Judge orders woman to give up password to hard drive

Originally posted by truthinfact
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

However though, this has nothing to do with her rights. She is in contempt of court my friend, WITHOLDING EVIDENCE is the worst thing you could EVER do. (in terms of our court system.)

They can make her sit in a jail cell the rest of her life, she is in Contempt! SHE has to turn over the evidence. That supersedes the fifth amendment. Its set up this way for a reason.

Imagine if CEOs could just destroy the evidence of their crimes or not turn it over because they "Plead the 5th, that evidence makes me look guilty!"


This women must not have a lawyer yet. lol you can't withhold evidence, especially if the evidence makes you look guilty!

edit on 24-1-2012 by truthinfact because: (no reason given)

The longest someone was held in jail on a contempt of
court is 14 years.
In civil contempt cases there is no principle of proportionality. In Chadwick v. Janecka (3d Cir. 2002), a U.S. court of appeals held that H. Beatty Chadwick could be held indefinitely under federal law, for his failure to produce US$ 2.5 mill. as state court ordered in a civil trial. Chadwick had been imprisoned for nine years at that time and continued to be held in prison until 2009, when a state court set him free after 14 years, making his imprisonment the longest on a contempt charge to date.en.wikipedia.org...

What if she really did forget the password?
they can not hold her forever on that alone.

The gov doesnt need any passwords...we all know they never do. The Gov-geeks will just go inside and retrieve it all. Encrypted or not..that no deterent to the geeks. Seize it as "evidence" with a warrant.

If she tampers with it...it would be destroying "evidence"...also a crime. All they gotta do is obatin a warrant to seize it from her.

I agree with EVERYONE that said this is an invasion of our privacy, freedoms and our rights.
But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
What if this was about a man and the police were asking this man for the password for his computer as they suspected that the suspect had murders or child pornography, ect, ect on their computer? Wouldnt we all be calling for the police to beat said man until he handed over his password.?

So are we all just hypocrytics???????

This is a great thread.
Thanks for making me think

COMMON! Kevin Mitnick paved the way for us on this one back in like '95. The answer is simple:

I'm sorry your honor, I was really high when I put the password on there, I just can't remember

They can't jail you for being forgetful.

This doesn't make alot of sense to me. We moved a few years ago and kept our laptops out while sending the desktops to storage , months later when my daughter went to use her desktop she no longer remembered the p/w . I paid $10 on Ebay to buy a disk that gave us the p/w in minutes. LOLOLOL

Originally posted by Elisha03011972
This doesn't make alot of sense to me. We moved a few years ago and kept our laptops out while sending the desktops to storage , months later when my daughter went to use her desktop she no longer remembered the p/w . I paid $10 on Ebay to buy a disk that gave us the p/w in minutes. LOLOLOL

Probably because it's pretty easy to recover a windows password.

If you instead use strong encryption (not windows) for a disk with a strong password, it can take a long time to crack. How long?

Do not type your real pass in this site, but go to this link and make up a password of the same number of letters and numbers as the password you use. It will tell you how long it will take to crack it, but it can probably be done several times faster than what's shown, as speeds are constantly increasing.

howsecureismypassword.net...

Here's my results:
It would take 1 second to brute force my e-mail password which is pretty short. This I know.
My hard drive password is longer, it will take "About 60 quadrillion years" to brute force it.

So you see, your password length can make a difference. So can the system used to encrypt the data.

__________________

Legally, you would think that authorities
could only search and seize a computer if there
was sufficient evidence that a crime was committed with it.
To seize a computer to try to build a case around
a defendant is a witch-hunt.

__________________

any updates on if she has caved or is gonna fight it yet or not?

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


Can you also say no, you can't search my house for evidence? Of course not. This, to me, is very similar. They executed a search warrant to legally obtain information. In a non-data age it would have been stored in files, accessible. Now it's digitally stored, as long as they legally obtained the evidence there is no problem. Or do you want your tax dollars being wasted cracking the password?

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Here is your problem, if someone gets a warrant, what are they looking for? Do they already have evidence? You can get a warrant for the key for the lock but not the combination.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


Actually, I'd say yes I'd like to see the money spent to crack the password. When you go to court say for something less severe like a traffic violation. If you contest it, you are required to pay for court costs. That's what funds the judicial system. If she's convicted due to the information on the hard drive, then most likely court costs as well as the sentence will be opposed on her. They should use that money, which is what it's intended for, to pay for the guy to press a few buttons and use the software to decrypt it.

Originally posted by spav5
Absolutely it is a violation. Peace

Surely, to give passwords is not self incrimination. We can all hide behind interpretations of this, that and the other, but perhaps sometimes the “spirit” of the intention is being abused.

Would we all be so sympathetic is she was an alleged paedophile, perhaps with data on her hard drive which could save a few vulnerable children? I suspect not.

Regards

I do feel that it is within her rights under the 5th amendment not to give them the password, but I would like to add that if she is guilty I am glad she is being stubborn about it. They will get in anyway, and be much harder on her in the sentencing phase. If she is guilty of scamming people out of their hard earned money then I hope the judge gives her all he can.

The best way is to ask for a lawyer and stay shut. They have to prove that you have brainwaves and know the existence of the password. They have to scan your brain to prove that you know the password, otherwise they have no case.

reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL


I wouldn't say that they have no case. They will get into the computer with or without her help. If she is convicted she will likely face harsher penalties due to her unwillingness to cooperate. Really no matter how you look at it she is being pretty stupid IMO. There is nothing to be gained by her by not giving up the info.

reply to post by Majiq


Sometimes they just cant get into the computer:

www.reddit.com...

This is why they are asking for the PW, if she used good encryption not even the FBI or CIA would be able to get in.

Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by Majiq

 

Sometimes they just cant get into the computer:

www.reddit.com...

This is why they are asking for the PW, if she used good encryption not even the FBI or CIA would be able to get in.

That was a great read! Thanks for that! I had always assumed that the Government probally employed some of the best hackers on the planet, and there was no chance in hell in hinding something on your HDD, but it seems TrueCrypt is legit.

She isn't incriminating her self by giving the password. If she claims the 5th she is basically saying she has "evidence" on the HD that she knows will net her a conviction. The 5th is to have the option to not bear witness to your self.

By supplying the password to a inanimate object, that can't talk it goes no were near the 5th, She can't speak through the object and she can't claim that by giving the password she incriminating her self either.

this is simple people, The only reason she would try and pull this B.S is because she is guilty and she knows it other wise a rational person would hand the password over and prove they are innocent.

Either way, she is going to jail and she is going to lose.

Originally posted by YouAreLiedTo
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL

 

Thought?

She should have re-written over the hard drive ten or fifteen times the night she knew she was being charged.

Or the fireplace... Whichever is more convenient.

I marvel at the sheer stupidity of people that hold evidence against themselves.

(BTW - I am NOT saying its right for them to make her give up her password. I do NOT agree with the ruling. I just don't agree with her keeping the hard drive around either, heh.)

My guess is that the police didn't give her the time to do that. Just a hunch, seeing as they aren't stupid either, and know exactly what anyone with half a brain would do given the chance.

I marvel at people who cannot fathom that above idea.

"Oh, hi. Just letting you know Ms. that we'll be over in about a week to seize your computer. Any incriminating evidence you have on there, eh, you know, you might clean that up before we arrive. Ta!"
"Thanks, but I trust that my encryption will be sufficient! You guys call back if you have any more friendly news for me!"

Originally posted by Reaper2137
By supplying the password to a inanimate object, that can't talk it goes no were near the 5th,

So...you didn't read the reddit link in the post a couple of posts before yours then?