Obama Defends Roe v. Wade As Way for ‘Our Daughters’ to Have Same Chance As Sons to ‘Fulfill T

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posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:00 PM
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I am pro choice, but I do think it can be very selfish to have an abortion. If a girl is doing to to maintain figure, avoid pain and costs. I have a question? How much does it cost to have a child (just hospital bills)? Any options or anything to pay for it for people that can't afford it? It would kinda be a shame and completely understandable if someone was having one because they couldn't afford the bills even if they were giving it away.

As I said I am completely pro choice (I think anything after the first trimester shouldn't be allowed though) and there is no arguing that life begins at implantation.
edit on 23-1-2012 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:01 PM
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Originally posted by windword
Just because you did something, doesn't mean that you can force a dictum on others. Get of your high horse, you are not the moral authority!



what are you blethering about, which "dictum", I responded to your point of "certainty"- I have given my example which proves your point is nonsense as I am sure I am not alone, so I have no idea what "high horse" and "Moral authority" you are imagining just because I proved your point to be bunkum oh "certain"one



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:03 PM
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Originally posted by Indigo5

Did I mention that almost half of all pregnancies (babies) are aborted (killed) by God in the first trimester?

"Spontaneous Abortion" equals "Misscarriage"

Either God kills 50% of all babies for the slightest of reasons, or maybe you might reconsider when life begins.

By the second trimester, "Spontaneous abortion" falls to less than 4%...by the 3rd trimester it is possible for the baby to live and the mother to die in childbirth or other complications.

Abortions in the 1st trimester do not kill babies...nor does God.

So, using your argument, I can murder as many people as I want, since (statistically) they will die anyway.

Look, you don't see a problem with killing unborn babies.

Some of us do.

Different strokes.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:14 PM
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reply to post by paxnatus
 


What a douche.

Girl gets pregnant: Kill the baby.

Boy get girl pregnant and she doesn't want to kill said baby ... boy gives half his paycheck for "child support" while girl lives with parents getting drunk every night.

Maybe we should let our Sons murder babies. MAYBE we should have a 30 day "like it or leave it" policy for new parents. Don't like the baby after 30 days, can't sleep, sick of the crying? Kill it! Think of the jobs it would create, in home baby extermination services. Then we can fulfill our dreams of parties without responsibility!



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by GogoVicMorrow
 




How much does it cost to have a child (just hospital bills)?


Depends on your insurance and whether you're poor or not (poor people usually pay almost nothing) .. the average American with a job pays right around $10k ... assuming the NICU isn't involved .. which can be exceptionally expensive.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by paxnatus
 


Frankly, he's right.

One of the differences between first world countries and third world countries (but just ONE) is that first world countries usually have birth control. Other countries without abortions have a form of birth control called infanticide, which has been practiced in all cultures for as long as humans have been around.

I don't think it's the best option, but until we can convince men that wearing condoms is THE thing to do when having sex -- every single time -- we will have the problem of unwanted babies. I don't know if you've seen the lives of many teens who become mothers (and have no husbands) but they usually end up poor, dependent on families, on food stamps, and locked into a grid of miserable poverty. They never get a chance.

Guys who have sex (and father children) usually don't end up as single parents raising one or more children by different women, struggling to find a better life while trying to be a good parent. Giving unwanted kids to orphanages (as in some of the former Soviet countries) leaves you with a staggering surplus of unwanted children raised in grim environments and a situation of too many people and not enough jobs.

Perhaps you have a better suggestion? Abortion works, but we don't like it. So we're looking for good alternatives that will be embraced by men (women would be happy to have something that men like.)

Whatcha got that you think can prevent unwanted pregnancies (rape and other actions) that men will buy into and how do you think it can be encouraged in countries such as Africa, where virgin rape is supposed to be a cure for HIV?



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Rockpuck
 




Boy get girl pregnant and she doesn't want to kill said baby ... boy gives half his paycheck for "child support" while girl lives with parents getting drunk every night.


This has to be the most ignorant thing I have read on this site for some time.

It is comments and mindsets like this that make it very difficult to have an actual conversation on the issue! Generalizations and outright zealotry does nothing to further your opinion, nor does it do any good towards your perceived intelligence.

If people want to have a conversation on the issue, crap like this will have to go.

/facepalm
edit on 23-1-2012 by sheepslayer247 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:32 PM
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Originally posted by paxnatus
[Qquote]Obama Defends Roe v. Wade As Way for ‘Our Daughters’ to Have Same Chance As Sons to ‘Fulfill Their Dreams’
cnsnews.com...


I'm not one to trust partisan sources, at the moment I'm trying to find the original source to his speech, a transcript, from an impartial source, to clarify this.


