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EU financial dictatorship agreed to by EU ministers last night

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posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 08:37 AM
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Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by kwakakev
 


You are saying that this economy model works?
Ponzi scheme actually works?
And people should not be asked about that, because it is so sensitive?
Come on, reading sentences from text books here?


Is a roof still over your head, food on the table and an internet connection any value to you? Have you lived in a country where money mean nothing? Do you realise what will happen when the trucks stop driving?

The economy is a mess, very few reasonable people realise things are sweet. What do we do? Keep the status quo to keep things breathing and take things one step at a time. If you have any better options then please share, otherwise get up to speed with the forces at play.




posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by ColCurious
 




Yeah it's similar to federal government except its unconstitutional and undemocratic or in other words criminal. That's why we call it dictatorial.


I do not care what you call it, I call it the situation. I do not agree with a lot in how the EU was formed, but much is kept from me and most important, they got over the line. NATO gives it kudos and if you want to take that on, good luck as you are going to need it.



Originally posted by kwakakev
For an economy to work everyone needs to play by the same rules, it is also complex and sensitive stuff with mistakes costly.

This is true and the main reason why the EZ-project was doomed from the start but that's no justification to # on Constitutions and the souvereignty of millions across Europe.


I have not heard of the EZ project, any links? I am not #ing on anyone, just calling it as I see it. There are issues that need to be confronted on the global, national, state, local, family and individual stage. I am supportive of any efforts to address problems on the appropriate level. Culture is complex, deny my ignorance.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by kwakakev
 


You know that the debt in the EU is recycling making harder for the countries that are already bankrupted (aka in trouble) to get out of that debt.

You do understand that is not ease of that debt but the re re hypothecation of debt over and over while using the citizens hard work weath as collateral.

Re hypothecation is not a solution of debt but adding new debt to support the already growing debt.

This will only end on a collapse of the EU zone eventually not the end of the EU debt, you can no pay debt with more debt.


Do you realise that the economy is based on perception, money is meaningless apart form the value that the public puts on it? Do you realise that there is trillions in nonsense and waste?

Yes I realise that debt is a problem. I very much like the Muslim approach to debt and would like to think that the best from the different cultures can combine to provide the best solutions. But we need some common sense to get there.

The toxic bubble is still floating around, what are we to do?



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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The ESM is a permanent emergency fund created to help out Eurozone countries that end up in dire straits. It replaces the European Financial Stability Fund. The ESM will become operational in July of this year, earlier than planned. The Mechanism will have 500 billion euros at its disposal. European Council President Herman Van Rompuy told reporters that the EU would reconsider this figure at its summit in March. Countries signing up to the ESM should commit 90% of its startup capital by July.


It does indeed look like it's done. Notice the smoke and mirrors around the Belgian economy?

www.deredactie.be...
ed it on 25-1-2012 by EarthChilde because: forgot the link




posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 09:35 AM
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reply to post by EarthChilde
 


Is Belgium the government that has been put on hold lately?



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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reply to post by kwakakev
 


They are being 'monitored' to ensure fiscal responsibility. The claim from the E.U. is that they have the biggest housing bubble with a 68% increase in real estate in the last decade. There is an article on the same Belgian site that refers to the fact the Belgians have more wealth by almost 20% in that same decade, after one takes inflation and real estate out. Interesting that a country seemingly doing well is under such scrutiny. I think the disinformation battle is being waged on that count.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 10:13 AM
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"Although many other areas of prophecy can help you
understand what will happen at the time of this Fifth Trumpet,
only the conclusions from the revelation of those prophecies will
be covered in this chapter. More of this information is covered in
The Prophesied End-Time.

Satan’s release from restraint will move him to exercise
greater power and influence over the unity of Europe. Satan has
exercised his influence and power to deceive and create havoc
during every revival of the Holy Roman Empire. He will stir up
ten nations in Europe who will take control of all power over the
European Union. Only those ten nations will agree to lend their
power as one.

