We need to seriously start considering secession and here is why

People are talking about 'taking back' or 'fixing' America, electing Ron Paul, or another Republican, etc.

I don't think that will ever be enough. Our political system is too intertwined with big business, bribery, and influence by the corrupt elite that even if we get a good person in office, or good people in office, it won't mean crap because the system itself is broken and they won't be able to keep any of their promises.

Electing decent people into a bad government is like putting fine French wine into a slimey plastic cup. Ron Paul isn't going to be able to change sh*t.

I'm part of the Cascadia movement, we want Oregon, Washington, and BC, and some surrounding areas if they're interested to leave the Union and Canada as soon as it can be done reasonably and peacefully. Between these imperialistic wars, our rights being stripped away, the stripping away of the middle class, the failure of a system that is based on unlimited growth on a finite world (fine, i will name it: capitalism), I'm sick of being ruled by an eastern city that is half as far away as Japan is. Even if I lived in Maryland, I wouldn't want to be ruled by the sociopathic, psychotic people in DC.

I think the Occupy movement is gradually going to turn into a revolutionary movement, and I think this is a good thing. The US government, and the EU, Canadian government, and all the other puppet states of the US/global elite, are running out of money, resources, and the public's faith, and their Soviet-like self-collapse is inevitable.

In order for secession and new realms in North America and beyond to be successful, people need to re-create the community we have lost to capitalism and the push of modern life to isolated extreme individualism and obsession with work. Grow a garden and say hi to your neighbors. And then we can get on the street and stand a chance to leave this crappy system and, let's be frank, failed experiment that is called the United States of America.

Ron Paul isn't gonna save this country. This country is doomed. Let's re-shape our destiny. America was never the noble, wonderful place it is believed to be. Our country was never a beacon of freedom. Black people were denied rights in some places as late as the 60s (or even later than that).

Joel Garreau put out a book 30 years ago called Nine Nations of North America and I think it's a good model for building the new, more localized systems we are going to need after the Great Collapse.

What's next after that?

You need Weaponry to stop anyone invading you, you need a relieable resource for food, water, power
and Prison. Then you need a offical currency

( I would imagine it's alot harder than that really )

Originally posted by Indenu
What's next after that?

You need Weaponry to stop anyone invading you, you need a relieable resource for food, water, power
and Prison. Then you need a offical currency

( I would imagine it's alot harder than that really )

I never said it was gonna be easy. And I don't picture going to war - I think the secession will happen when people, including the military, no longer accept the legitimacy of Washington.

while i agree with you, you have to understand that many people dont know what you know and for many its their last ditch effort at supporting a politician. If Ron Paul fails that means that the only way forward is a rome-style collapse.

i agree the corruption is so embedded that its almost impossible to change. but we have to try.

If Obama wins, I think that somebody, somewhere in the South may get the gumption to do it. My money is on either Texas or SC, though it's possible that it could actually be somebody in the Southwest.

The more i read, the more i learn, and the more information i expose myself to, and the further i understand philosophical, scientific, and logistical principles, the more a Resource Based Economy seems like a good idea. The truth is... its coming whether we like it or not.

All of the countries are doomed, because they are all based on the same flawed principles... but yes, America at this moment is especially #ed... and no one is going to save it.

Massive global changes are coming. They will come in 1 of 2 ways. Either, we embrace scientific and philosophical understand and make conscious changes for the benefit of all, or, we realize the mistakes weve made after all is said and done, and build up from the rubble. Both are enlightenment, just one is a much nicer journey.

I personally don't see how this could be done on a large enough scale without the government forcibly putting a stop to it. I completely agree with the topic and I've often wondered why I've never seen any sizable group try it and I think it's because it would just be too hard to do.

The only way I could imagine it happening is if the government started declaring whole groups of Americans as terrorists, which seriously could happen, because that's basically what it took for the civil war to occur. The government decided that all slave owners had to give up their slaves and if they wouldn't do it, the government was going to make them. Therefore, the government declared war on them, not the other way around. I think that would be too hard to do. I would like to be wrong about that though, as that means that we don't have any real power.