To regard a human life as a burden that would prevent one from following their dream is just degrading and sexist! Not to mention sick and twisted.


I don't know where 'sexist' came from. The ability to have a child is a gift, there are many couples out there who would do almost anything to be able to have a child of their own, so the idea that having a child is a burden to ones dream may be offensive if we are just talking about individuals who make poor choices, I wouldn't call it sexist though. I think your position is sexist, considering that you think all women must have the same view as you on this topic when this is not the case.


Ladies I hope you can see the satire here. The sad truth is, this is how this man views you.
I believe a womans ability to give birth is the most priceless gift on earth. Motherhood is the toughest job out there and yet, it yeilds thd greatest rewards.

If you think Obama cares about your rights, please consider how he values human life.


So because Obama doesn't support laws that dictate or regulate the womb, the bodies of women, he's sexist? That is one heck of a way to view his position I tell ya what. I suppose you know what's in the best interests of all pregnant women right? What about the child who was molested? Or the woman victimized, a woman who suffered through a crime, you care so much for her rights that you're willing to threaten her if she chooses not to go forward with the pregnancy after the incident?

The only thing people like you care about is achieving your social and political agenda here.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:34 PM
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Regardless of your view for or against the abortion issue - it is not within the purview of the federal government to limit a woman's (or anyone else for that matter) to have a medical procedure. Of course it should not be subsidized endorsed or funded by the government either.

It is a very personal issue...it doesn't really have anything to do with the welfare of the general public if a woman chooses abortion.

However, I do think that in certain instances - like welfare abuse, etc. the failure to choose the option could be detrimental to society in that we all foot the bill for unwanted/unloved children with our taxes.

That debate is a separate on I think from the right itself. I personally think that if one has kids they can't afford it should be their penance to bear full responsibility for their poor choices, financial and otherwise. I personally think that would solve the issue - stop helping the clueless.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:35 PM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
I am pro choice, but I do think it can be very selfish to have an abortion. If a girl is doing to to maintain figure, avoid pain and costs. I have a question? How much does it cost to have a child (just hospital bills)?


A kid isn't just "hospital bills" (and the answer 30 years ago was "about $3,000 for a C-section".) A kid is diapers, furniture, car seats, carriers, clothing, toys.

And no woman that I know personally (including the ones who came to Planned Parenthood when I worked as a volunteer) had an abortion to "maintain her figure." I do, however, remember a man walking out of the delivery room swearing at his wife (loud enough for everyone on the floor to hear) about "another goddamned girl" and shouting angrily about what a failure she was because she'd given him six daughters. I wasn't allowed out of the labor room so I could go punch his face.)


Any options or anything to pay for it for people that can't afford it? It would kinda be a shame and completely understandable if someone was having one because they couldn't afford the bills even if they were giving it away.

There are homes, but they have limited space. And, frankly, there aren't millions of people lining up to adopt babies who aren't blond and blue-eyed.


As I said I am completely pro choice (I think anything after the first trimester shouldn't be allowed though)

I agree -- UNLESS the baby is dying or dead.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by Southern Guardian

Originally posted by paxnatus
[Qquote]Obama Defends Roe v. Wade As Way for ‘Our Daughters’ to Have Same Chance As Sons to ‘Fulfill Their Dreams’
cnsnews.com...


I'm not one to trust partisan sources, at the moment I'm trying to find the original source to his speech, a transcript, from an impartial source, to clarify this.

I didn't think to source check. Thank you for thinking about this possibility. I'd be interested to see what you find.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:41 PM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
He did not say, "Abortion Enables Our Daughters To Fulfill Their Dreams"


Originally posted by paxnatus
“And as we remember this historic anniversary, we must also continue our efforts to ensure that our daughters have the same rights, freedoms, and opportunities as our sons to fulfill their dreams.”


And NOWHERE in there does he say QUOTE "Abortion Enables Our Daughters To Fulfill Their Dreams" END QUOTE

When you put something in quote marks, that means they said those ACTUAL words in that order. That's not what he said.
edit on 1/23/2012 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)


I think that if it was the opposite and it was a republican that said that you would do exactly what other are doing.

At the end of the day, order or words or not, that's basically what this war criminal that you support has said



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

So, using your argument, I can murder as many people as I want, since (statistically) they will die anyway.

Look, you don't see a problem with killing unborn babies.

Some of us do.

Different strokes.


Both your claims are based on the assumption that life begins at conception.

I believe that life begins shortly after the start of the second trimester.

Seeing as Misscarriages occcur in 50% of all implantations and can be caused by stress, vitamin deficiency or the slightest of imbalances in the mother...If for any reason the mother looks unprepared to physically weather the pregnancy well, god will abort the fetus. It happens 50% of the time.

