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Jesus, the members only Club, only members allowed

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posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 

. . . Jesus Christ, who's great work was for one and all, whether we believe in him or not . . .


". . . so that whoever believes shall not perish . . ."

The universality introduced by Christianity was of a racial nature, where anyone could be saved, including people who are not descended from a specific Canaanite tribe.




posted on Feb, 1 2012 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 

. . . Jesus Christ, who's great work was for one and all, whether we believe in him or not . . .


". . . so that whoever believes shall not perish . . ."

The universality introduced by Christianity was of a racial nature, where anyone could be saved, including people who are not descended from a specific Canaanite tribe.


Whoever believes what?

Believe that we do wrong.
Believe that if there is a God without mercy we won’t go to heaven.
Believe that doing bad things is bad.
Believe that we should love each other.
Believe that Jesus taught a beautiful type of love that we should all aspire to be like.

Here are some things I know.

Everyone knows there has to be a builder; we are just too perfect to be an accident.
God says his laws are on the hearts of everyone
Everyone knows that doing something that hurts another is bad.
Everyone knows that if they were judged solely on the 10 commandments they would be in hell.
Everyone knows we need God’s forgiveness, and most people believe he is forgiving. He did send his son to die on the cross to forgive sins, so I think they are right on this one.
Everyone knows the greatest moral command is love your neighbor as yourself.

Here is what non Christians don’t have that Christians have.

They don’t understand Grace
They don’t understand the things that they do to themselves that cause them harm and misery
They aren’t 100% sure that they are going to heaven
They have no resource to guide them to the truth.

Do you see that believers in Christ are supposed to love non believers not condemn them? Jesus ate and drank with sinners and forgave every sin and healed everyone he saw. We are supposed to empathize with non believers and bring them to Christ through love not fear. Grace is a gift that is supposed to humble us but most Christians become boastful. Instead of bringing others to salvation, they hold their own salvation as a place of righteousness. The command is to be like Christ. To love the sinner and have empathy for those who don’t believe. Jesus said he did not come to judge and tells us we are not to judge either.



edit on 1-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 2 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

It's not up to us who is saved.
The Holy Spirit convicts people to believe, which they are free to resist.
That resistance against the spirit is not exclusive to that one thing.
The will of the Father is for everyone to believe in the Son, so anyone who does not believe in Jesus, or even if they believe in someone who seems similar to the New Testament Jesus but is the person's own invention, then they have put up a barrier between them and God.
So, figure it out from there.



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 10:44 AM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25
 

It's not up to us who is saved.
The Holy Spirit convicts people to believe, which they are free to resist.
That resistance against the spirit is not exclusive to that one thing.
The will of the Father is for everyone to believe in the Son, so anyone who does not believe in Jesus, or even if they believe in someone who seems similar to the New Testament Jesus but is the person's own invention, then they have put up a barrier between them and God.
So, figure it out from there.


What is this barrier? Do you think that non Christians go to hell? Do you think if someone doesn’t understand the bible they will go to hell? Please explain this barrier?



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

Just a mental block.
God does not force His will on people but desires obedience, which is something that comes from being persuaded that this person desiring obedience has the proper authority to demand it and the person willingly complies.



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


But most try to obey Christ. Many Christians fail to obey Christ worse than many non Christians. The word is on non Christians heart.



John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me.


It is only through Grace that anyone can come to the father. Jesus took away the stumbling block of fear by paying the price for our sins. No one can come to the father until they understand Grace. This does not mean they were not forgiven but they will still live in fear of the father, if they don’t believe in Christ.



John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.


They are condemned to live in fear of the father, and to continue to live by the law. They will never be free from sin, they will remain a slave to sin until their physical body perishes. They are condemned to live a life without Grace and Joy.



16:16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
John 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.


Unless you are baptized by the Holy Spirit you cannot enter the Kingdom of God. What does this mean?



Luke 17:21 nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."


You cannot enter the kingdom of God within in. You cannot enter the kingdom of God unless you believe and our baptized by the Holy Spirit. These passages are speaking nothing of the Day of Judgment that is to take place at the end of days. They like most of the passages about the kingdom of Heaven are speaking of entering the Kingdom of God within you.

Of course you cannot enter a place you don’t believe in. And you are condemned to live a life of sin, filled with misery. One that believes can become free from sin and live a life of Grace, hope, love, and joy.

edit on 3-2-2012 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 12:33 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

they will still live in fear of the father, if they don’t believe in Christ.

They are in fear of Satan, not knowing who God is, if they do not believe in Jesus.
And btw, who did Jesus pay this hypothetical debt to?



