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Judge orders woman to give up password to hard drive

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posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 12:22 PM
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Originally posted by caladonea
If she has nothing to hide and didn't do anything wrong...why not just comply...then when it is all over...make a new password.


^^^The pinnacle of ignorance and the slippery slope to tyranny always begins with "If ___ has nothing to hide..."^^^

I will explain why NOT to comply. Number 1, she is protected by the Bill of Rights in a number of ways... The 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Ammendment come to mind immediately. Whether or not she has something to hide is irrelevant in our judicial system. Number 2, once a right is surrendered it cannot be regained. Number 3, the law requires that PROSECUTORS build a case againt her as she is innocent until PROVEN guilty. In fact, without knowing the particulars of her arrest, she may be in illegal detention as we speak.

People with the attitude about "Nothing to hide" are dangers to freedom, liberty and the American way. You have been brainwashed to believe in the "Nothing to hide" doctrine. We already have very strict judicial due-process already and yet THOUSANDS languish in jails due to wrongful conviction. The "Nothing to hide" doctrine only ensure that that this number increases exponentially.

Please, deny ignorance at all costs - or be prepared to pay for it with your freedom and the freedom of others!




posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 12:37 PM
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Not only does it violate our right to not self-incriminate, but it violates freedom of speech. By ordering her to give up the password they are trying to force her to say or write something, that is a violation of freedom of speech.

The judge can order all he wants, you can't force someone to do something. All they can do is fine you and throw you in jail, even that is abused. Would be hilarious if they cracked the password and then found there wasn't any evidence on it in the first place.

The judicial system is a joke, they probably don't have the right person anyways. They don't care, as long as someone goes to jail and they make their money.
edit on 24-1-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by kozmo
 


Thank you for your response. You and some others have got me to thinking more about my original response...and I admit that I have been ignorant about this issue.

To all...you have taught me today...and I appreciate it.
edit on 24-1-2012 by caladonea because: correction



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:06 PM
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She is protected still, under the rights given to us durring the founding of this country..


However.. There are specialists who get paid to crack stuff like this. I say.. Let the cracker figure it out. It'll be broken open in 2 weeks. Big deal! Too much idiocy over nothing.. Just hack the HD already!

She should not HAVE to give up anything, but if she's being investigated.... There are ways to get in that drive, which I feel, in this cituation, is legit.


So, lets look at the other side of this... Go the way of 24Hours/48Hours, whatever... What if there was information on that drive that would lead to the death of 4 million people the next day... Should she have to tell? What tortures then would be nessissary?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by caladonea
If she has nothing to hide and didn't do anything wrong...why not just comply...then when it is all over...make a new password.



To all that have challenged and corrected me today....I thank you. You have expanded my mind and my learning process.

I admit it...I was ignorant on this issue and foolish. I stand corrected and I apologize.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:10 PM
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reply to post by theRhenn
 


This case has been going on for some time now. If she was using TrueCrypt and took the appropriate encryption protocols, forget it, the government wont crack it.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


I dunno. I read a story a few days ago that the 128 bit encription is nothing now. Someone found a fairly EASY way to do it. Given to the right people, I'm sure it can be ripped apart. Im sure the court could also subpeona someone from that company to try and get into it.


With the tools and the knowhow, that we have today, and especially the people involved in the abilities, I find it very hard to believe that at least some information cannot be taken from the drive. They could attach various password finding schemes to help as well. Somehow I dobt that her password is that difficult. It's probably her cat's name. lol



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:37 PM
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Interesting issue, I had no idea that someone could withhold that information. An issue like this will make it to the SCOTUS eventually, will be something to see when it gets there.

So if she were suspected of hiding bodies in a vault at her house and a judge ordered her to cough up the combination to the locks, she could just take the 5th?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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reply to post by theRhenn
 


Here is why that can't happen,
if computer techs were messing around with her hard drive to break into it, she could argue they weren't cracking the code but tampering with the evidence! The judge would have no choice but to throw out the evidence. Especially if the means of obtaining said evidence are new and not recognized by the court systems.

That's why this is a paradoxical case!

She isn't testifying against herself, thats what the Fifth Amendment is really for!
SO YOU CANT just throw someone on the stand and force them to confess their crimes to a jury!
That is the 5th amendment. Nothing to do with evidence! AT ALL! That is why she is in contempt!



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by TrueBrit
Ok , heres a straight up FACT for everyones enjoyment. This whole scenario is bogus, and is being designed in order to make it appear as if anyone who has data on thier computer, has any defense against having thier information accessed by the government at any time.

