Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by Indigo5
I know this is like beating a dead horse, but I am still curious as to how you came to your conclusion about when life begins. When the sperm enters
the egg, cell growth starts immediately. If the process is successful and uninterupted you get a baby.
Right there you distinguished between cell-division and "Baby"..."Baby" does not occur immediately, so the question is when.
From the merging of one egg and one sperm you get one cell, that then turns into two cells and then four and and so on and so on and if allowed
to grow, grows into a baby. If the cells are alive and growing properly how can they not be considered life? I do not understand your logic....
I do not define cell division as "Life"..the cell division you describe is also how cancerous tumors grow.
At some point that cell division matures to a critical mass or vessel capable of containing human life as we know it in the spiritual or accepted
scientific sense. I do not believe that occurs durring the first trimester. I think this is reflected in the high amount of spontaneous
abortions/misscarriages seen during that time and how they dramatically lessen to near zero after the first trimester.
The science that supports genetic anomoly as the cause for women misscarrying up to 50% of implantations is more guesswork than science and
unsupported. We don't know enough about genomes to make those conclusions from examining misscarriages, nor do I think that nature or God gets there
genetic recipe wrong that often. I don't see nature/god as making a mistake in the genetic soup 50% of the time it attempts to reproduce.
That said, even if there were genetic anomolies, it would still be life under your cell division definition..as would tumors...and thus wouldn't be
subject to spontaneous abortions, lest god loves life unequally?
The correlation between nutritional deficiences, stress, the womans body being in s good state etc. and other factors with women's health are well and
statistically established. The correlations claiming genetic mistakes is not sound science at all IMO...we are all genetic anomolies with none of us
having perfectly pristine genetic code, it is easy to find a genetic anomoly we don't fully understand and claim that as the probable cause. Not to
say that a percentage of misscarriages are not related to genetic mutation, but it is small. God favors the womans health until after the first
Trimester, then he treats the woman and child as equal...Child may live with the woman dying and vice-versa, but he no longer favors one or the other.
You don't have to agree, but this was just my conclusion after much personal philosophical and scientific research into the area. I don't like basing
my conclusions on religious dictates or idealogical nonsense, but rather on Philosophical, scientific and spiritual exploration. I don't trust
orthodox religion or politics for truth.
I would consider unneccesary second tri-mester abortions to be murder unless they are neccessary to save the mothers life and there was a measure of
certaintity that the mother and child would both die otherwise.
I consider first trimester abortions to be just that an aborted process.
When does life begin? I have answered that question for myself through careful thought and research. I look to nature/god for clues, not churches,
lawyers or politicians. Of course everyone else is entitled to think differently, but I prefer they actually "think".
Don't know what else to say...cell division? It's life only if you consider Tumors life. Sperm meets egg? Why not declare sperm life? It swims around
pretty well on it's own with a pretty clear purpose, it competes fiercly...almost in an ""aware" way. ....Should we lock up masterbaters? At some
point it all crosses into something we call "life"...a "person"...I think that happens well before birth, but not immediately when the sperm
penetrates the egg. I came to my conclusions based on the best question I could think of...not when does a priest think "life" starts...not when a
scientist says "Life" starts...but when does God or Nature start to treat those cells Differently? And it is right there...very dramatic...from a 50%
risk that god will abort the fetus...to virtually zero...From god/nature often aborting a fetus to protect the mothers health to putting the mother on
equal risk footing as the fetus....all changes in a span of a few days.... looking at the evidence, there seems a clear time when God recognizes
life...the start of the second trimester.
Not looking to change any minds or religious views, just sharing my thoughts and logicing on the issue and all I have seen in response is "Murder"
BS...no rational debate. If someone made a logical argument...one that started with the question "When does life begin" and was able to support their
answer without quoting a pro-choice website or the bible it would be worth discussing.
edit on 23-1-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason