We need to seriously start considering secession and here is why

reply to post by lampsalot


So you're suggesting that we just forget the sacrifices of our Forefathers and those who came before us? You suggest we forsake the ideals of Liberty and Republicanisim in favor of what exactly? Men and women have died and spilt blood so that this nation can live up to its name "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave." You would do away with over 200 years of history and progress?

Americas Founding Fathers knew that they couldn't live up to the ideals stated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution in their lifetimes. They passed their dreams on to the following generations and yes it took 190 years to fully and completely fulfill many of those promises but they were fulfilled. America lived up to her creed that 'All men were created Equal' and 'were endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights'. Would you wash away the ink of 56 signatures? Would you abolish the dreams of men such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Abraham Lincoln?

When nations and the men within those nations begin to forget their beginning and the dreams of the men who founded their nation then they are doomed I believe. We must not forget who we are, why we are here or where we come from. We must not forget that men died so that we could live free and enjoy the dream that is Liberty.

"The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered, perhaps, as deeply and as finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people." ~ President George Washington

Originally posted by Indenu
What's next after that?

You need Weaponry to stop anyone invading you, you need a relieable resource for food, water, power
and Prison. Then you need a offical currency

( I would imagine it's alot harder than that really )

I would rather have a rough time starting over than bow to handouts or any solution coming from the current world leaders. They hate us "useless eaters". Personally, childish zionists need to be put in a timeout. All their toys need to be taken away from them, and they need to learn how to share with others. We all learned that, now its their turn! I personally can't wait until it falls apart. Nothing we can do will fix it, and anything revolutionary enough to make a difference would label you a terrorist. Hard times are coming either way. Ill fight for change.

reply to post by lampsalot


Taking from both Canada and the USA, how would the differences be dealt with?
Or have the difference between the 2 countries been ironed out? There are a lot of differences.

Metric or imperial measurements? Celcius or farenheit?
Check or cheque?
Medical - private insurance ($$$$$), or government supplied?
Borders - what about people born there and have moved? Immigration?
What about trade with other countries, such as China? Reading some of the postings on here, it seems as though a lot of Americans don't like the Chinese much, yet Vancouver has many.

I also can't tell if you're north or south of the current border.

reply to post by snowspirit


Going from Portland to Seattle to Vancouver you cannot really tell the difference between them. The culture is very much the same.. even the architecture is very much the same. Vancouver BC probably has more in common with the NW United States than the far Eastern cities of Canada. Or maybe it's the NW United States has more in common with Vancouver? Meh.. Vancouver gets all the hype for Western Canada.. give me Victoria over Vancouver any day!

Northerners seceding? If states did start seceding though it would make traveling across states even more difficult. I think if it did happen it would basically become a east/west Germany deal with civil wars thrown in. Families divided and border wars.

I am confused as to why you would mention BC in a secession thread.

But I was disappointed when Rick Perry ran for President, because as a governor of Texas he suggested that Texas could secede, if the people of Texas wanted to.

The state of Texas has enough guns to outfit the chinese army and more. Not to mention one of the strongest economies in the world. THE WORLD.

If I was governor of Texas I would motion to secede and legalize marijuana in the same day. That would effectively cut off the cartels and industrialize a major staple US cash crop to further boost the economy.

I would encourage citizens of other states to move here, when they arrived we would provide them with a rifle and inform them that it is their patriotic duty to defend the borders. Many states would follow suit after the mass exodus and then it would grow.

United States of Texas anyone?

reply to post by thehoneycomb

I am confused as to why you would mention BC in a secession thread.

"Cascadia" is a theoretical cultural and geophysical idea that Northern California all the way up to northern BC and parts of Alaska is an exclusive zone deserving of it's own independence. Theoretically if this "Cascadia" nation ever existed independently it would be within the top economies of the World.

reply to post by Rockpuck


Ah ok thanks for your help.

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by lampsalot

 

I'm part of the Cascadia movement

I can't say I'm "part" of the Cascadia movement myself, as I am not sure there is an actual "group" but I am a very big supporter of the principles of the Cadcadia Independence Movement.

capitalism

There's nothing wrong with Capitalism. Corporatism is not the same as Capitalism, and Capitalism is not inherently corrupt.

I think the Occupy movement is gradually going to turn into a revolutionary movement

Is that still around?

And by the way... Ron Paul is an avid supporter of Capitalism.

There's some of us who meet sometimes in Portland, it's, like Occupy, not an 'official' group that people sign up with paperwork, but rather a loose but dedicated collective, with some people in the middle more active than others and other peripheral members. On Cascadia Now! on Facebook there are people from all over the region, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, etc. I think some other people also meet in Washington state now and again and I would like to travel to British Columbia and host a meeting up there in this spring.

I don't like Ron Paul because voting for him still implies you are pro-American government. Our government is broken and honestly I hope the person who wins is the person who will make the American people lose faith in Washington the most quickly.

My problem with capitalism is it's based on a principle of human selfishness and it requires infinite growth on a finite world. I respect people who are pro-capitalism but I am not in their numbers.

Originally posted by I Want To Believe
reply to post by lampsalot

 

So you're suggesting that we just forget the sacrifices of our Forefathers and those who came before us? You suggest we forsake the ideals of Liberty and Republicanisim in favor of what exactly? Men and women have died and spilt blood so that this nation can live up to its name "The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave." You would do away with over 200 years of history and progress?

Americas Founding Fathers knew that they couldn't live up to the ideals stated in the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution in their lifetimes. They passed their dreams on to the following generations and yes it took 190 years to fully and completely fulfill many of those promises but they were fulfilled. America lived up to her creed that 'All men were created Equal' and 'were endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights'. Would you wash away the ink of 56 signatures? Would you abolish the dreams of men such as George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison and Abraham Lincoln?

When nations and the men within those nations begin to forget their beginning and the dreams of the men who founded their nation then they are doomed I believe. We must not forget who we are, why we are here or where we come from. We must not forget that men died so that we could live free and enjoy the dream that is Liberty.

"The preservation of the sacred fire of liberty and the destiny of the republican model of government are justly considered, perhaps, as deeply and as finally, staked on the experiment entrusted to the hands of the American people." ~ President George Washington

Americanism is a religion I don't believe in. America from the beginning, has been about oppression, not freedom.

I know I'm going to get based for that but it's just my opinion and I think if you read any honest, factual history of this country you will realize that our history is so ugly.

Originally posted by snowspirit
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Taking from both Canada and the USA, how would the differences be dealt with?
Or have the difference between the 2 countries been ironed out? There are a lot of differences.

Metric or imperial measurements? Celcius or farenheit?
Check or cheque?
Medical - private insurance ($$$$$), or government supplied?
Borders - what about people born there and have moved? Immigration?
What about trade with other countries, such as China? Reading some of the postings on here, it seems as though a lot of Americans don't like the Chinese much, yet Vancouver has many.

I also can't tell if you're north or south of the current border.

Good questions!!!

Well one of the reasons I'm pro-Cascadia is because in my opinion at least, Oregon/Washington in many ways has more in common with BC than it does with the rest of America, and BC has more in common with Oregon/Washington than it does with the rest of Canada.

Now, I went up to Vancouver for a few days last month, and I have to say it was not as similar to here as I expected. Definitely tons of Canadianisms and it felt quite foreign, I'm sure in many ways it's very similar to Toronto. However I think deep down the culture is still shared with the people south of 49; Vancouverites have that new age/hippie influence and a reverence for nature for example.

As for the systems, I think a Cascadian governance should use metric since it's a more logical system, and plus I see Cascadia as mostly being a backlash against American imperialism; I'd say our values are more similar to Canadian values even though most of Cascadia's citizens will be ex-Americans. But we shouldn't force people to adopt metric; just encourage it.

Check/cheque, tomato tomatoe eh?

Medical I would say it should be a mix of government supplied and locally done. I'm not totally about a Canadian healthcare system since I would prefer for the Cascadian government to have relatively weak power, but people definitely should never be denied care or punished for getting sick because they don't have enough money.

I think we should have open borders, no checkpoints. We can still regulate immigration by making people have to confirm residency or citizenship when they apply for work. I think anyone born in Cascadia, or who is living there, or who has an immediate relative (parent, sibling, child) or a significant number of extended relatives living there should automatically be a Cascadian citizen.

I think we should be friendly and open with trade, but not dependent on it. Self-sufficiency with trade as a luxury and a way to form friendships with other realms.

Originally posted by Mcupobob
Northerners seceding?

If states did start seceding though it would make traveling across states even more difficult. I think if it did happen it would basically become a east/west Germany deal with civil wars thrown in. Families divided and border wars.

I think it would be more like the collapse of the Soviet Union. I like the idea myself of keeping the borders open for that very reason.

