Obama Defends Roe v. Wade As Way for ‘Our Daughters’ to Have Same Chance As Sons to ‘Fulfill T

reply to post by technical difficulties


Well, look at the policies of the liberal Democrats. Do they not closely resemble the socialist platform? Let's be real about this. While not every liberal counts him or herself as a socialist per se...they do still seem to agree with the socialist platform. With 70 members of Congress also members of DSA, it should be evident that the agenda will closely match.
But I do get your point.

Originally posted by guitarplayer
The problem with the way the law is today is that it does not take into consideration of what the father might want

Nature doesn't take into considering what the father wants. The woman, without choice, has to carry out the pregnancy, in her own body. She feels the pain, she takes on the stress, and in turn, she takes full control. This is how it's always been. 'Biological fairness' doesn't exist. No law will not change this reality. Pro-lifers cannot seem to comprehend this.

Then there is the father side of the issue if he wants to keep the baby the mother can have an abortion and the father can’t do anything about it.

Well it's a two way street isn't it? The father should have known what he was getting himself into with whom in the first place. I'd say that if the mother didn't want it, and the father offered to take care of it through love, it would be mighty low of the mother to go ahead with the abortion, it really would, but in the end this is still her choice, as nature has deemed so.

Originally posted by timetothink
reply to post by Maslo

 

You won't get it, because you have a lower regard for life in general, at least that is what I get from your posts. Low regard for life in general leads to a lawless, animalistic society...I thought the whole purpose of evolution was to become more and more civilized?

edit on 24-1-2012 by timetothink because: (no reason given)

In fact, the opposite is true. Those who are pro-life since conception DEVALUE the value of a human life by equaling a human being with a bunch of cells comparable a primitive amoeba. It is not only absurd, it is frankly disgusting, IMHO.

No wonder there is a correlation between pro-life and those who are against welfare and healthcare available for all, with such a twisted mindset.

Originally posted by ThirdEyeofHorus
reply to post by Maslo

 

Better to be dead than suffer from a mother who doesn't want you....interesting choice.

Not dead. Nonexisting. Big difference. Its the same as if the mother used contraception or refused the sex in the first place, which is not morally wrong, is it? You cannot murder someone who has never existed in the first place.

For the record, I do support ban on late-term abortion (except to protect the mother etc.)

I was an "accident" conceived before roe/wade. i was not planned or wanted. let me tell you about the life that those unaborted children would have. it's hell. if given the choice between being aborted, or spending the 1st 18 yrs of my life going through hell, i wish my mother had aborted me.

reply to post by Golf66


Cancer does not grow into a baby.. Sometimes people just argue for the sake of arguing. Think about what you are saying. We are talking about a human life. Not cancer.

Originally posted by newsoul
reply to post by Golf66

 

Cancer does not grow into a baby.. Sometimes people just argue for the sake of arguing. Think about what you are saying. We are talking about a human life. Not cancer.

Embryo indeed may grow into a baby in the future, but it is not a baby yet, is it? So why protect it?

Well this puts and interesting spin on the abortion thing

Conservative Christianity's Obsessions Promote Abortions --

www.alternet.org...

Pretty much hits the nail on the head I'd say

There is no rhyme or reason to this argument, and everything that can possibly be said has been said,

Why is it that it is called murder if a women endangers the life of her unborn child by doing drugs, yet she could have had an abortion ?

Two doctors who performed late-term abortions in a Cecil County clinic now face murder charges. The police investigation began last year when police say Dr. Steven Brigham and Dr. Nicola Riley performed part of an abortion in New Jersey, then transferred the patient to Maryland to finish it. When the 18-year-old woman suffered complications she was taken to the hospital. Then, police searched the abortion clinic looking for her medical records, but they found something else in the freezer.
baltimore.cbslocal.com...
“It contained the fetuses, approximately 35,” a Cecil County police officer explained. “Some of them appeared to be close to full-term.”

By Kelly Hollowell, J.D., Ph.D.
Cloning technology offers prolifers their greatest scientific edge since Roe.

sites.silaspartners.com...

Cloning technology is simple to understand. All cells containing DNA have 46 chromosomes except the sperm and egg, which have only 23 chromosomes each. In natural conception, 23 chromosomes of the sperm and 23 chromosomes of the egg unite to create a single cell embryo containing 46 chromosomes. The genetic makeup of every living human being is determined when the sperm and egg unite. This is commonly known as the point of conception.

Conversely, in cloning, one adult cell containing 46 chromosomes is isolated from a donor. The DNA or genetic material comprising 46 chromosomes is removed from the donor cell. Similarly, a recipient egg is selected, isolated and the 23 chromosomes of a recipient egg are removed and discarded. The 46 chromosomes of the donor cell are introduced into the now empty (enucleated) egg. This is the point of conception! Therefore, the moment the 46 chromosomes of the donor cell are introduced into the enucleated egg, a single cell embryological twin of the donor has been created.

It is clear, then, that the development of Dolly and all individual life is encoded in the genetic material itself and that life is sparked or ignited like a switch the moment an egg contains a complete set of chromosomes.

sites.silaspartners.com...

What if you are wrong, do you ever stop to consider you might be wrong?

What if women would be more cautious and responsible if abortion was NOT an option, there is no reason to not use protection in most instances.

Those that say, but an unwanted baby will be mistreated, that is not necessarily true either, plenty of women that want their children and planned for a child turn out to be lousy mothers as well, there isn't any reason that a women carrying an unwanted child wont fall in love with it and be a wonderful mother after it is born.

