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The Moral Deficit

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posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:10 PM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


Apparently, it is necessary for people to point out the obvious to people like you.




posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:20 PM
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reply to post by nightbringr
 


Love? Sexual deviance is not love. I have not commented one time on how I feel about two adult persons of the same sex who are actually in love with each other in a committed relationship. People keep trying to put words in my mouth. I said it used to be considered immoral.

You are correct an 8 year old child cannot consent, however it is common practice in other countries. What happens when it comes to a town near you? Also unborn children do not consent to having their lives cut short.

Your comment about beastiality is just sickening.

I have been married for 18 years. I do not think it is anyone's business what I do in my bedroom, thus I do not shout it from the roof tops, I have never been on a reality tv show and I don't go to work telling my bedroom stories. If it is really no ones business than people should keep it to themselves.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 




Killing is also a natural urge.




look up his "bomb in the brain" series for a more detailed examination of how violence is taught



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:27 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 

thanks your most humbleness for a pontificating lesson loool how patronising can one get? remember dont assume people need lessons



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


Morals are somthing each person decides for themselves. Leave it up to the individual to uphold their own moral fibre up to the standard which they wish and stop trying too impose your own morals on other people.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:35 PM
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reply to post by AmericanPitBull
 


This will sound rude, but we know where you people get your morals from. You get it from a book. In other words, you dont think about anything you just do what you have read from a book. Thats like having your personality implanted into your brain with a computer chip. There is absolutely no reason that you should believe in the things you do. The only reason you believe in any of it is because youre willing to believe in it. Nobody has any reason to give respect to the kind of mentality that would condone perpetuating uneducated opinions that arent supported with any kind of logic or evidence whatsoever. This might sound totally cruel - but your imaginary fairy tales dont have any right to trump another persons freedoms in the real world.

You keep your religion out of the law. This is a secular country. We dont like you but we deal with the fact that the majority of our neighbors labor under the delusions of a sky fairy watching over them 24/7 waiting for the day they die so that he can torment you for an eternity (if not by sending you to the fiery pits of hell then by having you strum a harp for all eternity in cloud city).



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by theBigToe
 



What is obvious to people like me, is that people like you do not know how to read. In the op I asked a question, what do you considered to be immoral? All you have done since coming into my thread is bash people. I have not quoted the bible one time in my thread and yet you keep going on and on about. Apparently you have some type of issue with the book, not me. You called me a racist bigot?? Racist! Really! Becasue I stated my opinion I am a racist bigot, you have got to be kidding me. You are trying to use intimidation to try to stop me from expressing myself and that isn't going to work on me buddy. Sorry.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:18 PM
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reply to post by theBigToe
 


one more thing that you said that isn't sitting well with me. "Some day the world will be persecuting everybody like you. I hope youre alive to see that day." You hope that I am alive to be mistreated? What a very cruel thing to say to someone. I do not agree with abortion, it has been stated to the point of ad nauseum in this thread, but I do not agree with abortion because I do believe in taking human life. I do not wish ill to the women having abortions, I do not want them to be mistreated or tortured. Life, to me, is a gift. You do not know anything about me, you do not know what kinds of turmoil are in my life. And yet you say that you hope that I live to be mistreated???? Good grief, you are the very reason that I created this thread. You are cruel. Maybe you should read the only other post that I have put on ATS and then get back with me.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by TiredofControlFreaks
 


For those who say that abortion is wrong or right, my only question is, then why in the first place get oneself into such a situation? WHY?

In this 21st century, we should have much more education than our cave dwelling ancestors to comprehend the consequences of our actions, so why go into such a situation in the first place?

We all came through the birth canal of a women. We all have mothers. Many of us do have sisters and even daughters. Have we lost respect for womanhood, that we are willing to put the women through such biological morality conumdrums that once the deed is done, the biological aspects of our body takes over natuaral control that only unnatural means can be used to stop this process?

