter 4. He died a hundred years before John Darby allegedly "cooked up" the rapture doctrine.

Exactly. I'm guessing Autowrench didn't bother to do much research beyond what he heard about Darby. Even the Old Testament prophecies the rapture, from the old prophets and even in Psalms. They need to read Psalms 110-119.

Most people do not know that the old and new testaments verify eachother...i am not surprised, only believers would know that, no one else knows what to look for. Everything that is found in the new testament can be found within the old testament, either outright or in prophecies.

.

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

It looks like you are just up to your old tricks again, making wild claims because you heard your cult leader say that on a video but have no direct knowlege yourself.

You don't have alot of room to talk about cults false prophet. Youre in one yourself, i know all about your little scheme to create your own man-made religion.

reply to post by jmdewey60

It looks like you are just up to your old tricks again, making wild claims because you heard your cult leader say that on a video but have no direct knowlege yourself.

Who needs to read and understand the bible, when there are youtube videos of people giving their interpretations of the bible.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


On this I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with you my friend. To my knowledge there is no conclusive definitive evidence supporting the fact that the early church taught a pre-tribulation doctrine. In fact the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture wasn't even fully developed until the days of Edward Irving who really expounded on the doctrine. Many of the early churches still to this day disagree with the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. I disagree with it simply because it isnt logical to me. It defies our Commission as Christians to preach the Gospel. That is why I disagree with it.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
I disagree with it simply because it isnt logical to me. It defies our Commission as Christians to preach the Gospel. That is why I disagree with it.

Just out of curiosity my friend, do you do what the Gospel outlines while you are preaching it?

It is hard for someone to believe Christ's message to give up all you own to the poor and follow him when the messenger doesn't do it.

These receive their measure with the hypocrites.

With Love,

Your Brother

I can't find a prophetic verse that talks about the blocking out of the sun. Can anybody find one.?

Matthew 4:16 " The people which sat in darkness saw great light"

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
I can't find a prophetic verse that talks about the blocking out of the sun. Can anybody find one.?

Matthew 4:16 " The people which sat in darkness saw great light"

The sun will be darkened, the moon turned to blood and the stars will fall from the heavens.

It's in there some where.

The Sun (Son) will be darkened. Jesus is deemphasised and his message reemphasised.

The moon will turn to blood. Look at the state of Islam right now.

The stars will fall from the heavens. Israel.

With Love,

Your Brother

reply to post by IAMIAM


I have been on 14 mission trips all around the world to almost every continent. I don't say this to brag but I do have some experience in the preaching of Christs' message. I have been to places in the world where the name Jesus Christ has never been uttered. I've seen humans at just about their lowest. Those that me and my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ lead to salvation are baptised and are taught the principles of Christianity and that it is also their duty to carry on Christs legacy and preach the gospels to others. I've seen some amazing and terrifying things but I still believe that Christs message is one of love and forgiveness and that is what I try to teach and show others.

reply to post by IAMIAM

The sun will be darkened, the moon turned to blood and the stars will fall from the heavens.

This is hyperbole and is a way of saying that the amount of evil in the world is so great that it affects the heavens, but not to be taken literally.

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

You don't have alot of room to talk about cults false prophet. Youre in one yourself, i know all about your little scheme to create your own man-made religion.

There is no such thing as a one person cult.
I am working on an unbiased interpretation but I am basing it on solid research and I mean the research of others who are full-time scholars of the academic type which means they do not operate in a vacuum and all their work is thoroughly reviewed before being published, and afterwards.
I am very skeptical of anyone presenting an ideology and if I was to be leading anyone I would want that to others to be equally skeptical and to study things you have questions on.

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
I can't find a prophetic verse that talks about the blocking out of the sun. Can anybody find one.?

Matthew 4:16 " The people which sat in darkness saw great light"

The sun will be darkened, the moon turned to blood and the stars will fall from the heavens.

It's in there some where.

The Sun (Son) will be darkened. Jesus is deemphasised and his message reemphasised.

The moon will turn to blood. Look at the state of Islam right now.

The stars will fall from the heavens. Israel.

With Love,

Your Brother

How is Jesus representative of the sun.?

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

It looks like you are just up to your old tricks again, making wild claims because you heard your cult leader say that on a video but have no direct knowlege yourself.

Use of the word "rapture" before 1830:

"Those that shall be found alive will then be changed. They shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air," 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

At, or immediately before, this rapture into the clouds, those who are alive will undergo a mighty change, which will be equivalent to dying. This change is so mysterious that we cannot comprehend it: we know little or nothing of it, (1 Corinthians 15:51). Only, in the general, this mortal must put on immortality, and these bodies will be made fit to inherit the kingdom of God, which flesh and blood in its present state are not capable of. This change will be in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye (1 Corinthians 15:52), in the very instant, or not long after the raising up of those that sleep in Jesus.

Matthew Henry's Commentary: 2 Thesselonians


This was written on paper at least 100 years before 1830.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

On this I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with you my friend. To my knowledge there is no conclusive definitive evidence supporting the fact that the early church taught a pre-tribulation doctrine. In fact the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture wasn't even fully developed until the days of Edward Irving who really expounded on the doctrine. Many of the early churches still to this day disagree with the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine. I disagree with it simply because it isnt logical to me. It defies our Commission as Christians to preach the Gospel. That is why I disagree with it.