The data could already have been in the hands of prosecutors, and her passwords, security systems, interesting homebrewed hacks and drive kills would have been circumvented utterly in under a day, by government employed hackers and forensic computer specialists, IF they really wanted into her data. Regular folks , and even highly skilled hackers are all fooling themselves if they think that electronic data, on any device, cannot be accessed by the tyrants at the drop of a hat.


I tend to agree with this.

I think they are setting up some kind of "example" for future legislation.


The forensic hacks can do this easy enough.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:01 PM
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Listen. No one is more convinced than I that the Patriot Act and the TSA rifling through our things in unapologetic definance of the 4th amendment represented the end of our Constitution long before the 2011 NDAA bill.

But THIS is entirely different.

The authorities had probable cause and went through all legitimate legal channels. I fail to see the problem.

Sometimes I think non-controversies like these are planted among real ones to neutralize the overall effects of calling out bona fide threats to our liberties that are actually happening.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by truthinfact
reply to post by theRhenn
 


Here is why that can't happen,
if computer techs were messing around with her hard drive to break into it, she could argue they weren't cracking the code but tampering with the evidence! The judge would have no choice but to throw out the evidence. Especially if the means of obtaining said evidence are new and not recognized by the court systems.

That's why this is a paradoxical case!

She isn't testifying against herself, thats what the Fifth Amendment is really for!
SO YOU CANT just throw someone on the stand and force them to confess their crimes to a jury!
That is the 5th amendment. Nothing to do with evidence! AT ALL! That is why she is in contempt!



She needs to hire you as her lawyer...



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by tkwasny
Time/date deadman switch. If you have not "checked in" over a certain number of days. The hard drive automatically reformats even with the right password. Not even the owner can stop it.
edit on 24-1-2012 by tkwasny because: (no reason given)



They probably already have a clone of the drive, and I doubt the original is not plugged into a power source.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:30 PM
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how about this for a defence. it's full proof and you won't go to jail: i forgot.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 06:30 PM
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Originally posted by caladonea
reply to post by kozmo
 


Thank you for your response. You and some others have got me to thinking more about my original response...and I admit that I have been ignorant about this issue.

To all...you have taught me today...and I appreciate it.
And thank you for making one of the best posts I've ever read on ATS.

It is extremely heartwarming to me to see that people actually learn things here; I've learned things too. I think a lot of people would be a whole lot smarter if they had your attitude and realized that we all have something to learn.

Peace.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 06:51 PM
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I have heard that an oxy-acetylene torch can wipe a hard drive...wipe into slag. Any smart attorney will tell you to never answer questions, even if you believe it will help you and you believe you have nothing to hide. None of us have seen or read any of the evidence and yet people have "opinions" on what displays guilt. That is how the jury is hanged. Whether guilty or not, we need to observe our rights and let the preponderence of evidence fall on the court to prove. In other words... I would slag an $800 computer if I knew it would cost 20 years. Oh yeah, but I have nothing to hide haha



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


She helped to destroy people's lives......

damn it she SHOULD hand the password over.....thats where she has her criminal actions hidden!



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by truthinfact
Hey I am siding with the courts, the judge did the right thing, HE GOT A WARRANT.

Nothing wrong with gettin' a warrant. She shouldn't'a' (should not have) done the crime!


The warrant is for the contents of the drive, not for the password. If it does cover the password, it is an illegal, and invalid, warrant. The judge is a sub-human fascist. He'll probably replace Holder if he gets canned. This guy would fit right in.

/TOA



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by bluemirage5
reply to post by THE_PROFESSIONAL
 


She helped to destroy people's lives......

damn it she SHOULD hand the password over.....thats where she has her criminal actions hidden!


Yes, she should hand over the password. I think she needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law. But the moment she hands over that password because of this absolute violation of the 5th Amendment by a fascist federal piece of filth, that precedent will be set. And then you, I, and everyone else will have yet another protection from our government taken away.

Her crime is very, very small compared to an entire country's freedoms.

/TOA



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 10:17 PM
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Originally posted by THE_PROFESSIONAL
reply to post by theRhenn
 


This case has been going on for some time now. If she was using TrueCrypt and took the appropriate encryption protocols, forget it, the government wont crack it.


Serious cryptologists would agree and they would also claim that the easiest access to encrypted data is to expose the key (password), not to attempt to break the algorithm of the encryption. The average user utilizes passwords that are both too short and do not have enough variation.

Example of variation - 2&K;qU?@amP etc

Combine a long, variable password with 128 bit encryption and you have a truly concealed and unopenable set of data.



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