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The Moral Deficit

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posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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After having participated in a thread from Paxnatus yesterday, I think it is a great time to discuss the moral deficit of our society. For those of you who do not know what morals are, and apparently there are quite a few:

Morals are a code of conduct.

Wikipedia: Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation among intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong). A moral code is a system of morality (for example, according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. The adjective moral is synonymous with "good" or "right." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.


Are there any morals left in our society? We have laws that allow women to kill their unborn children. We as a society, encourage sexually deviant behavior. Sexuality is exploited for monetary gain. The people in our country who are supposed to be held to a higher moral standard are quite possibly the biggest liars, cheaters and scammers around.

But the question begs answering: What happens to us when the moral fiber collapses completely?
When people are allowed to do whatever they want because they feel it is their right?

I often wonder if this is the reason for all of the doom and gloom threads. We can't find a way out of the mess that we have created so we are looking for some outside source to settle things for us.

So what say you ATS. Where do you see the biggest moral deficits in our society and what can be done, if anything to fix it?




posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


I guess a way of looking at it would be to consider what laws are in effect and being made which change the moral fabric of society.

What you agree with may be quite different from what the next person thinks regarding morality, and vice-verse.

I think you should be allowed to live at home, and pretty much do as you please, as long as you are not violating anyone else in any way morally, ethically, etc.

Overall in recent years there could be a moral decline around the USA.
What you think the problems are with the moral code of the USA specifically?
edit on 1/24/2012 by InFriNiTee because: totally changed my post


+14 more 
posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


The following is directed to the "generic you" and not the OP in particular.


Your morals are YOURS. You can't hold other people to your morals.

Morals can not be legislated. Each person has his or her own and should be free to live within their moral structure as long as they obey the laws of the land.

To many, abortion is not immoral. It's not for me to say whether it's immoral for YOU to have an abortion. It's a personal choice and if it's a problem with your God, then you two can deal with it at some point.

My morals are none of your business and you have NO right to try to legislate that others behave according to YOUR morals.

If you think abortion is "killing unborn children", then DON'T DO IT. But stay OUT of MY business and MY womb and don't call on big government to legislate how I behave just so you feel superior and in control.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


Aaaannnndddd this is my point exactly. You believe that you should be allowed whatever freedoms that make you happy. And I never mentioned God or religion in my OP. I also do not understand where all of the aggression is coming from. I asked a question in regards to where do YOU see moral deficits in our society.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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I dont know.. morals may be going down in some ways, but if you compare morals (as a whole) of modern "developed" society to others, less developed societes around the world, or god forbid, to rampant immorality present in the past, we are at a moral peak, no contest about that. People tend to idolize the past and denigrate the present. It helps them to avoid the feeling that they are in fact the lucky ones, and there is a long way to the bottom.

Unless you are one of those who consider sexual freedom or abortion etc. to be the epitome of immorality, in which case I can only shake my head in disagreement, as I dont get such thinking at all.
edit on 24/1/12 by Maslo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If you think abortion is "killing unborn children", then DON'T DO IT. But stay OUT of MY business and MY womb and don't call on big government to legislate how I behave just so you feel superior and in control.
In a thread about morals, you are a shining example of what is wrong. Morality is not relative. Good is good and evil is evil. There is a right and a wrong and murdering children is wrong. The fact that you cannot, or will not see this is indicative of the moral decay of our society.


+3 more 
posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:05 AM
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The biggest moral deficit is the lack of empathy. The second biggest moral deficit is the lack of (pretty much any) critical thinking. The third is the seeming inability of people to take two seconds to gauge the consequences of their actions.

The fourth biggest is the seeming inability of people to ignore petty little differences of opinion and concentrate on the big things at hand.

For example, instead of arguing over the big issues like how to control spending, how to reign in corruption, how to make competition more fair for small businesses, we instead argue over petty crap like abortion and gay marriage.
edit on 24-1-2012 by AnIntellectualRedneck because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:06 AM
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reply to post by newsoul
 
For centuries, the church/religion defined morality.
Society was built on the moral foundation that religion built for us.

Within the last century (or so) government has replaced religion. Laws have replaced religious edicts, and consensus has replaced morality.

If enough people "feel" that something is okay, then it becomes the new "morally" acceptable behaviour.