I realize the TC is talking about a peaceful secession but that seems even more impossible. To clarify, this is what my first statement was in reference to.

reply to post by lampsalot


Anybody who seriously believes in the potential of Ron Paul to repair the damage to the Republic, does not understand the degree to which the Presidency is controlled. If Ron Paul is elected, he will do exclusively as he is told, when he is told, and nothing more. If he objects to this, or attempts any defiance whatsoever, he will be assassinated or otherwise removed in short order.

Americans need to accept the fact that the Jeffersonian Republic has now collapsed; and they need to accept even more, that the reason why this has been permitted to happen, is because in their own character, they refused to emulate that man themselves. They were given a system of government which was eventually proven to exceed their own initiative, intelligence, and integrity; and as a result, it has now been taken from them.

This statement is not made for the purposes of gratuitously offending Americans; quite the contrary. It is simply an acknowledgement of the fact that if they wish for liberty, they need to learn that servility is not compatible with it. You cannot have the desire for your nappy to be changed by someone else on the one hand, and reasonably expect anything remotely resembling genuine freedom on the other.

Originally posted by Indenu
What's next after that?

You need Weaponry to stop anyone invading you, you need a relieable resource for food, water, power
and Prison. Then you need a offical currency

( I would imagine it's alot harder than that really )

There are weapons, always. Food comes from the wilderness silly. There's a lot of animals out there to keep you good for years to come. Water? Well there's snow here so I guess we can heat it up to eliminate anything harmful to drink it. Power, we wouldn't need anything like that, just a simple igloo for warmth and a fire for cooking, drying up, etc. Prisons are for pussies, really unneeded if you help people's problems directly rather than slam them away and dehumanize them. You don't need currency/money either. It's a useless concept and creates greed, pushes people for more power, thief, killings etc.

reply to post by lampsalot


Well, open rebellion will only get folks killed, we just need to exercise our rights is all we have to do.
You are right that Ron Paul will not save us, however he can and has got the message out that there is something wrong!
If you cannot keep up with the rat race, don't race.
Withdraw from the race and get a small piece of land or go in with others for plots of a large one.
Grow and hunt your food, if you own the land, all there is to pay is tax on the land.
If you do not play their game, you do not have to buy all of the crap that comes with it.
Make plans and go do your own thing, folks in the US lived pretty good before walmart was ever here, so can you.
But like I said, open rebellion will just get folks killed before the message is truly out to the mass public.
They will wake up when they hear their babies crying from hunger.
It still can be fixed, as long as we exercise our rights!
Now if they take our rights, the marriage is over, and we goin for alimony, child support, hell we even takin the house in the settlement!

Originally posted by jazzguy
while i agree with you, you have to understand that many people dont know what you know and for many its their last ditch effort at supporting a politician. If Ron Paul fails that means that the only way forward is a rome-style collapse.

i agree the corruption is so embedded that its almost impossible to change. but we have to try.

I agree with you. We have to try- America is worth saving, if we can....

The Soviet Union collapsed because the government over-extended itself. The Soviets, just like us, compromised their core values. They said they were anti-chauvinism but they forced non-Russians to adopt the Russian language and culture. They said they were anti-class but the party became the elite class and everyone else, second class.

The American government claims to value freedom yet they pass sh*t like SOPA and encourage the media and schools to discourage free thought. The American Dream is impossible to realize for most people; the rags-to-riches narrative that makes America what it is.

Oh yeah and the Soviet Union spent nearly ten years in Afghanistan. Sound familiar? So I think in five years, or even less, we will hardly even have an America to secede from.

reply to post by AnIntellectualRedneck


I don't know what's keeping them from doing it.

Knowing SC, they'll steer the country right into electing another buffoon like Gingrich or worse, Romney.

Why not skip the buffoonery and secede? Ditto on TX.