Germany will once again be the principal driving force behind
a united Europe. As in the sixth revival of the Holy Roman
Empire, which led into World War II, this seventh prophetic and
last revival will lead into a full blown World War III. And, like a
scorpion that strikes quickly without notice, a new United States
of Europe will swiftly exercise great military power that it
already has in its possession under the cloak of NATO. This will
occur at a very specific moment in time. This new European
power, which would eventually move to accomplish the same
thing, will move forward more quickly due to the influence of
Satan and his army of demons.

The account of this next revelation will infuriate many people,
nevertheless, it is true. At the same time that Satan will have
powerful influence over ten nations in Europe, he will wield
great deceptive power over the Roman Catholic Church. For
centuries, the Catholic Church has been led into deception
through Satan’s power; but he will exercise even greater direct
control at this final end-time. Although there will be a distorted
bond between this new Europe and the Catholic Church, that
bond will become deeply stressed as these two struggle for
dominant power, one against the other.

Indeed, God will make it clear who is the true power over both
the revived Europe and the Catholic Church—it is Satan:

And they had a king over them who is the angel of the
bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is
Abaddon [destruction], but in the Greek tongue he has the
name Apollyon [destroyer]. (Revelation 9:11)"

2008 - God's Final Witness, by Ronald Weinland published 2006.

This event has laid the foundation of the Beast governemnt's rise to power.

If you have eyes to see and ears to hear....

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Thank you for the heads up, but now I feel arrogant.

I see Satan as free will, I know it is problematic but this is how it is. Are we to all be robots or can we have civilised discussions about reality?

I agree the catholic church needs some good head kicking, but not in a physical sense. There is a reason for this culture and some disconnection along the way. What is/was the point?



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 10:54 AM
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Originally posted by EarthChilde
reply to post by kwakakev
 


They are being 'monitored' to ensure fiscal responsibility. The claim from the E.U. is that they have the biggest housing bubble with a 68% increase in real estate in the last decade. There is an article on the same Belgian site that refers to the fact the Belgians have more wealth by almost 20% in that same decade, after one takes inflation and real estate out. Interesting that a country seemingly doing well is under such scrutiny. I think the disinformation battle is being waged on that count.


Wow, very revealing on how a public values a stable government. A reinvestigation into 9/11 does seam plausible.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by kwakakev
 


I love civilized disscusions about reality!

About your point with regards to free will, free will is a gift given to all of the creation of God designed with spiritual composition, which means they are mind entities that can think, plan ahead, remember and choose (i.e. angelic beings, and mandkind). All other creatures were designed to fuction off of instict (pre-designed cause and effect coding in the dna of the creature). God desries His family (Elohim) to be free moral agents (have free will) in order to have endless creativity with billions of individual minds all working for each other in perfection and beauty.

The problem with free will, is that the entity can choose selfishness. God's laws are not desinged to limit you, as physical beings it can appear that way on the surface (no one likes being told something they want is something that is not good for them). But God's laws are created to teach free moral agents which choices in life lead to happyness, joy and fullness in life, and which choices lead to pain, suffering and death. Ultimately the choice is always up to the entity, whether spirit being (angel) or physical being (mankind).

Satan used his free will to choose to live a way of life that opposes what God desires for His creation. Mankind through Adam and Eve made the same choice. There are only 2 ways of life to live; the way of give (God's way as taught through His commandments); and the way of get (selfish way as is our nature by design). Through a lifetime of repentance (changing the way you think, from selfish to selfless) your nature is changed from selfish and inward to selfless and outward. Only then can you become Elohim and enter into the family of God as His child forever.

Granted this was off topic, so I appoligise to the OP.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
The toxic bubble is still floating around, what are we to do?


That is the question that the powers in charge of the global mess do not want the people to ask and answer.

Still the solution to debt is not adding or creating more debt, that has never been a way to go.

Eventually the bubble will burst and we the people will be picking the pieces to create yet another crisis, that is what we are good at it.