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by sacgamer25
 

they will still live in fear of the father, if they don’t believe in Christ.

They are in fear of Satan, not knowing who God is, if they do not believe in Jesus.
And btw, who did Jesus pay this hypothetical debt to?


The only righteous man to ever be found on earth was put to death on the cross. He paid the price for our sins, literally. His death was necessary to prove the resurrection. If not for his resurrection tbe teaching of Christ would be useless. Death was necessary to prove he had the authority of God. Durring his life he promised forgiveness to all and his resurrection is was the only way to confirm this promise was indeed given to us by God. We were born forgiven, and God proved this through his son. It is by Grace that we can see God in love and not fear.

No one is worthy of God without forgiveness. His sacrifice was more to prove we were forgiven than an actuwl payment for our sins. He paid the ultimate price to prove that we are forgiven, this is the payment for our sins.



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 06:28 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 




Originally posted by sacgamer25
Here is what I have been struggling with. I know that I am born of the spirit. And I know that there is something in each of us that points to the message of Christ. I know this because I see the word at work in me from when I was a child and I see it at work in my daughter. I know that that we are all loved by Jesus, no matter what we believe. The problem I have been having is Christians. But I think I have figured this out. Believing that Jesus is the son of God does not qualify you for the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. You must truly believe in him and repent.

To believe in him and repent this is done by works. You don’t believe in him if you don’t do what he said. You must be kind, generous, loving. You must not be greedy, immoral, and judgmental.


I’ve had similar discussions before with Christians, who say that you/me are just trying to save yourself/ourselves etc… and that salvation is a free gift, so that none should boast. This gets heavily into the, “faith without works” argument etc…

My own personal take on this, is that we do works because Gods word, asks us to do so. And I don’t see it as my righteousness or me trying to save myself, when all I am doing is honoring what God and Jesus have taught me to do. In fact, all the righteousness, goes to Jesus and the Father, for teaching us how to treat one another, and giving his life, in order that we might here his message and come to know God.

I don’t believe that any works, I actually do, go towards saving myself, but they are an outward sign that a change has taken place in my heart and spirit. The free gift as I see it, is the out pouring of the Holy Spirit, on those who accept Jesus message as coming from God, and then entering into a relationship with him.




Originally posted by sacgamer25
But so many Christians that believe that Jesus is the son, by their words and actions prove they do not believe in him. So they are not in him so he is not in them.


Well, I’m not sure if all of them “don’t believe in him.” But I kind if see a split here between those who believe by faith, and those who have become “born again.” Now I know Jesus says, for example, in John, that people can believe on him by faith alone, because of the miracles he has shown etc But he also tells us to seek the truth and to become born again. So I kind of see faith as only a steppingstone to becoming, what everyone should be striving towards, which is to become born again.

The problem I see with those who believe by faith, is that sometimes their faith can waver; this can differ from person to person depending on how their journey with God is progressing. So when you said above, that “they are not in him so he is not in them.”, this is true, from a spiritual perspective, because they have not yet received the Holy Spirit and become “born again”




Originally posted by sacgamer25
The problem is with the church. They are teaching when you believe “THAT” Jesus is the son of God that you receive the Spirit. This is simply not true. It is when you believe “IN” that you receive the Holy Spirit. And you must by your words and actions prove that you believe in him. For he knows your heart and if you don’t act on what you know to be true than you have not believed “IN” the message. You are not in Christ and he is not in you.


Yes, I completely agree with this, in that you must “believe in”, and not “believe that” Jesus is the Son of God. Because like you rightly pointed out, in your other posts, even the demons believe that Jesus is the Son of God, but they certainly don’t receive the Holy Spirit, or become part of the body of Christ because of that knowledge.

I think believing in Jesus and the receiving of the Holy Spirit, is all about having a change of heart in your own spirit. This is done IMO through recognizing that Jesus is not only speaking the truth, but that you also agree with it in your heart (partly through faith). And when this takes place in your spirit, God/Jesus realize this, and then acknowledge your belief, by coming to dwell within you. Of course this meeting of Gods and your own spirit, is not something you could fake, because God will know when it’s a genuine commitment.

So summing up, the problem IMO, is that although believing by faith is biblical; its a methodology that only takes a few verses, and then applies them to all belief. When Jesus words are taken in their entirety however, believers are supposed too by seeking the truth, and becoming “born again”. IMO Faith is only meant to be a steppingstone to ultimately becoming “born again.”


