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A Pillar of Salt

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posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:17 AM
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I'm pretty sure this thread has not been covered in a while...so I'm going to take a crack at it, out of sheer curiosity.

I was having a conversation last night regarding the validity of the Bible...and the person I was discussing the matter with said not only did they find remains of Noah's ark, but they also found Lot's wife. In case you're drawing a blank (and if you are, this question might not be for you) Lot's wife was the woman God turned into a pillar of salt after she disobeyed his orders.

Now, he said they had found her...on Mount Sodom. I have looked at the image, and honestly, I run into three problems. One, that pillar looks pretty big to have been a human...although with God, you'll have Lot's (hehe) of people saying "God can do anything." I would define that as godmodding. Easiest way to make sense out of something is an all-powerful being. That way, logic and natural laws need not be concerned.

Regardless...my other problem is that salt will eventually erode. Salt is not as durable as rock...it will wear away over time. And this particular so-called 'pillar of salt' has had plenty of time to wear away, yet it looks pretty good for having been there for hundreds of years.

My third problem with this is that it doesn't look anything like salt. If it was pure salt, it would be whitish, would it not? If it had not been pure salt, then surely that detail would have been included in the story, as such details were shared in so many other stories. This pillar looks like...well, ROCK. Not salt. Rock.

So, here's my question: This man I talked to said he watched a program about it on tv. I want to know if any of you ATS'ers are familiar with this "discovery", if you know whether it's been debunked or not, or if you know anything about it at all.

Here's a link to show you what image I looked at. And yes, it was the only thing that came up when I searched.

en.wikipedia.org...:MountSodom061607.jpg
edit on CTuesdayam323218f18America/Chicago24 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)

edit on CTuesdayam010119f19America/Chicago24 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:22 AM
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well known roman historian Flavious Josephus said in his works that he had seen the pillar himself. however there is ample evidence that his works had been edited in the centuries after his death.

interesting thread.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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reply to post by CaDreamer
 



Indeed. I would rather not get dragged into the "believer system" based on the word of a sheeple Christian...

For example, I asked him for his opinion on the thought that perhaps sin was necessary for the spiritual progress of man...he said that was for God to know, not him.
Then I asked him whether he didn't drink (purely for thinking purposes) because of God, or because he knew it was harmful. His answer: he didn't know.

In essence, he had a very hard time thinking for himself, instead letting the Bible do his thinking for him. That line of thought was proven when he asked if I was just pretending to be stupid, or really was.

And now it has come down to real, physical proof of Biblical events, and I want to know the facts for future reference. Thus, I am coming to ATS, because I know a lot of you think for yourselves. I want an intelligent, well-grounded appraisal instead of the usual "Baaa-aaaa!" I keep hearing from my end of things.
edit on CTuesdayam545433f33America/Chicago24 by Starchild23 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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The "pillar of salt" that you are referring to IS a rock formation. It is meant to be a tourist attraction. Religion and commerce go hand in hand. It is located in an area that is above the water on the coastline and can be seen from ships/boats. The "pillar of salt" is a good way to sell day cruises...that is all it is.

And you don't know the real story, obviously. "God" did not command Lot's wife to do anything. Start with researching Lot's wife's name and see where that leads you. Also, remember that the "angels" who came to town were the same ones that arrived with the "God" who had dinner with Abraham and Sara. I think this "God" was a military general or something. Lot was not spared because he was righteous; Lot was spared only because he was related to Abraham. If you go back and read the scriptures, God divulged to Abraham that there were some "plans" for Sodom and Gomorrah and a few other towns in that vicinity. "God" asked if Abe had any friends or family in that area, and since Lot was a relative, that's why Lot's family was warned to GTFO.

The REAL reason for the attack on Sodom and Gomorrah was no different from the wars of today....it's all about taking other people's resources. Someone wanted the tar pits! Yep, it's always about oil! The bitumen was used in shipbuilding. And it was very convenient that there were fault lines in that area that could be "salted" (a metaphor) to cause a quake and great disturbance. Explosives in fault lines are an old trick. And it's easy to use superstition on ignorant people to make them think "God" is punishing them for not being perfect.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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Originally posted by Alethea
The "pillar of salt" that you are referring to IS a rock formation. It is meant to be a tourist attraction. Religion and commerce go hand in hand. It is located in an area that is above the water on the coastline and can be seen from ships/boats. The "pillar of salt" is a good way to sell day cruises...that is all it is.