T'is why society with no true, concrete foundation will utterly fail.


edit on 24-1-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:14 AM
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Do not forget to consider the notion that if absolute morality exist, it may not be YOUR morality. What if true absolute god-given morality includes extensive sexual freedom and (at least early-term) abortions? There is no guarantee other societes or people in the past were any closer to the true absolute morality than we are. Thus it is a meaningless argument.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 



I think you all posted at the same time. So I will direct my response to beezzer. I have to agree with you on some levels, I do believe that the seperation of church and state did have a critical effect on our morals in general. I don't know if it is actually due to taking God out of school or simply because they took Good out of school. I remember in school we would have a phrase of the day " do unto others" kinds of things. We said the Pledge of Allegiance, we were taught to respect people regardless of their background or beliefs. I can tell you that children in school now, have very little time for moral lessons. WHY? Because the teachers are too busy trying to discipline children with no home life. The last thing a teacher wants to do today is offend someone.


+1 more 
posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:17 AM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Originally posted by newsoul

After having participated in a thread from Paxnatus yesterday, I think it is a great time to discuss the moral deficit of our society. For those of you who do not know what morals are, and apparently there are quite a few:


Double think. There is no morality other than what you believe is right or wrong. Societal morality is an exercise in limiting an individual's rights to freedom.



Are there any morals left in our society? We have laws that allow women to kill their unborn children. We as a society, encourage sexually deviant behavior. Sexuality is exploited for monetary gain. The people in our country who are supposed to be held to a higher moral standard are quite possibly the biggest liars, cheaters and scammers around.


There were no morals until religion came around and decided to make you think differently, or more accurately guilty about everything that wasn't or was written in those books of theirs.



But the question begs answering: What happens to us when the moral fiber collapses completely?
When people are allowed to do whatever they want because they feel it is their right?


Yes, people are allowed to do what they please, as it is their right. People should only be held accountable for the the following 3 offenses.

Killing or injuring somebody.
Causing somebody significant loss.
Being dishonest in your contracts.

Otherwise, who is anybody to try and tell you what you can and cannot do? If you aren't infringing on other people's rights, then they have no business even talking to you about it.

What can be done to fix it, is to stop expecting people to follow the same "rules" that the government, monarchies and your "masters" have put in place for you. The problem today is that we've limited our freedom, we've made pieces of paper that basically tell us what we can do.

What we should have is a piece of paper that is so broad in the definition of what you CAN do, and then about 1000 pages of things that say, you can't change these rights even if this specific happens etc..

It's time to stop letting other people govern us, and govern ourselves. Morality is a tool used by your jailers to squeeze more obediance out of you.

~Tenth

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:19 AM
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Originally posted by newsoul

After having participated in a thread from Paxnatus yesterday, I think it is a great time to discuss the moral deficit of our society. For those of you who do not know what morals are, and apparently there are quite a few:

Morals are a code of conduct.

Wikipedia: Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation among intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong). A moral code is a system of morality (for example, according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. The adjective moral is synonymous with "good" or "right." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.


Are there any morals left in our society? We have laws that allow women to kill their unborn children. We as a society, encourage sexually deviant behavior. Sexuality is exploited for monetary gain. The people in our country who are supposed to be held to a higher moral standard are quite possibly the biggest liars, cheaters and scammers around.

But the question begs answering: What happens to us when the moral fiber collapses completely?
When people are allowed to do whatever they want because they feel it is their right?

I often wonder if this is the reason for all of the doom and gloom threads. We can't find a way out of the mess that we have created so we are looking for some outside source to settle things for us.

So what say you ATS. Where do you see the biggest moral deficits in our society and what can be done, if anything to fix it?


Morals, by nature, are not a communal expression of man, although we are told that they are,
the idea is a false premise bound to let OP down time and time again... What I do has very
little to do with what you do, there is no physical link or relation between the two. At the same time,
our moral code is almost always selective and flawed.

I know more than a few people here who would do anything to save a fetus from destruction,
but would also do anything to destroy the societal safety net that would have helped provide
for that same life.

"Save the baby, but who cares if the family cannot feed it, cloth it, love it, diaper it or nurture it,
as long as it is breathing, yea!"