Continued…



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 06:29 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Continued…




Originally posted by sacgamer25
There are so many Christians who are like the Pharisees. The Jews were “God’s chosen people” yet Christ calls them children of Satan. There are many Christians who are “Gods chosen people” Who are children of Satan. These Pharisees could not see the truth that the whole law amounted to love God and love your neighbor.


This is true also. There are so many churches out there who are only interested in making money and converts. They convert people by promoting faith, but they don’t take it any further than that, by trying to get people to seek Jesus on a personal level. Matthew 23:15 is a good example of this.

Also in Matthew 23:8, Jesus tells the Pharisees, that there is only one true teacher, and that they should not call each other “Rabbi” etc…A similar scenario is taking place in many churches, where leaders are setting themselves up as an authority over other men. Which IMO is just plain wrong and goes against what Jesus taught.




Originally posted by sacgamer25
They have not understood Jesus when he said this.


Luke 9:27 I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.

I believe you understand this verse and what I am saying in a way that many don’t. Please let me know what you think.


Well, I did post on another thread recently about how I see the “Kingdom of Heaven.”

Please understand though that I don’t want you to just accept what I have to say here or elsewhere. I would rather people tried to seek out biblical truths and try to understand them for themselves, with Gods help. Don’t just accept what I, or others say, because it is the Father God, through the Holy Spirit who is the one and only true teacher.

I see the Kingdom of Heaven as something you become aware you are apart of, and are in, right now! It’s kind of like a realization or eureka moment…This is why I believe Jesus said what he did in Luke 9:27. I say this because believers become aware that they are a spiritual being, connected to God, and that the physical death is not real.

Some believers regard the Kingdom of Heaven and Heaven to be different places. My personal view is that they are one and the same place, but that there are many mansions and rooms within the Kingdom.

A friend of mine who left ATS a while back, used to talk about how in a Heavenly society, God couldn’t really allow those in (Heaven) who had continued to do evil things etc…which is true. So I kind of see it as God trying to help us from ourselves, rather than him being seen as the one who is condemning us.


- JC



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 06:55 PM
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reply to post by Akragon
 






Originally posted by Akragon
There are Chakras in your feet... and all over the body actually...



Chakras in my feet…lol

I don’t know much about Chakras but I have seen the basic schematics …and I don’t remember seeing any lights around the feet. lol




Originally posted by Akragon
Though i believe you may be missing the point of the testamony.... which is why i asked "what does it mean to you" a few posts back...


Yes very true; that’s a question I could not answer, unless I were Myrtales Instinct.





Originally posted by Akragon
The Meaning is symbolic... the act isn't required. Only the understanding of the symbolism…



Yes, they symbolize that Jesus is the servant of the Father who sent him.


- JC



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 





Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
Your post made me want to do one of those hyperextended toe touches cheerleaders do!Lol


I’m not sure what to say except…”Save the Cheerleader, Save the World!” lol




Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
Is your story around here anywhere? I'm dying to read it. I attempted to write out akragon a post, two or three times only to delete it. I always feel like a broke record around here and when I told the original story, I remember you (Jc) participating in that thread. Then on a later thread you asked me if I was the one who had the buzzing in my feet.



Unfortunately my complete story is not up here or anywhere else. I haven’t really had the guts, to go through the public ridicule lol

I do remember you mentioning your buzzing foot and this was at a time when I began researching into just about every Christian denomination known to man, partly on ATS, but mainly on various other websites, where I would mostly just absorb what people had written. Researching different theological doctrines online took up a lot of my time as well. I also attended a born again Christian church back in 2007 to mid 2008. I can’t remember exactly when, but sometime in 2009 I would get this tiny buzz in my left foot, which made me think of your earlier posts.


I’m glad you mentioned it, because along with the rest of the weird and wacky stuff going on in my life back then…I kind of felt ok, knowing that I wasn’t alone, in the buzzing foot department lol


- JC



posted on Feb, 3 2012 @ 08:54 PM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 

His death was necessary to prove the resurrection.

You already had that with Moses on the mountain meeting with Jesus.
Jesus was not just brought to life after his death,
he was the conquering warrior, over death itself.
The angel did not rebuke the devil when it came to retrieve Moses' soul.
It was a different story with Jesus.



posted on Feb, 4 2012 @ 12:43 AM
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reply to post by Joecroft
 



Chakras in my feet…lol

I don’t know much about Chakras but I have seen the basic schematics …and I don’t remember seeing any lights around the feet. lol


They arn't lights man...lol

Though in some cases they are refered to lights or lamps in scripture...

Chakras are energy points in your body... excellent places to focus your concentration in meditation.

Toes, fingertips,,, hands... theres hundreds of them but only 7 main ones, which are the strongest vibrations





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