And you don't know the real story, obviously. "God" did not command Lot's wife to do anything. Start with researching Lot's wife's name and see where that leads you. Also, remember that the "angels" who came to town were the same ones that arrived with the "God" who had dinner with Abraham and Sara. I think this "God" was a military general or something. Lot was not spared because he was righteous; Lot was spared only because he was related to Abraham. If you go back and read the scriptures, God divulged to Abraham that there were some "plans" for Sodom and Gomorrah and a few other towns in that vicinity. "God" asked if Abe had any friends or family in that area, and since Lot was a relative, that's why Lot's family was warned to GTFO.

The REAL reason for the attack on Sodom and Gomorrah was no different from the wars of today....it's all about taking other people's resources. Someone wanted the tar pits! Yep, it's always about oil! The bitumen was used in shipbuilding. And it was very convenient that there were fault lines in that area that could be "salted" (a metaphor) to cause a quake and great disturbance. Explosives in fault lines are an old trick. And it's easy to use superstition on ignorant people to make them think "God" is punishing them for not being perfect.


I gave the shortened version. The precise command was to "Run, and don't look back." She disobeyed, looking back...and became a pillar of salt.

Thank you for the answer. I knew the guy was an idiot sheeple...I just wanted to be sure.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by Alethea
 


For not being perfect? The people were so perverted there, they were doing every kind of thing imagineable... It wasn't for being imperfect, it was for being willfully corrupt.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by alienreality
reply to post by Alethea
 


For not being perfect? The people were so perverted there, they were doing every kind of thing imagineable... It wasn't for being imperfect, it was for being willfully corrupt.


That is the "spin" the religionists have put on the story. The scriptures do not really say that. Lot offered his daughters as hostages in order to allow the "angels" (military jihadists) safe passage and to allay suspicion.

Of course there is always a cover story when nations war over resources.
In our time, the "justification" is always some bogus story about "winning freedom". Dig deeper and you will find it's still about resources and economics....uranium, oil, etc. etc.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:48 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


Banging your head into a wailing wall brother!
That's all I see at least.
You could have all of the proof in the world to debunk the bible and there are still ignorant folks that will believe every single written word in the bible.
Oh yeah, then they practice the ones they find convenient.
Goddess I sure do ove my Lobster and Bacon!!!
Oooh bacon wrapped lobster.
I wonder if I could....
Anyway, drop it!
God is so powerful and the devil is so cunning, this is why we ask these questions...

Well this is the answer any religious fana...err person will give.
Live your life without regret and laugh at those who limit themselves, live and let die.
Peace to ya.


(Edit)
And closer to the main topic, people see jesus burned into their toast, or see a stain on their showers glass door that looks like the virgin mary.
Could a lump of salt grow to be similarly shaped like a human?
Sure!
edit on 24-1-2012 by g146541 because: to add



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 

ok...eek and gross... i just read the story. talk about for adults only


Lot's wife
any way my theory, and yeah im an ancient alien fan, anyway whatever they used to blow up the place caused her to burn up or whatever and all that was left was salts from her body, they didnt say how big the pillar was and maybe it was a pile of salts.

How much salt is in the human body

The human body contains many salts, of which sodium chloride (AKA common table salt) is the major one, making up around 0.4 per cent of the body's weight at a concentration pretty well equivalent to that in seawater. So a 50kg person would contain around 200g of sodium chloride - around 40 teaspoons. Since we lose salt whenever we sweat, it has to be continually replaced.


anyway he was a creepy sicko father.

love and harmony
Whateva



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by g146541
 


That's similar to my line of thinking, but I'd hate to assume I'm right. That's what has lead the church to power, and that's what has brought the government to this point in its own turn.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Whateva69
reply to post by Starchild23
 

ok...eek and gross... i just read the story. talk about for adults only


Lot's wife
any way my theory, and yeah im an ancient alien fan, anyway whatever they used to blow up the place caused her to burn up or whatever and all that was left was salts from her body, they didnt say how big the pillar was and maybe it was a pile of salts.