So with one hand giveth, while the other hand plots to pull the rug out in the name of morality.

In this one example you can spawn a plethora of similar examples that stress "morality", while
falling down on the job once the curtain falls for a few seconds, essentially dropping the baby once
the show is over and the crowd clears out...



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by newsoul

After having participated in a thread from Paxnatus yesterday, I think it is a great time to discuss the moral deficit of our society. For those of you who do not know what morals are, and apparently there are quite a few:

Morals are a code of conduct.

Wikipedia: Morality (from the Latin moralitas "manner, character, proper behavior") is the differentiation among intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are good (or right) and bad (or wrong). A moral code is a system of morality (for example, according to a particular philosophy, religion, culture, etc.) and a moral is any one practice or teaching within a moral code. The adjective moral is synonymous with "good" or "right." Immorality is the active opposition to morality (i.e. good or right), while amorality is variously defined as an unawareness of, indifference toward, or disbelief in any set of moral standards or principles.


Are there any morals left in our society? We have laws that allow women to kill their unborn children. We as a society, encourage sexually deviant behavior. Sexuality is exploited for monetary gain. The people in our country who are supposed to be held to a higher moral standard are quite possibly the biggest liars, cheaters and scammers around.

But the question begs answering: What happens to us when the moral fiber collapses completely?
When people are allowed to do whatever they want because they feel it is their right?

I often wonder if this is the reason for all of the doom and gloom threads. We can't find a way out of the mess that we have created so we are looking for some outside source to settle things for us.

So what say you ATS. Where do you see the biggest moral deficits in our society and what can be done, if anything to fix it?


it's probably the single answer to most of our society's short comings. people, as a percentage, seem to be caring less and less about others and focusing more on just themselves. this can only end in a bad way.

people need to begin again to recognize their own short comings and work towards caring about themselves and their fellow man. you know the saying i believe by Gandhi , if you want to change the world, start with yourself. if we as a society really began caring about each other we could achieve a great existence, instead of surviving like we do. we live together separately, what a shame that is.

we see people doing wrong but instead of wanting to help them do better we chastise them and fill up prisons with them, all the while committing the same level of wrongs, that we put them in there for. make more laws to remove liberty and trust from within, is what we do, instead of caring about ourselves as a whole because like it or not, we are all in this together and only remain as strong as our weakest link.

let love replace all the hate, until we can all work towards this goal, we have little hope of surviving. no amount of bullying, laws, wars, corruption or money printing, will fix this.

if you want to change the world start with yourself, that's where it begins.
edit on 24-1-2012 by LittleBlackEagle because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


Morality is subjective. I (and the vast majority of people) find it morally reprehensible that people even consider trying to tell women what they can or can't do with their own bodies or call a person's sexuality "deviant" or "wrong".



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:20 AM
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reply to post by newsoul
 


First a philosophical lesson: Ethics is the study or discussion of Morals as a whole. Morals specifically pertains only to certain moral outlines of specific individuals or groups of individuals. That is to say .. it is not possible for there to be a moral code for the entire United States on any specific issue. You can discuss the Ethical Views of certain subjects, say abortion, but the Morals of abortion will vary depending on the individual perception of each individual you talk to.

Abortion is morally wrong to you, it violates your principles. To other people not allowing abortion is morally wrong and a reprehensible act, as their moral outline of the specific subject is a matter of personal choice with ones own body. Two conflicting moral alignments, yet both are correct.

And thus we are now discussing Ethics.

But regardless, whether talking about specific morals or the study of ethical behavior as perceived by social norms, you'd first have to define a very broad social norm that all people adhere to in order to say why a specific moral is specifically ethical to all of society. Elsewise nothing can be considering immoral or unethical as it's based on personal perception.



We have laws that allow women to kill their unborn children.


Yeah that sucks. I don't view it really as a moral issue however. Oh no .. now we have different morals talking about right and wrong morals! So confusing!



We as a society, encourage sexually deviant behavior.


"We" is inclusive to us all .. I don't "encourage" any form of sexuality .. I suppose you're talking about homosexuality.. though I have to say I find it immoral to judge another persons sexual preferences......



Sexuality is exploited for monetary gain.


Since the dawn of time.



The people in our country who are supposed to be held to a higher moral standard are quite possibly the biggest liars, cheaters and scammers around.