And yes I am very aware that money is meaningless, just pretty numbers on Wall Street sheets to keep the population and investors happy.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


I do not see your discussion as off topic until some reasoned statement can slam the EU position. So we are back to service to self or others? I do consider the mammal as a hybrid approach to this dilemma with the organised response of the insects (corporate), and self determinate response of the reptiles (individual) finding some common ground. Ethics and team work make them strong. Corruption does highlight where the flags need to go. But are they smart enough?

With all the pain around the world I do not see that God has a clue where it is going, just trying and looking for what works. I do agree with your aspects on learning but the issues of choice are not that clear cut. We are programmed to survive with no clear targets on sustainability. If the line is to be drawn on eugenics is it to be by some freaked out public servants in the dark or by some peer journals in the open. China has tried to confront such an issue in the open with its 'one child policy'. Yes it it a hard subject with a lot of pain, but it is on the table. Give me a reasonable argument or give me death. One way or another the Earth will find a sustainable balance once again.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by kwakakev
 


I greatly enjoy your manner of thinking, thank you.

You are correct in your observations of the animal kingdom and the fact that natural instict expressed in the animal world varies dramatically and all by perfect design, each type you described (reptile, insect etc.) serves as an architype of human nature and interaction. We can learn much of our own nature by observing the instictual design of the creation. That was purposed from the begining.

"with all the pain in the world I am not sure God has a clue about where it is going"

God knew the end before the first moment of creation. God created the angels and mankind as free moral agents by design. God knew what choices would be made based on the natual selfish nature of free choice. Evil is needed to forge Good. God created both for a great purpose. That is a posting all to itself.


What God is doing this year is saving mankind from self annialation. He knows exactly how this is going to end, and has known for untold billions of years.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by marg6043
 



Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by kwakakev
The toxic bubble is still floating around, what are we to do?


That is the question that the powers in charge of the global mess do not want the people to ask and answer.


I am sure than no one want to deal with a lot of sidetracking and divergent issues on this matter, but I do expect many people will remain open to any ideas and suggestions. Where exactly is the line between corruption and social harmony to be drawn? If a policeman is to get a $300- bribe for a traffic infringement is that reasonable for the transgression? If a company can spend so many millions on lobbying do they have a right to express their corporate ideas? When the concept of limited liability is accepted in the courts are the repercussions acceptable?

As for the toxic bubbles, the first step in fixing any problem is to identify it, warts and all.



Still the solution to debt is not adding or creating more debt, that has never been a way to go.


I do agree with this position and value the Muslim culture on this issues with debt being about giving people a chance to step up, not a chance to capitalise on an unfortunate situation. Unfortunately with tensions building in
Iran it is making such economic attitudes difficult to achieve. The reality of the situation with government bond yields is that things will never add up, but perpetuate through tradition.

At the core, are we really more productive through pressure or inspiration?




And yes I am very aware that money is meaningless...


The value that the public puts on it is not, I hope you never have to experience what it means when the public call is meaningless as well, but it does happen.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


When reviewing some experiments on antimatter you may have a point, but not yet convinced on the end game. I consider God is just exploring options with good and evil some subjective qualifications along the way. With the fact that the best plans can still fall apart, it is an indication that there are no clear answers. We must make are own way the best we can as I believe the future is a combination of every things input.

I am not sure of the reason for existence, but if god already had the answers it does somewhat diminish our need and operation for being here. The simplicity of how it all ends is pretty standard with death, the technicalities of what is achieved and evolves along the way is quite a different story and quest.

Maybe you are right in that all that exists is known, but until you can tell me all that I will be doing tomorrow I am not on side and just taking things one step at a time..



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev

Originally posted by DangerDeath
reply to post by kwakakev
 


You are saying that this economy model works?
Ponzi scheme actually works?
And people should not be asked about that, because it is so sensitive?
Come on, reading sentences from text books here?


