reply to post by casenately
Hi Casenately –
You’re very welcome !!
(I’m always supportive of honest ‘investigative minds’ on ATS threads) –
Hopefully you have now finished reading the comments of AMADEUS on her ‘ATS Virgin Birth’ Mamzer Discussion – she had posted more info (in
2003/2004) on a wide variety of ATS religious discussions that ‘go against the grain’ of the ‘mindless Bible believing sheeple’ in the
A good idea would be for any thinking person to do an ATS search on ‘AMADEUS’ to find her other discussions from say 2003/4– so they can piece
together their own large library of ‘scholarly’ hard information – way above the ignorant (read: ‘un-informed’) rubbish that passes for
‘fact’ all too often allowed to be posted on ATS Conspiracies in Religions threads over the years.
To sum up AMADEUS’ points ref the Bastardy of ‘Iesous’ ATS thread – then, in sommo –
l. The fake ‘midrashic’ (i.e. haggadic = legendary) 14-set genealogy of ‘Iesous’ in the 1st canonical Greek gospel ‘according to Matthew’
(whoever he was) skips over a number of Judaean kings (who reigned between c. 680 BCE and 621 BCE) in order to keep his fake sets of 14 going (D-V-D =
i.e. 4 + 6 + 4 = the gemmatrial number for the Messiah based on the ‘number’ for the name ‘David’) –
Yet ‘Matthew’ adds FIVE whorish (sexually compromised) women to the set (odd for a genealogy for the Messiah) including Rachab the Harlot, Tamar
(raped by her brother Yehudah), Ruth (who threw herself sexually at her late husband’s cousin Boaz, then lived (possibly as a lesbian?) with Naomi
her mother in law) , then there’s the promiscuous Jebusite princess Bath-Shebiti (‘Bath-sheba’ lit. ‘daughter of the 7’ i.e. gods) who
married to Uriah the Hittite commited Adultery with ‘David’ to produce the (illegitimate) clan chieftan Jedediah (i.e. ‘Sholomon’, lit.
‘peaceful’) – then Miryam of Galilee, the 5th in a long line of whores….or as AMADEUS asks (quoting C.K. Barrett) ‘what exactly was
‘Matthew’ trying to tell us about her character?’
2. The so-called ‘Magnificat’ poem of ‘Mary’ in the 3rd canonical council approved Greek gospel (‘according to Luke’ whoever he was)
includes phrases like ‘blessed be YHWH, who has looked favourably upon the ‘gross-defilement’ of his handmaiden…’ –
Now if Miryam of Galilee was an old woman at the time, post menopausal, her ‘gross-defilement’ i.e. ‘sexual humiliation’ would naturally (for
a middle eastern woman of the time) be barreness (=biological inability to produce ‘sons’)) – but since she was supposed to be young at the
time, the ‘gross defilement ’ (in its CONTEXT) that ‘Luke’ mentions in his Greek (‘TAPEINWSIN’) can only mean RAPE (or possibly
‘seduction’ i.e. date-rape).
3. The weird bastardy (i.e. MAMZER) echoes in the 4th council approved Greek Canonical Gospel ‘according to John’ whoever he was) about ‘WE (in
the Greek intensive) were NOT born of fornication:
John 8:41 “WE (in the Greek intensive) know who OUR father is !’
(the Greek intensive for WE in this pejorative sneer could be better rendered into modern English as something like ‘At least WE ourselves know who
OUR OWN Father is…”) – which carries a kind of double-entendre underneath it.
At any rate the ‘sneer’ (C. K. Barrett) seems to indicate that there was some kind of bastardy insult hurling going on in the scene – although
admittedly, these are not recorded historical literal word for word notes being taken here – and the pejorative language (being hurled at R.
Yehoshua’s parentage may well be more general against all Galileans whom the Judaeans (at least in the 4th ‘gospel’ !) apparently equated with
“Sammaritans” (i.e. half-breeds) e.g. John 9:34
‘You were steeped in defilement from the day of your sinful birth (i.e. bastardy), and do you dare to teach US? Then they threw him out of the
John 8:48 ‘Are we not absolutely right in labeling you a Samaritan, and one possessed of Belial?’
4. The rough Hebrew idea of a MAMZER (i.e. bastard or ‘one born of illicit union’) could mean a legitimate child who was conceived during
menstruation, or one conceived out of wedlock, or could refer to two tribal blood lines illegally ‘mingling’ such as a member of the
‘priestly’ tribe of LEVI ‘sexually squeezing’ (‘to form one bone’ with) a member of e.g. the tribe of JUDAH – the birth legally timed
within marriage or not…
So one does NOT really know what ‘kind’ of MAMZER is meant, although the Talmud mentions c. 400 CE that ‘he who must never be named’ (i.e.
Yeshu) was conceived during the time of menstrual uncleanliness as being the reason why he was popularly known as a MAMZER (‘born of illicit
union’ i.e. a bastard).
The large question of course is : Are all the MAMZER accusations in the gospels the REASON why the virgin birth stories were concocted