How much salt is in the human body

The human body contains many salts, of which sodium chloride (AKA common table salt) is the major one, making up around 0.4 per cent of the body's weight at a concentration pretty well equivalent to that in seawater. So a 50kg person would contain around 200g of sodium chloride - around 40 teaspoons. Since we lose salt whenever we sweat, it has to be continually replaced.


anyway he was a creepy sicko father.

love and harmony
Whateva



Your reaction amuses me
in any case, it's stated specifically that it was a PILLAR of salt, which implies a lot more than 200 grams. Still...it's been established that the only search result of the "pillar of salt" (and I would assume it to be popular enough that the most likely candidate would be the first in the list) was a boring old rock.

Case closed...for now. Discussion still welcome, however.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 


No no no,
I do not assume I am right, I assume that none of us are right and that who claim to be are self absorbed.
Like I said, live and let die, if the masses wanna get into a "my gawd has a bigger ding ding than your gawd" debate, let em.
They end up hating and get farther away from what a holy book should preach.
The one thing that I do know about my Goddess that I am for sure, is I truly do not know!
But I believe that all of this creation had to come from somewhere, and a big bang just seems unlikely to me.
I try to think of most things logically, even though I am a dumb animal no better than any other, I just got the opposable thumbs.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 12:12 PM
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I think this is another example of how mistranslation led to people thinking the bible is silly. In the way it's said to be translated , it is.

When lot´s wife is "turned to salt" it means she was made brittle, fickle. She was made dust. The Hebrew word also implies infertility, being made barren. It is considerable that the daughters of Lot chose to get their father drunk and have intercourse with him since "he was old" and they would not "know" another man so as to preserve their blood lineage. They got him drunk and impregnated themselves with his seed. Sick, but this would be necessary if Lot had not any sons or no longer had them due to the cities destruction.

Lots wife did not magically transform into salt. I personally believe she was turned to dust or made barren. Lifeless, by judgment. She didn't "look back" but was behind him. She was caught in the destruction.




וַתַּבֵּט אִשְׁתּוֹ, מֵאַחֲרָיו; וַתְּהִי, נְצִיב מֶלַח
26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.


www.mechon-mamre.org...


#4417 מֶּלַח melach [meh'-lakh]
From H4414; properly powder, that is, (specifically) salt (as easily pulverized and dissolved):—salt ([-pit]).

KJV 19:26 ¶ And his wife looked back, and she became a pillar of salt.
LXX 19:26 ¶ But his wifeº lookedº backºº from behindºº him,º and she becameº a pillarº of salt.º


lexiconcordance.com...

Here is an explination of the daughters being offered to the crowd that demanded his "strangers" come out to be known, not had sex with.No angel raping folks, sorry. To be known does not mean fornicate here.


A "Sodomite" in the Bible is simply a person who lives in Sodom, which included Lot and his family. The term "sodomite" in the King James Version of Deuteronomy 23:17 and I Kings 14:24 is an incorrect translation of the Hebrew word for "temple prostitute." (See the recent book by Mark D. Jordan: The Invention of Sodomy in Christian Theology. University of Chicago Press, 1997.)

No Jewish scholars before the first Christian century taught that the sin of Sodom was sexual. None of the biblical references to Sodom mention sexual sins but view Sodom as an example of injustice, lack of hospitality to strangers, idolatry and as a symbol for desolation and destruction. See Deuteronomy 29:22-28; 32:32; Ezekiel 16:49-50; Jeremiah 49:18; 50:41; Isaiah 13:19-22 and Matthew 10:14-15. In Jude 7, the term "strange flesh" is Greek hetero sarkos ("different flesh" and from which the word "heterosexual" comes) and refers to foreign idols or people. It is not homo ("the same") flesh or people. Sarkos is never used in the New Testament as a word for "sex."