Liars, thieves and whores. Aristotle told us Democracy in the long term was impossible for this very reason.



What happens to us when the moral fiber collapses completely?


None of your collective morals violates my ethical perception of a well rounded society. I find I'm more intolerable to people who talk on cell phones in front of others, or kids that don't hold doors for those behind them, say please and thank you.. common courtesy .. I find the lacking of that to be far more important than what John and Steve do in their bedroom down the street.



So what say you ATS.


I say my principle Ethical view on morality is not to push your morals onto other peoples morals.

It's ethically wrong.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:22 AM
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So what say you ATS. Where do you see the biggest moral deficits in our society and what can be done, if anything to fix it?


Good thread Kentucky. (You're in the bluegrass, you're Kentucky to me now
)

The first thing you don't want to do is confuse the lack of morality in certain laws with the average American citizen. Laws are made by politicians who are influenced by other people whom the politicians don't necessarily represent. Like lobbyists for example. This is why, IMO, many of the laws on the books don't totally represent the American public and they shed a very distracting light on us. A light that makes many people think that is what America is all about. Mostly, it's not. It's what the politicians, lobbyists and special interest groups are all about.

Secondly, you are right though that people seem to be more "loose" with their morals. Moreso than in the past. But don't make the mistake of thinking that everyone has a broken moral compass.There are still a few of us left who know where true north is and we seem to gravitate towards each other. Like magnets if you will. We don't feel the need to do whatever we want simply because we have the choices to do whatever we want. We're stronger than that. We're not the type to go around the rules because we feel that they're going to change later on anyway. There are a few among who would want to try
because we get impatient and think that certain rules are holding us back, but the stronger among us gently rein people like that back in and remind them that in order to get what you need, you still have to play by the rules. Or even use them to your advantage. I think that may very well be the main difference between people who have morals and people who don't. Patience.

And lastly, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with the gloom and doom threads. People don't have the patience to think problems though and get them resolved, so they want something catastrophic to happen so the slate can be wiped clean. People just need to calm down, sit back and realize that good will always win over what isn't. You may not see it as it happens because it isn't publicized as heavy as the bad things, the good things aren't as "in your face" as the bad things, but there are good things happening around us everyday. There are people with high moral standards and they stand their ground. If you find one, do everything you can can to be close to them and stay on their good side by repecting them and listening to them. They're not nearly as stupid or naive as you may think.

Trust me.

youtu.be...





posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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Playing the Devil's Advocate here...

When I sit back and think about it are the morals worse now in the US than they were 100 or 200 years ago? Slavery? Wild West outlaws? In this day and age we hear every single bad story on the news whereas 50+ years ago bad things most likely still happened but we were unaware of them as a society. Also the population is a couple hundred million more now so even if the percentage of people considered "immoral" stayed the same the actual number of people would have increased greatly.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by newsoul
 
For centuries, the church/religion defined morality.
Society was built on the moral foundation that religion built for us.

Within the last century (or so) government has replaced religion. Laws have replaced religious edicts, and consensus has replaced morality.

If enough people "feel" that something is okay, then it becomes the new "morally" acceptable behaviour.

T'is why society with no true, concrete foundation will utterly fail.


edit on 24-1-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)


At the same time, society had much worse conditions for the majority of time you are
praising in hindsight. So of the most "moral" times in history are marred with a tremendous
amount of brutality and violence. Unfortunately religion is almost ALWAYS used as tool to
commit unmoral acts to punish other unmoral acts. Look at Islamic societies that have not
separated church and state with consensual law. Burning and disemboweling was a very common
practice in Christian society for more than 3/4 of it's history, fact.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:27 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 


Unfortunately I do not know how to link articles, but I am sure you can find plenty if you search the internet. There have been countless incidence where a homeowner was robbed only to be sued by the burglar, and the buglar actually won the case. One particular incident that I can recall was of a burglar falling into a sunken living room and getting injured, he sued the homeowner and won. Does this seem moral to you? If you break into my home and I shoot you, should you have a right to sue me?

Just because someone claims it is their RIGHT, doesn't make it right.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:28 AM
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This title is misleading. I wouldn't have clicked on it had I known it was someone's personal tirade against abortion. This should be in rant.



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