Sorry, but that's simply inaccurate.

Pre-Trib rapture teaching prior to 1830.


People who claim the rapture teaching is a late invention of the the church simply have not done their homework.

reply to post by NOTurTypical



No it is very much accurate and it is a view shared by most theologians and Biblical historians. While the word rapture is expressly mentioned in the Bible the theology of a pre-tribulation rapture is not expressly mentioned. The link you provided I have read before and it doesn't provide any proof just heresay and vaugue references. I have read most if not all of the documents listed in your link and again it doesn't expressly state a pre-tribulation rapture theology. Many of those said references are still to this day debated by theologists and being authentic and accurate in their translations. Jesus didn't teach a rapture theology in fact He taught the exact opposite. He said that we WOULD endure trials and tribulations that we would be hunted and tortured and thrown in jail. I would trust Jesus before anyone else.

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
I can't find a prophetic verse that talks about the blocking out of the sun. Can anybody find one.?

Matthew 4:16 " The people which sat in darkness saw great light"

The sun will be darkened, the moon turned to blood and the stars will fall from the heavens.

It's in there some where.

The Sun (Son) will be darkened. Jesus is deemphasised and his message reemphasised.

The moon will turn to blood. Look at the state of Islam right now.

The stars will fall from the heavens. Israel.

With Love,

Your Brother

How is Jesus representative of the sun.?

Not to deviate too much from the OP's intended topic but this is an interesting video and very insightful. 7:45-9:15 provides some understanding to the answers you seek. Basically, the cross was once a symbol of sun worship dating back to the "sun god" Tammuz in ancient Babylon. The grand story of God's grace overcoming man-made religion is written between the lines of the gospel and by the fact that He overcame the worldy burden of the cross and the worldy fixation on the sun. The crucifixion and resurrection shouts out to us that we must choose between worshiping the sun or the Son, the creation or the Creator.

Originally posted by DarkKnight21

Originally posted by CaptainNemo

Originally posted by IAMIAM

Originally posted by CaptainNemo
I can't find a prophetic verse that talks about the blocking out of the sun. Can anybody find one.?

Matthew 4:16 " The people which sat in darkness saw great light"

The sun will be darkened, the moon turned to blood and the stars will fall from the heavens.

It's in there some where.

The Sun (Son) will be darkened. Jesus is deemphasised and his message reemphasised.

The moon will turn to blood. Look at the state of Islam right now.

The stars will fall from the heavens. Israel.

With Love,

Your Brother

How is Jesus representative of the sun.?

I don't want to derail the OP but this interesting video and very insightful. 7:45-9:15 provides some understanding to the answers you seek. The cross was a symbol of sun worship dating back to the "sun god" Tammuz in ancient Babylon. The grand story of God's grace overcoming man-made religion is written between the lines of the gospel and by the fact that He overcame the worldy burden of the cross. The crucifixion and resurrection shouts out to us that we must choose between worshiping the sun or the Son, the creation or the Creator.

Thank you very much.! I was also not trying to detract from the OP but I really wanted one salient piece of evidence that Jesus Christ was in any way representative of the sun, maybe I missed it never no haha. I'm not to prone to worshiping objects are using symbology with my faith. Jesus is Jesus the son of god, NOT the sun.

I've been doing my own research into the mis-translation of the from the most ancient pictographic hebrew version of the Old testament to the Greek Septuagint which eventually gives us the KJV. The obvious amendments by the Greeks to fit their idealogy, but anyway in support of your video on the inside cover of the KJV I spotted this "the appearance of Your Majesty, as of the Sun in his strength" (In reference to King of great britain) I had a site, and if I can find it again i'll link it up, but it showed 49 points of consistency between the Babylonian worship of Tammuz and Holy Roman Church.! The whore of Babylon indeed.! The worship of Lucifer the light bearer... As he illuminated the mind of Eve, he does the same now.

Please my friends, brothers sisters. God is not the author of confusion...He would not have you guess and assume. I look at the Old testament completely literally...You can't GUESS and mold it into something that fits you.

Originally posted by IAMIAM
reply to post by odinson

 

Congratulations on your renewed faith my friend. I appreciate your elaboration on your post, but it did not answer any of my questions.

As you know, in the end times some will be afflicted with serious delusions. False prophets will rise and attempt to throw the world into greater confusion.

All this is the work of God, so I do not question your source.

What I am questioning is if your actions are being done in the name of the father?

Are you so clear in your conscience that you will attach HIS name to your words?

That is what I want to know.

With Love,

Your Brother

edit on 24-1-2012 by IAMIAM because: (no reason given)

But we are all fooled, Even the elect. If that were possible.

I will happily attach his name to the interpretaion that I post.






except the ones about the end of days. LOL

reply to post by I Want To Believe

Many of those said references are still to this day debated by theologists and being authentic and accurate in their translations.

Looks like you've learned the first lesson of Theology.

One is not required to be a believer to be a Theologian.

reply to post by IAMIAM


Hello Brother
Here is the one part that talks about the elect:

Matthew 24:24 (Whole Chapter)
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

I take this to mean that if you don't know the Bible thoroughly and trust that it's the truth, then you can be deceived. there are too many people claiming to be 'sealed' and boasting about it, literally, and putting others down. To some they would seem to be the elect.

This is why people must have a Bible handy and consult with it because the devil knows it thoroughly and will use our knowledge to confuse us.

God Bless