I like the way Cascadia sounds and I wonder if a similar movement would work for the New England states? Doubtful since NH and Maine are ruled by tea partiers at the moment.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Well, open rebellion will only get folks killed, we just need to exercise our rights is all we have to do.
You are right that Ron Paul will not save us, however he can and has got the message out that there is something wrong!
If you cannot keep up with the rat race, don't race.
Withdraw from the race and get a small piece of land or go in with others for plots of a large one.
Grow and hunt your food, if you own the land, all there is to pay is tax on the land.
If you do not play their game, you do not have to buy all of the crap that comes with it.
Make plans and go do your own thing, folks in the US lived pretty good before walmart was ever here, so can you.
But like I said, open rebellion will just get folks killed before the message is truly out to the mass public.
They will wake up when they hear their babies crying from hunger.
It still can be fixed, as long as we exercise our rights!
Now if they take our rights, the marriage is over, and we goin for alimony, child support, hell we even takin the house in the settlement!

Don't go for an open rebellion. Garner support from neighbors and then more from further places. Spread the message of being united to eliminate something that has gone long enough. Once the support is sufficient you boycott the corporations/services which is the first message you send when you mean business. If they don't comply with what is demanded, force will be necessary. No one has to be injured if everything is played smart as in people are taught in the medical area, self-defense, etc. Turn yourself in to mob of gun-carrying justice fighters. Exercising rights really means nothing. Their control is too much, everything can be quickly handled by the people on their payroll so small efforts like that are useless and only waste precious time.

Originally posted by Meaningless

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Well, open rebellion will only get folks killed, we just need to exercise our rights is all we have to do.
You are right that Ron Paul will not save us, however he can and has got the message out that there is something wrong!
If you cannot keep up with the rat race, don't race.
Withdraw from the race and get a small piece of land or go in with others for plots of a large one.
Grow and hunt your food, if you own the land, all there is to pay is tax on the land.
If you do not play their game, you do not have to buy all of the crap that comes with it.
Make plans and go do your own thing, folks in the US lived pretty good before walmart was ever here, so can you.
But like I said, open rebellion will just get folks killed before the message is truly out to the mass public.
They will wake up when they hear their babies crying from hunger.
It still can be fixed, as long as we exercise our rights!
Now if they take our rights, the marriage is over, and we goin for alimony, child support, hell we even takin the house in the settlement!

Don't go for an open rebellion. Garner support from neighbors and then more from further places. Spread the message of being united to eliminate something that has gone long enough. Once the support is sufficient you boycott the corporations/services which is the first message you send when you mean business. If they don't comply with what is demanded, force will be necessary. No one has to be injured if everything is played smart as in people are taught in the medical area, self-defense, etc. Turn yourself in to mob of gun-carrying justice fighters. Exercising rights really means nothing. Their control is too much, everything can be quickly handled by the people on their payroll so small efforts like that are useless and only waste precious time.

No, nonviolent revolution has been shown to work better than armed revolution.

Originally posted by lampsalot

Originally posted by Meaningless

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by lampsalot

 

Well, open rebellion will only get folks killed, we just need to exercise our rights is all we have to do.
You are right that Ron Paul will not save us, however he can and has got the message out that there is something wrong!
If you cannot keep up with the rat race, don't race.
Withdraw from the race and get a small piece of land or go in with others for plots of a large one.
Grow and hunt your food, if you own the land, all there is to pay is tax on the land.
If you do not play their game, you do not have to buy all of the crap that comes with it.
Make plans and go do your own thing, folks in the US lived pretty good before walmart was ever here, so can you.
But like I said, open rebellion will just get folks killed before the message is truly out to the mass public.
They will wake up when they hear their babies crying from hunger.
It still can be fixed, as long as we exercise our rights!
Now if they take our rights, the marriage is over, and we goin for alimony, child support, hell we even takin the house in the settlement!