The word "know" in Genesis 19:5 is Hebrew YADA. It is used 943 times in the Old Testament to "know" God, good and evil, the truth, the law, people, places, things, etc. It is a very flexible word, as are many Hebrew words. In Genesis 19:5, the word was used to express the request of the people of Sodom that Lot should bring out the strangers in his house so that they could know who they were. Sodom was a tiny fortress in the barren wasteland south of the Dead Sea. The only strangers that the people of Sodom ever saw were enemy tribes who wanted to destroy and take over their valuable fortress and the trade routes that it protected. Lot himself was an alien in their midst.

Lot's strange response to the request was to offer his young daughters to the men, an offer that seems to me to be far more reprehensible than any problem of sexual orientation. If the men were homosexual, why did Lot offer to give them his daughters? These hostile and violent people were heterosexual, and homosexual orientation had nothing to do with the incident.

Special note on YADA: The Hebrew word YADA "to know" is never used in the Old Testament to mean "to have sex with". People have been conditioned to think that "to know someone biblically" means to have sex. The use of YADA in Genesis 4:1-2 to say that Adam knew Eve and she conceived and gave birth to Cain is followed by saying that later she gave birth to his brother Abel without any reference to YADA. Why? Simply because YADA does not mean to have sex. It is a general term that describes many kinds of intimate relationships. I have studied all of the uses of YADA in the Old Testament, and my personal conclusion is that it never means what we mean by sexual intercourse. Just substitute a common slang expression for sexual intercourse instead of the word "know" in Genesis 4:1 and you will see how inappropriate the idea is. The Old Testament Hebrew writers never thought or wrote in those terms. The Bible never gives any details about sexual acts. The only clear Hebrew term for sexual acts is "to lie with," which is left without any further explanation.


www.otkenyer.hu...


edit on 24-1-2012 by casenately because: fix



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 12:27 PM
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Here are more examples that clarify the mistranslation of this verse from genesis. Look to the original wording when you see "magic" or nonsense



AC 2455. And she became a pillar of salt. That this signifies that all the good of truth was laid waste, is evident from the signification of a "pillar," and from the signification of "salt." In the original language a "pillar" is expressed by a word which signifies a standing still, not by one that means a pillar erected for worship or for a sign, or for a witness so that by the "pillar of salt" is here signified that it, namely, the truth signified by Lot’s wife, stood vastated (n. 2454). Truth is said to be vastated, or laid waste, when there is no longer any good in it, vastation itself being signified by "salt."


[2] As most things in the Word have a double sense, namely, the genuine sense and its opposite, so also has " salt;" in the genuine sense it signifies the affection of truth; in the opposite sense, the vastation of the affection of truth, that is, of good in truth. "Salt" signifies the affection of truth (Exod. 30:35; Lev. 2:13; Matt. 5:13; Mark 9:49, 50; Luke 14:34, 35); and it signifies the vastation of the affection of truth, which is evident from the following passages. In Moses:--



So she was not made into a "pilar" but made to stop or stand still. Die? She could not let go of the "wrong ways"
Spiritual death


The whole land shall be brimstone and salt, a burning; it shall not be sown, it shall not bear, neither shall any herb spring up therein like the overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboim (Deut. 29:23);

where "brimstone" denotes the vastation of good; and "salt" the vastation of truth: that the subject is vastation is evident from every particular.


He that maketh flesh his arm shall be like a bare shrub in the solitude, and shall not see when good cometh, but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, a salt land, and not inhabited (Jeremiah 17:5, 6);

where "parched places" denote vastated goods, and a "salt land" vastated truths.