And in the second trimester that rate suddenly and dramtically falls off to near zero...whatever the physical state of the mother.

and by the 3rd trimester nature or God seems to weigh the lives equally where the mother may actually die from the strain of pregnancy or delivery...

I am confident that life does not begin at conception.

I do not condone murder, nor do I think 1st trimester abortions are murder.

So...IMO... your logic begins with a false assumption and that is the case with most Anti-Choice rhetoric.
edit on 23-1-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


So according to you, life does not begin until the 13th week! Well then if you can detect a heartbeat at 12 weeks, the 'thing' glob or whatever doesn't count? Very curious to know why you feel this way?

Pax



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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reply to post by Golf66
 


I totally agree. I do believe it's a States right however to regulate whether or not the procedure can be done. Let the voters decide.

The biggest ignorance of saying is gives girls the "same chance" as boys to fulfill their dreams is to ignore that the vast majority of girls who have it done end up with sometimes severe PTSD from the procedure. Not to surprisingly the Government, while supporting the procedure, offers no mental counseling what so ever.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 03:05 PM
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This is no surprise from a huge advocate for partial birth abortion.

Something is terribly wrong in a world that kills it's babies. Like Dr. Paul said in his last debate. Abortion is a violent crime. If you think the babies feel no pain watch "The Silent Scream" documentary made many years before Partial Birth Abortion was legislated. Warning: It can make you physically ill.

This video is a stimulation of the Partial Birth Procedure using a doll.










edit on 1/23/2012 by sad_eyed_lady because: add info



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


If tissue is growing, doesn't that mean it is alive?



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 03:16 PM
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Originally posted by paxnatus
reply to post by Indigo5
 


So according to you, life does not begin until the 13th week! Well then if you can detect a heartbeat at 12 weeks, the 'thing' glob or whatever doesn't count? Very curious to know why you feel this way?

Pax



I am curious as to how you define life...by the first electrical spasm of the un-evolved heart tissue?

I have already articulated why I do not believe first tri-mester fetus's are "Babies"...in short I look to Nature/God for guidance.

God Spontaneously Aborts over half of all pregnancies and does so within the 1st trimester. Causes of missacarriage can be as slight as simple stress to the mother. God respects life and looks to protect the living...the mother. After the first Trimester that misscarriage rate drops from 50%+ to less than 4% in a matter of a week or less...and the mother can suffer all types of health risks and the baby will not misscarry. By delivery the mother can actually die during childbirth. So on that spectrum...First Trimester...mothers poor nutirition can cause a misscarriage...by the end the Mother can be bleeding to death and that Baby will stay put until it is absolutely neccessary and it will come out kicking. Life does not begin at conception...but it is certainly there by delivery...so where does it occur? God answers that ...or Nature...When nature stops pampering the mother after the first trimester and starts acknowledging that there are two lives in the balance...both at risk...no preference...This happens when nature is no longer willing to misscarry a fetus for the slightest of reasons or to simply favor the mothers health...the end of the first trimester. going into the second. The misscarry rate (Spontaneous Abortions by God) drops from 1/2 implantations to less than 4/100...it is dramatic and telling IMO.

edit on 23-1-2012 by Indigo5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 03:17 PM
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Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by Indigo5
 


If tissue is growing, doesn't that mean it is alive?



Many a scientist sitting in front of a petri dish would disagree with you, but you are entitled to your own spiritual or scientific perspective.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 03:40 PM
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Originally posted by paxnatus
[Qquote]

Motherhood is the toughest job out there

If you think Obama cares about your rights, please consider how he values human life. Here we see once again his true colors.

edit on Mon Jan 23 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: EX tags and edit title to source title, added source IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS
edit on Mon Jan 23 2012 by DontTreadOnMe because: title AGAIN


^ I cut out a lot of the **noise** just to comment on those two.

Hardest job? Really? The hardest job? In what way? Physically women are designed to bear children, it is no harder for a woman to carry a child than it is for a tiger to have stripes or for a dolphin to swin. As far as raising children, we've raised 2 it isn't hard to teach children to be human beings.

What is hard? The worry? Raise 'em right, give them strong self confidence and that's all you need to do. It wasn't hard at all. The hardest thing really was sitting through the same fall and spring music recitals hearing the same songs butchered!
But really, hardest job ever? I am pretty sure that folks in the 3rd world working in sweatshops making our useless trinkets is a far harder job.

Now as for the value of life... REALLY? There are 7 BILLION people on this planet, we're not special. If our #s were as low as the whooping crane, then every life would be valuable, but when you hit the 7 billion mark there is NOTHING special about human life. We are like a particularly virulent strain of bacteria!

Derek





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