The issue of abortion lays in the root of the problem. Why opt for the reproductive cycle if one has not the intention to follow through it.


edit on 24-1-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)

Pressing further from your comment (not so much as a disagreement).
Ah, the moral high ground again. When will we learn that the moral high ground is actually a cauldera waiting to explode the perverbial egg on our face?
I have often commented on this type of thinking by asking: "Did you have a vesctamy?" If you don't you are part of the problem and not the solution.
How about this: Why is it moral for a man to sew his wild oats when this persuit leads to unwanted pregnancies? Rubbers break, men get lazy or are more into what 'feels good' than what is actually right. So do you think that after all the time we've been on the planet this will change? Men still behave like they are exempt from this issue when it is more often than not the man boo hooing his blue balls or other such conning nonsence to get into some chick pant to look like or be "da man" than the usual fall back that the woman's just trying to 'trap' him.
Or better yet, how about the men out there that beat the women they get pregnant in hopes they spontaneously abort? Or better yet, how about the men that murder their wives and girlfriends because they got pregnant - like they did it all on their own?
And now let's probe further - let's say that no child was ever aborted or became a victim of bad laws (thinking pail babies of China and other places that impose the one child rule). Where will these children go after your crusade? Think they will just vanish? And then would it be fair to say there should be no right for the tax payers to complain when footing the bill for someone else's mistakes? Don't like welfare? It is also full of people who didn't mean to get pregnant in the first place. Or are you all of the opinion that they should die on the streets for their mistake? Is that really the scope of your idea of morality? Several trials of kids killing their babies reveal the mentality of this person was "at least I didn't have an abortion." So now we justify true murder of the innocence just because of someone's idea of the moral high ground? And that's moral?
Oh and if women keep their legs shut (even married ones regardless of the catch all - a woman's duty) and protect it with Smith and Wesson, what then? Do you really think men will stop there? No, they will fight for their supposed right to have sex regardless of the consequences.
There is egg salad in that cauldera you think is the moral high ground. So easy to do unto others then blame them for a mistake you helped make while you run like hell.
As for the OP, sometimes you need to look to self for these and other answers not new, more intrusive laws. Service to self is always the base of the problem.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:18 PM
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The fact is that morality is relative to the individual and is not universal as some may believe. To paraphrase Charles Bukowski; he pointed out the fact is that there is enough hatred, treachery and absurdity in the average human being to fuel an entire army on any given day. The best people at murder are the ones who profess against it, the best people at hate are the ones who profess love and the best at war are those who preach peace.

Believe it or not, this is humanity; what else do you expect from a civilisation that produced "2 girls 1 cup"?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:26 PM
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The Humanist Manifesto is based on a secular moral relativity (outside of a belief in God and absolute values). This is how people are able to rationalize certain behaviors which offend some and do not offend others.
The expression, "What goes around comes around" is an expression of the impersonal law of karma which dictates that whomever does an action will eventually be the recipient of same action.
So say in this life we ruthlessly murder someone, in a future time unkown to us but known by cosmic law, we will be required to experience such a thing so as to educate the soul.
Sound fair enough?
It's the Golden Rule isn't it.

As a side note, tthe teachings of Buddha are based on the desire of Prince Siddhartha to free mankind from the endless rounds of birth and rebirth by nonattachment and by withdrawing as much as possible from the karmic action.
Karma-yoga is the art of balancing one's karma through positive action and good works. (but according to Hindu tradition one must not be attached to the fruits of labor)



edit on 24-1-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-1-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:32 PM
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PLEASE listen op...

If you read a history book - seriously, just one, about any era - you'll realize that human beings have NEVER changed.

People have always been immoral, selfish, vapid, violent, and irresponsible. There are good people too, and there always have been those.

What golden age are you suggesting we used to exist in?

Was it the 50s when we had separate drinking fountains for blacks and whites?
Was it the 40s when America constructed Japanese internment camps?
Was it WWII when America nuked 146,000 civilians off the face of the earth in an act of war
Was it during slavery in America?
Was it before America when Columbus and Cortes and others arrived in the Western world to rape and pillage the natives and their cultures?

Seriously, at what point in time do you think human beings had any morals whatsoever? There have always been good, generous, caring people as well.

But the ignorant, selfish, and hateful have ALWAYS been here. Get used to it, they're not going anywhere
edit on 24-1-2012 by Hawking because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


I actually like the way that you think.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:36 PM
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The earliest memory I can remember is being held by my grandfather and somehow I got a hold of a pair of scissors, my grandmother reached out for me and I cut her hand. That simple, seemingly irrelevant memory has haunted me my entire life. It sparked something in me that hurt me so deep it took me years to comprehend it. It made me understand that when others feel pain, I also feel that pain and I am just as vulnerable as they are if not more.

