Are we inside a black hole?

Are we inside a black hole? I mean is our universe inside a black hole?
Could possibly explain growth of universe, which is possibly "leakage" into the "real" universe.
Is this possible?

Originally posted by BBalazs
Are we inside a black hole? I mean is our universe inside a black hole?
Could possibly explain growth of universe, which is possibly "leakage" into the "real" universe.
Is this possible?

Yes and no. Black holes crush matter so tiny that it becomes dimensionless. The best way to look at it is from a photon's perspective.

When a photon is not moving it vanishes. This is where heisnburg's uncertainty principle comes from. (you can never know the exact location of a photon.) This is because when a photon stops moving, it also has zero mass. And since we say you can't divide by zero (you can), then we get these loop holes in science that make no sense. Calculus is a math that was specifically made to avoid the number 0.

Anyways so imagine being a photon that isn't moving. Where does it go? Why is it that no matter where you look at something realtively that the speed of light remains constant? IF two objects were to go in opposite directions at the speed of light. From their perspective, the speed of light will still remain constant. Why is that?

To avoid going in a long rambling session of proof that you probably can't make sense of, I'll say this:

Our universe is a 6 dimensional universe.

There is length, width, height, time, mind, and dimensionless. Black holes crush matter into the dimensionless. The dimensionless is the link between the dimension of the mind (this is where your mind actually resides), and the world of matter. This can be proven with math. And this explains division by zero, and imaginary numbers, and why you can't find a square root of an negative number.

reply to post by BBalazs

Good ? I think yes

Originally posted by Slavich

Originally posted by BBalazs
Are we inside a black hole? I mean is our universe inside a black hole?
Could possibly explain growth of universe, which is possibly "leakage" into the "real" universe.
Is this possible?

Yes and no. Black holes crush matter so tiny that it becomes dimensionless. The best way to look at it is from a photon's perspective.

When a photon is not moving it vanishes. This is where heisnburg's uncertainty principle comes from. (you can never know the exact location of a photon.) This is because when a photon stops moving, it also has zero mass. And since we say you can't divide by zero (you can), then we get these loop holes in science that make no sense. Calculus is a math that was specifically made to avoid the number 0.

Anyways so imagine being a photon that isn't moving. Where does it go? Why is it that no matter where you look at something realtively that the speed of light remains constant? IF two objects were to go in opposite directions at the speed of light. From their perspective, the speed of light will still remain constant. Why is that?

To avoid going in a long rambling session of proof that you probably can't make sense of, I'll say this:

Our universe is a 6 dimensional universe.

There is length, width, height, time, mind, and dimensionless. Black holes crush matter into the dimensionless. The dimensionless is the link between the dimension of the mind (this is where your mind actually resides), and the world of matter. This can be proven with math. And this explains division by zero, and imaginary numbers, and why you can't find a square root of an negative number.

Yes, but we dont really know what happens in a black hole, do we?
I understand what theory states, but when push comes to shove, we dont actually know what happens inside, or why?
We have a theory, on that it could be above, but we have had theories before and we were wrong.

Interesting thoughts, what is real or not is subjective to the obverser. SO along those lines here some cool ideas for you

I belive that the word universe should and does mean absolutly everything, everywhere at any gieven moment.

I could imagine its all about scale, what we might call a different universe because its laws ruling that scale are different to those above and below, is in fact just further up or down the same scale - time changing to the percever perhaps too.

Black holes are compressing matter in our scale down to a sub unvirseal scale, both as real as each other and to a tiny being on that scale each unirvse might seem just as big to it.

The big bang was just a scale of the univrse that grew too compressed and reset the cycle, planets, suns galaxies and black holes, slowy but surly gathering it all back up again.

Now for the scale idea to work, all the matter time and space on our scale including the big bang before and after could all just be one atom to another universal scale much MUCH larger than what we can percive, just one tiny molecule in size perhaps part of another being so incomprehensivly huge (to us).

Perhaps this is why its so hard for scientists to describe and study quantum mechanics, when things get super big or super small - things get weird and "laws" are bent or broken.

Think along the lines of fractal images, never ending repeating patterns, only instead of pretty colours and shapes, building blocks of realitys.

Originally posted by BBalazs

Originally posted by Slavich

Originally posted by BBalazs
Are we inside a black hole? I mean is our universe inside a black hole?
Could possibly explain growth of universe, which is possibly "leakage" into the "real" universe.
Is this possible?

Yes and no. Black holes crush matter so tiny that it becomes dimensionless. The best way to look at it is from a photon's perspective.

When a photon is not moving it vanishes. This is where heisnburg's uncertainty principle comes from. (you can never know the exact location of a photon.) This is because when a photon stops moving, it also has zero mass. And since we say you can't divide by zero (you can), then we get these loop holes in science that make no sense. Calculus is a math that was specifically made to avoid the number 0.

Anyways so imagine being a photon that isn't moving. Where does it go? Why is it that no matter where you look at something realtively that the speed of light remains constant? IF two objects were to go in opposite directions at the speed of light. From their perspective, the speed of light will still remain constant. Why is that?

To avoid going in a long rambling session of proof that you probably can't make sense of, I'll say this:

Our universe is a 6 dimensional universe.

There is length, width, height, time, mind, and dimensionless. Black holes crush matter into the dimensionless. The dimensionless is the link between the dimension of the mind (this is where your mind actually resides), and the world of matter. This can be proven with math. And this explains division by zero, and imaginary numbers, and why you can't find a square root of an negative number.