And even if it wasn't an ideal situation, I think with the warmongering and dishonesty of America these days, staying part of the Union is becoming intolerable.

reply to post by lampsalot


Yes like everyone else's history which is puppy dogs and flowers right? No group in Humanity has a clean history, hell even the deli lama has blood and slavery in his past.

en.wikipedia.org...

People are so naive. The U.S. has been under economic dictatorship since 1913.
What makes anyone believe that the elections are free.

The election fraud is right in plain sight. The corporate monopolies created by the government are allowed to rig the elections by simple force of monopoly money.

Why do we accept that - and not call a pig a pig.

reply to post by lampsalot


Actually that sounds kind of nice.
I was born and raised in Vancouver. It would be nice if those of us that moved away from the province would always be able to come back.
But I would go further north next time, Vancouver was too crowded, and crazy expensive.

Water, power, and other resources wouldn't be much of a problem, that area is very, very resource rich.
That's what would make it impossible to get away from the US and Canada. The governments of either country would not want to release these states/province.

I love this idea, but I agree with the poster who said that the US will not give up Microsoft, Boeing, Starbucks, and the other companies here. It won't be peaceful.

My question is how would we know if our government has collapsed? It might be my lack of understanding of political history, but besides violent revolution, how would we know? I don't think a news broadcast would tell us, because it might cause mass panic and riots.
How would we know when it's time to form Cascadia? Through the methods you proposed (getting to know neighbors, spreading the word, etc.) would we just one day morph into a new country with PNW cultural values and ideals?

reply to post by collietta


In this day and age? Sure.. it'd be a news broadcast. That's how the Soviet Union was announced? They woke up one morning and their entire way of life collapsed around them.

reply to post by lampsalot


You say that Americanisim is a religion. How in what way is it a religion? You also say that America from the beginning has been about oppression rather than freedom. In what way? The America I read about in the history books says that America was founded on the priciples of Liberty and Republicanisim. America was founded BECAUSE of oppression (the oppression of Great Britain on the American colonies) not ON oppression. It was however founded on the ideals of Freedom and Liberty. Those same ideals hold true even in this day and age.

We mustn't give up on these ideals. If we do we dishonor our Forefathers and their many, many sacrifices. I'm not sure which history books you've been reading but you have a very skewered sense of American history. I'm very glad you're trying to 'Become the Change' and be active and voice your opinions but you must understand that men shed their blood so that you COULD have an opinion AND voice it.

"Liberty must at all hazards be supported. We have a right to it, derived from our Maker. But if we had not, our fathers have earned and bought it for us, at the expense of their ease, their estates, their pleasure, and their blood." ~ President John Adams

Originally posted by collietta
I love this idea, but I agree with the poster who said that the US will not give up Microsoft, Boeing, Starbucks, and the other companies here. It won't be peaceful.

My question is how would we know if our government has collapsed? It might be my lack of understanding of political history, but besides violent revolution, how would we know? I don't think a news broadcast would tell us, because it might cause mass panic and riots.
How would we know when it's time to form Cascadia? Through the methods you proposed (getting to know neighbors, spreading the word, etc.) would we just one day morph into a new country with PNW cultural values and ideals?

Valid questions. No it won't be completely peaceful. Well, the Cascadian resistance will act completely peacefully, we reject anyone who uses violence as a means. The idea is to annoy the feds so much they BEG us to leave!

Sadly, the brutality of our military and government will probably mean that some life will be lost. But the only alternative is to send our troops to Iran and possibly a third world war, to see our middle class continue to shrink, and our rights and quality of life to continue to decline. Sure, it's not that bad now being part of America, but anyone with two eyes and half a brain can realize that we are the frog in the pot of slowly boiling water.

And while I love Canada and am sad to think that it won't exist in the future, the Canadian government is just a puppet of our government anyways. If America falls, Canada will too. I think the US government will gradually lose its power over the Northwest, and everywhere else, over a few years like the Soviet Union did and Cascadia and other realms will gradually fill in the vacuum. It won't be suddenly in one day, though eventually we will have our version of December 31, 1991 where the US government finally admits it's irrelevant and dissolves completely.

And yes, I think if the Cascadia meme continues to spead, and it is spreading, and most people I talk to about it like the idea, even if they question how possible it is, Cascadia will become a reality. As a bioregion, it is a reality already, and culture tends to follow the borders of bioregions. For example the culture of the American South developed due to its humid subtropical climate, the Mason-Dixon line almost perfectly follows the boundary of that climate type.

Well you will find out what life is like if your currency is not backed by oil.