To this day I hate myself for that single act, nothing I can ever do will ever make up for it, I have soiled my own integrity and innocence for all of my life. This feeling didn't come from some written law, it didn't come from any book or any complex idealism. It came from my own remorse and understanding of reality, it made me honest with myself and gave me a conviction to never again do something so utterly stupid.

That is what I call morals, they are self evident, you don't need anyone to tell you what they are if you truly understand the pain that all living things are susceptible too, even you. We are all guilty of this to varying extent, the only thing we can do is be honest with ourselves and hold ourselves to our own laws and principles. If you fail, it IS the end of the world, your an idiot just like me so try harder.

Then again, what happens to the people who can't do this? What happens to those who deserve to be punished or put to death? Does anyone really deserve this, what is the answer to morality and the people who have no concern of it? Evil seems necessary, we are all tainted and surrounded by it.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


I always figured the golden rule was more of a pre-emptive thing and no so much having to do with fate. Treat others how you would want them to treat you, not expect others to suffer the same as the suffering they have inflicted, life simply doesn't work that way. As romantic as it might sound, it is simply not true, some murderers get away with murder and die of natural causes and some thieves never get caught.
edit on 24-1-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:43 PM
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reply to post by theBigToe
 


No, it is not a secular society, as in no not everyone in society is secular. Perhaps you meant there is separation of Church and State. That would be a much more accurate statement.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:46 PM
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Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


I actually like the way that you think.



Yes, in this way, we simply override any accusations of not caring for anyone in particular, and the responsibility for one's own actions is always to that self. Contrarily, if society creates laws which the individual cannot separate from, it is a National karma rather than a personal one. Still, it seems an important thing for an individual to protest an immoral societal law so as not to take on the karma of that immoral thing.
edit on 24-1-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:51 PM
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I really don't know why this is so hard to understand.

From my original opening post:

What happens to us when the moral fiber collapses COMPLETELY? As in, when everyone is immoral or ammoral. Lacking morals completely or indifferent to the concept of right and wrong.

When people are allowed to do WHATEVER they want because they feel it is their RIGHT?

That was one of the opening questions in my post. I am familiar with history and I realize that immoral acts have been committed since the beginning of time...I am not self righteous, I have done immoral things in my life. Though I strive to be a good person and I do feel that I know right from wrong. I fear that the time will come, and soon, that people will either not know, or not care.

My parents taught me not to hate. Not to kill. Not to steal. Not to lie. To take care of my responsibilities. Do unto others.....



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:53 PM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


What happens when moral fiber collapses completely?

Then we go back to the dark ages, civilization collapses, chaos ensues. We are no better than animals fighting and killing each other to survive, the end of cooperation and society as we know it. No one trusts anyone.

Good answer to your question that really doesn't have an answer at all? It really depends on some particular persons definition and understanding on a bunch of different concepts, there is no final answer.
edit on 24-1-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:55 PM
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reply to post by RSF77
 


No, it is not a matter of expecting people to experience a bad fate. It is taking personal responsibility for one's actions by realizing the law of karma in action and impersonal. It becomes a matter of "enlightened self-interest" to not hurt another person. Therefore, there is wisdom in knowing that the karmic action of a person doing something to another is between those parties and the Universal Law.It is not about condemning others for their actions, although society has rules for regulating behavior, as it should.

And this is the true meaning of "an eye for an eye".

An interesting thing to note in the bible is that Jesus' action of restoring the roman soldier's ear which was cut off by his disciple was more for the benefit of the disciple than for the soldier, in Jesus stopped the inevitable law of karma to the disciple by restoring the ear to it's owner.
edit on 24-1-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-1-2012 by ThirdEyeofHorus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus
 


We are going to have to agree to disagree then, I don't believe in karma.

Sometimes things happen and people do bad things, some of these people never get what is coming to them, this is reality. Otherwise we would have no need for a judicial system, the universe would sort itself out, it doesn't do this. I think you are correct about self interest though, if everyone held strong to good principles and cared about the welfare of others we would all be in a much better world.

Eye for an eye seems like a good policy until everyone is blind. Also, I am an atheist.
edit on 24-1-2012 by RSF77 because: (no reason given)




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