[4] In David:--

Jehovah maketh rivers into a wilderness, and water springs into dry ground, a fruitful land into a salt one, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein (Ps. 107:33, 34);

a "fruitful land made into a salt one" denotes the vastation of good in truth. In Ezekiel:--

The miry places thereof and the marshes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given up to salt (Ezekiel 47:11);


SO, here we have a word translated that actually means to be laid waste, made into salt.
Like the word in genesis that denotes that the "earth was barren and void" is actually a word that means to be made barren by judgment. Hebrew is a very particular language that has sometimes over 70 meanings for what we call a single word.



to be " given up to salt" denotes being altogether vastated as to truth. As "salt" signified vastation, and "cities" the doctrinal things of truth (n. 402, 2268, 2428, 2451), in ancient times when cities were destroyed they were sown with salt, in order to prevent their being rebuilt (Judges 9:45). The words before us therefore denote the fourth state of that church which was represented by Lot, which state was that all truth was vastated as to good.




biblemeanings.info...



edit on 24-1-2012 by casenately because: edit



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 12:47 PM
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I just thought I would throw this in here for anyone interested in this subject. Great info
from the ancient Hebrew research center



www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:42 PM
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here is en example I am referring to where ONE word changes everything as far as meaning.

"was" is actually , had become. So in Genesis, we have a reference to an OLDER world that was laid waste or made void. Made so it wasnt before? Interesting huh. Me thinks so.

What was that older world? refer to Enoch, and its proper translation all you ancient alien hunters. Then you will see Zecharia Sitchin wasn't that off. or at least you´ll understand what he had to go through. He didn't just INVENT words. They were already there, he just used common sense to extrapolate their meaning.

Do you see now why wars were fought over the translation or version of the bible we use. It either explains ALL of human origin, or its about magic. You decide.




Webster's Revision of the KJB (WEB 1833)
— And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep: and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Darby's Translation (DBY 1890)
— And the earth was waste and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (EBR 1902)
— Now, the earth, had become waste and wild, and, darkness, was on the face of the roaring deep,—but, the Spirit of God, was brooding on the face of the waters.

Young's Literal Translation (YLT 1898)
— the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,


chatbible.com...


» H1961 «


#1961 הָיָה hayah [haw-yaw']

a primitive root [compare H1933]; TWOT - 491; v
—Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)

1) to be, become, come to pass, exist, happen, fall out
1a) (Qal)
1a1) -----
1a1a) to happen, fall out, occur, take place, come about,
come to pass
1a1b) to come about, come to pass
1a2) to come into being, become
1a2a) to arise, appear, come
1a2b) to become
1a2b1) to become
1a2b2) to become like
1a2b3) to be instituted, be established
1a3) to be
1a3a) to exist, be in existence
1a3b) to abide, remain, continue (with word of place or time)
1a3c) to stand, lie, be in, be at, be situated (with word
of locality)
1a3d) to accompany, be with
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to occur, come to pass, be done, be brought about
1b2) to be done, be finished, be gone
—Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):—beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.


lexiconcordance.com...


edit on 24-1-2012 by casenately because: fix



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by Starchild23
 


No no no,
I do not assume I am right, I assume that none of us are right and that who claim to be are self absorbed.
Like I said, live and let die, if the masses wanna get into a "my gawd has a bigger ding ding than your gawd" debate, let em.
They end up hating and get farther away from what a holy book should preach.
The one thing that I do know about my Goddess that I am for sure, is I truly do not know!
But I believe that all of this creation had to come from somewhere, and a big bang just seems unlikely to me.
I try to think of most things logically, even though I am a dumb animal no better than any other, I just got the opposable thumbs.



Might I be correct in guessing that you are wiccan or pagan?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by casenately
 


Why thank you!
I always enjoy the ACTUAL translations, rather than interpreted translations...they always make so much more sense!



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Starchild23
 





Salt is not as durable as rock



Salt is a rock and under the correct conditions will last forever. Well as long as it takes the atoms to break down....



posted on Jan, 29 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by purplemer
reply to post by Starchild23
 





Salt is not as durable as rock



Salt is a rock and under the correct conditions will last forever. Well as long as it takes the atoms to break down....


I beg to differ. Just as different combinations and structures among hydrogen and oxygen may result in water, ice, or mist, different composites of atomic matter can result in different types of rock.

Salt is one of those rocks that will wear away over time, given wind and rain. I can guarantee you lay a piece of salt in the middle of Israel, and 10 years later it will be gone.



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