Is a roof still over your head, food on the table and an internet connection any value to you? Have you lived in a country where money mean nothing? Do you realise what will happen when the trucks stop driving?

The economy is a mess, very few reasonable people realise things are sweet. What do we do? Keep the status quo to keep things breathing and take things one step at a time. If you have any better options then please share, otherwise get up to speed with the forces at play.



Frankly, I feel like a Jew promised a bath and eternal rest (with my golden teeth pulled out)...

The existing "economy" is nothing but parasitic system trying to "survive" and "hope", like always in history, plays the key role in enslaving and pacifying people.

You have to understand that all ideas are by now exhausted and this is not going to end well. People who are in charge by their own authoritarian decision are going to just squeeze more and more until there is no air left on this poor planet.



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
reply to post by ElohimJD
 


When reviewing some experiments on antimatter you may have a point, but not yet convinced on the end game. I consider God is just exploring options with good and evil some subjective qualifications along the way. With the fact that the best plans can still fall apart, it is an indication that there are no clear answers. We must make are own way the best we can as I believe the future is a combination of every things input.

I am not sure of the reason for existence, but if god already had the answers it does somewhat diminish our need and operation for being here. The simplicity of how it all ends is pretty standard with death, the technicalities of what is achieved and evolves along the way is quite a different story and quest.

Maybe you are right in that all that exists is known, but until you can tell me all that I will be doing tomorrow I am not on side and just taking things one step at a time..


Fair and sound logic. Thank you for the conversational exchange.


God Bless,



posted on Jan, 25 2012 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by kwakakev
I have not heard of the EZ project, any links?

That would be the Euro Zone. The monetary union with a single currency for 17 of the 27 member states of the EU.
The Idea of the European Union as a political confederation is a different story.

I have no problem with political cooperation on EU or even global scale to face problems appropriately, or with economic treaties with our neighbours.

I do have problems when non-elected technocrats decide over fiscal policies, change laws and appoint representatives for the people... without any authority, violating constitutional law and ignoring our national sovereignty.
edit on 25-1-2012 by ColCurious because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 12:38 AM
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reply to post by DangerDeath
 




Frankly, I feel like a Jew promised a bath and eternal rest (with my golden teeth pulled out)... The existing "economy" is nothing but parasitic system trying to "survive" and "hope", like always in history, plays the key role in enslaving and pacifying people. You have to understand that all ideas are by now exhausted and this is not going to end well. People who are in charge by their own authoritarian decision are going to just squeeze more and more until there is no air left on this poor planet.


While your attitude does come across as defeated, I do agree with the basic premise of your ideas. The role of money is to balance the forces of supply and demand. Money helps achieve this social organisation by managing resources. The survivability and growth with civilisation is a testament to this. The concerns of abuse, corruption, mismanagement and conflicts of authoritarian control are very real and part of the environment.

I disagree that 'all ideas are by now exhausted'. There is not just one specific problem, but lots of them. There are a lot of deep and complex issues going on and one way or another the Earth will sort it out. I hope we can be smart enough to not learn too many the hard way. As for things not ending well, death can be a slow and painful process at times, this is the reality we have.



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 01:06 AM
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reply to post by ColCurious
 


Thanks for the clarification on EZ.



I do have problems when non-elected technocrats decide over fiscal policies, change laws and appoint representatives for the people... without any authority, violating constitutional law and ignoring our national sovereignty.


Lots of debate like this when the EU was being formed, but it still passed and has a governance structure more akin to a corporation than a government. Any changes in its constitution is at the boards discretion. While this hierarchy has its problems, it also has a proven track record in getting things done.

I do not see any problems here with the establishment of the ESM. As always the devil is in the detail, but something needs to be done to help stabilise and get things adding up correctly again. I would be more concerned if the EU done an Obama and just put these issues to one one side. Maybe this is really what is happening, but seams unlikely with a strengthening of powers with the treaty upgrade. Good luck to the ESM in what they do and hopefully they sort out more problems than they create.



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