There is just no way of predicting what kind of mother you will turn out to be.

reply to post by Stormdancer777


From your source:

Two doctors who performed late-term abortions in a Cecil County clinic now face murder charges.

So the abortions were late-term, and in that case there are indeed powerful reasons to ban such abortions, because the foetus is viable and the pregnancy can be usualy terminated without killing it, and also because it is developed to the point where it is closer to a baby with active brain and everything, than a bunch of cells.

Why is it that it is called murder if a women endangers the life of her unborn child by doing drugs, yet she could have had an abortion ?

It so not called murder, but chemical endangerement. The rationale is that it could cause health problems for the resulting child (and even up to adulthood) that could develop from the foetus. So either abort, or dont do drugs.

sites.silaspartners.com...

www.nrlc.org...

There is a book called, When the Drummers Were Women, I have to go find it there is a passage in it that might have a profound impact on how we view abortion.

You may not remember,
but let me tell you this,
someone in some future time,
will think of us.
Sappho

I am the soul the creation of the primeval waters, my nest was unseen my egg was unbroken,
The Egyptian Book of The dead.

The Pulse of Life

When The Drummers Were Women,

The first sound we hear in our mothers womb may be her heartbeat,
the pulse of our mothers blood through her veins,

All the eggs a women will ever carry form in her ovaries while she is a four month old fetus in the womb of her mother.

This means our cellular life as an egg begins in the womb of our grandmother.

As a tiny pulsing egg we experience the birth of our mother.

Each of us spent five months in our grandmothers womb.
We vibrate to the rhythm of our mothers blood before she herself is born.
And the pulse is the thread blood that runs all the way back through the grandmothers to the first mother
We all share the blood of the first mother,
we are truly children of one blood.

Please take it into consideration, on a scientific and spiritual LEVEL, FUTURE GENERATION WILL WONDER IN AWE THAT WE LOST OUR CONNECTION TO THE DIVINE.

I can hear them.

reply to post by Stormdancer777



TPTB would have us believe that abortion is empowering women, I happen to believe our power lies in,

creating and nurturing life.

What part of 'it's none of your damned business what I choose to do with a pregnancy' don't politicians understand?

Originally posted by Stormdancer777
reply to post by Stormdancer777

 

TPTB would have us believe that abortion is empowering women, I happen to believe our power lies in,

creating and nurturing life.

I'm sure there's plenty of men who'd also prefer it if women only raised children and kept out of any other field of life. Women can have children *if they choose*. That's the freedom. It's not obligatory, and it's not necessary to breed every time a sperm slips through the net. There'd be standing room only if that were the case.

How I look at it, the world is suffering, especially the USA.
I read somewhere a few of the potential potuses want to STOP birth control and ban abortion. Smart move. Let's bring MORE mouths to feed on the hideous prices, lack of work and already super populated world.

I believe a cell doesn't become a full human til way later when all the organs are formed and are working properly. It can't live outside the womb much before what, 4 or 5 months? Even then abortions are usually done from the first day of finding out to what, 8 week? 12 at tops? It's still a lump of cell.

Please take a look at the facts of when life begins. I was so angry this morning with Obama and his comments, I decided to write him a letter. Here it is, and yes it will upset many.

above top secret

Thanks,
Pax

Originally posted by paxnatus
Please take a look at the facts of when life begins. I was so angry this morning with Obama and his comments, I decided to write him a letter.

It is your right to believe whatever you want.

It is not your right to shove your belief on others.

I am very proud of a president who finally took the correct stand on this subject.

Way to go! Obama.

Originally posted by paxnatus
Please take a look at the facts of when life begins. I was so angry this morning with Obama and his comments, I decided to write him a letter. Here it is, and yes it will upset many.

above top secret

Thanks,
Pax

OK. Lets look at some definitions first.

How about the definition of life?

1. The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism.
2. The characteristic state or condition of a living organism.
3. Living organisms considered as a group.
4. A living being, especially a person.

Hmmm, I wonder what an "organism" is?.... Lets look it up.....

In biology, an organism is any contiguous living system (such as animal, fungus, micro-organism, or plant). In at least some form, all organisms are capable of response to stimuli, reproduction, growth and development, and maintenance of homoeostasis as a stable whole.

Ok. What is homeostasis?

Homeostasis (from Greek: ὅμοιος, hómoios, "similar"[1] and στάσις, stásis, "standing still";[2]) is the property of a system that regulates its internal environment and tends to maintain a stable, constant condition of properties like temperature or pH.

Nope. A fetus, zygote or embryo is incapable of homeostsis. I can't regulate its temperature or Ph, for example, or anything else.

A cell has the qualities that define life.

The cell is the basic structural and functional unit of all known living organisms. It is the smallest unit of life that is classified as a living thing,

An human cell, T-cell, nerve cell or stem cell is NOT a person.

Stem cells are special because they are crucial to the developing fetus, as they morph into specific cell types with specific characteristics like liver cells, skin cells blood cells etc. An embryo, zygote or fetus have not even developed all the proper cells yet, in order to be a viable human being.

The tongue and digestive systems are the first to develop, and then the heart. That's why we hear a heart beat at 5 weeks, but the neurology of the brain doesn't get wired until 5 months. No brain, no feelings, no thoughts, no conscouness or sentience. NO MURDER!

A "potential" human doesn't deserve rights above the rights of the mother.

Genocide often framed in the language of "choice."

Resources are inadequate to care for intended victim class if they are allowed to live.

Victim class tends to be people who have what we want or get in our way.

Personhood is always redefined to exclude the intended victim class.

blackgenocide.org...






Please go to link to see descriptions for each of these arguments for abortion and see how they mirror the arguments for the holocaust and slavery.