Don't go for an open rebellion. Garner support from neighbors and then more from further places. Spread the message of being united to eliminate something that has gone long enough. Once the support is sufficient you boycott the corporations/services which is the first message you send when you mean business. If they don't comply with what is demanded, force will be necessary. No one has to be injured if everything is played smart as in people are taught in the medical area, self-defense, etc. Turn yourself in to mob of gun-carrying justice fighters. Exercising rights really means nothing. Their control is too much, everything can be quickly handled by the people on their payroll so small efforts like that are useless and only waste precious time.

No, nonviolent revolution has been shown to work better than armed revolution.

Yeah let's see what we think once they whip of what ever technology they have for the day they try to take over the planet.

Originally posted by Meaningless

Yeah let's see what we think once they whip of what ever technology they have for the day they try to take over the planet.

Failure of imagination I sayeth. If they have a death weapon, our AK-47s and the other guns Americans fantasize about using on a foe will be like throwing pebbles at them in comparison. The only way we could save ourselves is to convince the military and other people with the weapons to turn to our side.

reply to post by lampsalot


I see where you are coming from and you have some very good points. And as a new resident of Washington State this is the first time I have heard of this movement.

However, I have to point out that we are exactly reliving history. The history of the 20s. In fact, the parallels are so close it is rather amazing. But we know what we are going through today, and I won't bore you with what they went through since you and I are experiencing it now. But let me tell you a little story.

Last time this happened there was a small time politician named Huey Long. He told everyone that the big corporations were getting rich while starving the people to death. He advocated a graduated income tax in which the rich paid the most taxes, and though Louisiana had free education, the cost of the textbooks were keeping many children who most needed it from getting an education. He also believed in a redistribution of wealth. This was popular with voters and Huey became the Governor of Louisiana..

Once in the Governor's mansion Huey decided that the oil companies, who were making so much money in Louisiana could afford to pay for the textbooks and a tax was levied. The oil companies refused to pay it. Huey sent in the National Guard to seize the oil wells.

It looked as though Huey was headed for the White House, though it would take a few more years, but his what he was doing for Louisiana had a big appeal across the United States. At any rate, Franklin Delano Roosevelt stepped into the White House and eventually adopted a watered down version.

That brings us to today. The programs, regulations and laws that were put into place by Roosevelt - the New Deal - have been gradually removed. Very little is left. Social Security, though they have been doing their best to monkey with that, is still there as is Unemployment Insurance. But the Glass Steagel act is gone, the regulation of the power and oil companies, tariffs, etc. All the things which were put into place to keep us from getting to the situation - the mess - we are (were) in now (then). Removal of those safeguards has led us straight into what they had been preventing for so long.

Now the moral of the story is that one man did all this to save the country from greed unbridled. And although everyone likes to credit Roosevelt, I think the idea really came from Huey Long.

To my mind this is class warfare, nothing else. It was back then, and it still is today. Somehow though, I just don't see the PTB just letting anyone walk off with Washington State. Not the home of Microsoft, Boeing, and Starbucks. Still the rumble of secessionism off in the distance will get the attention of the lawbenders in Washington.

So can one man change things? No. Can one man with a huge and LOUD following? It did the trick the last time.

Getting late, goodnight all.

reply to post by lampsalot

I'm part of the Cascadia movement

I can't say I'm "part" of the Cascadia movement myself, as I am not sure there is an actual "group" but I am a very big supporter of the principles of the Cadcadia Independence Movement.

capitalism

There's nothing wrong with Capitalism. Corporatism is not the same as Capitalism, and Capitalism is not inherently corrupt.

I think the Occupy movement is gradually going to turn into a revolutionary movement

Is that still around?

And by the way... Ron Paul is an avid supporter of Capitalism.

reply to post by lampsalot
All they have to do is use drones, no death weapon needed. They kill without mercy or regret and wouldn't think twice of taking out major cities if needed to. The best way to cripple what feeds the machine is stop feeding it! yeah they can print money but really that can only go for so long in a busted system with many people aware of it. Cripple them by boycotting everything that feeds them, get the support and demand what's TRULY needed non-violently. If they don't want to share the ball they've been holding on for oh so long then that's when we step up to the bully and show that we won't be enslaved, that they would have to forcefully take us over if they want the life they vision.