Yes, but we dont really know what happens in a black hole, do we?
I understand what theory states, but when push comes to shove, we dont actually know what happens inside, or why?
We have a theory, on that it could be above, but we have had theories before and we were wrong.

Nothing happens in a black hole. It is simply matter going from 4 dimensions into a dimensionless state. Or do you honestly think the laws of physics cease to exist? Our universe is governed by mathematics.

Originally posted by Biigs
Interesting thoughts, what is real or not is subjective to the obverser. SO along those lines here some cool ideas for you

I belive that the word universe should and does mean absolutly everything, everywhere at any gieven moment.

I could imagine its all about scale, what we might call a different universe because its laws ruling that scale are different to those above and below, is in fact just further up or down the same scale - time changing to the percever perhaps too.

Black holes are compressing matter in our scale down to a sub unvirseal scale, both as real as each other and to a tiny being on that scale each unirvse might seem just as big to it.

The big bang was just a scale of the univrse that grew too compressed and reset the cycle, planets, suns galaxies and black holes, slowy but surly gathering it all back up again.

Now for the scale idea to work, all the matter time and space on our scale including the big bang before and after could all just be one atom to another universal scale much MUCH larger than what we can percive, just one tiny molecule in size perhaps part of another being so incomprehensivly huge (to us).

Think along the lines of fractal images, never ending repeating patterns, only instead of pretty colours and shapes, building blocks of realitys.

edit on 22-1-2012 by Biigs because: spelling

The most simple answer is often the correct one. If we are going to have multiple dimensions to explain existance, then it would only make sense to do it in the fewest amount of dimensions possible. This number is 6.

reply to post by Slavich


I dont like impossibilities, there are no such things.
Mathmatics does not "govern" the universe. It is a law made up by man.
I think the universe cares little about math, or as much as about anything else.
It governs itself, and our understanding is always imperfect.
It is not a touchy feely thing that cares to be governed, yet alone by man.
Anyway, lets make it work.
Can we use string theory or chaos theory?
How do we make this work?

Ps: side quote, havent the laws of physics seized to function at least once before? ;-)

Originally posted by Slavich

Originally posted by BBalazs
Are we inside a black hole? I mean is our universe inside a black hole?
Could possibly explain growth of universe, which is possibly "leakage" into the "real" universe.
Is this possible?

Yes and no. Black holes crush matter so tiny that it becomes dimensionless. The best way to look at it is from a photon's perspective.

When a photon is not moving it vanishes. This is where heisnburg's uncertainty principle comes from. (you can never know the exact location of a photon.) This is because when a photon stops moving, it also has zero mass. And since we say you can't divide by zero (you can), then we get these loop holes in science that make no sense. Calculus is a math that was specifically made to avoid the number 0.

Anyways so imagine being a photon that isn't moving. Where does it go? Why is it that no matter where you look at something realtively that the speed of light remains constant? IF two objects were to go in opposite directions at the speed of light. From their perspective, the speed of light will still remain constant. Why is that?

To avoid going in a long rambling session of proof that you probably can't make sense of, I'll say this:

Our universe is a 6 dimensional universe.

There is length, width, height, time, mind, and dimensionless. Black holes crush matter into the dimensionless. The dimensionless is the link between the dimension of the mind (this is where your mind actually resides), and the world of matter. This can be proven with math. And this explains division by zero, and imaginary numbers, and why you can't find a square root of an negative number.

Wow, I ended up visualizing a proton moving and stopping after reading this and my first thought is perhaps a proton is just force moving through the fabric of time. At the level of a black hole, everything would be all. Much like the notion that the creator is everything, a black hole would be kind of the same way. All mass inside is one giant atom.

Kind of mind boggling where it leads me although, I am just basing on movement of forces....

A cool thought if nothing else.

reply to post by Biigs


Kind of what i was thinking:-)
After all no one has been in a black hole or near one to actually descripe it.
Also, even observation is debatable.

SERIOUSLY: we need to get out of this black hole!;-) to see the "real" universe.

reply to post by BBalazs


Well thats the catch. The only things that can carry information directly to us for us to examine, simply dont work at levels smaller than the smallest thing you are using to detect them in the first place, and on the other end of the scale, things so big that one partical of "big scale" matter is too big to be detected by us, or too far away.

This is why everything VERY big, VERY old or VERY small is mostly all theroys, perhaps some never ever provable.

Im not syaing this is whats goin on and im no stranger to common thoughts as to the big questions, a scientist has to dream before he can discover imo.

reply to post by Slavich


In regard to a 6 dimensional universe, string theorists have used multiple dimensions to explain the observed physical universe.

As they have added additional dimensions, the numbers coming from their maths have come closer and closer to the values observed.

At present, the scientific consensus is that there are at least 11 dimensions, although some have suggested even 27 dimensions.

6 dimensions is inadequate to explain all we observe.

The intense gravitation of a black hole and super-relativistic effects of such gravitation would most likely be an indicator of the fact that we were in a black hole. We do not seem to see such effects.

Our reality could also exist as a hologram on the event horizon of a singularity (which has been discussed several times), but we are unlikely to be able to determine if such was the case.

reply to post by Biigs


Yes, but we can dream the dream and live the dream.
Dont work, you mean we have no theory, rigth?
What do you think of this "leakage"...it could really explain why the universe is expanding....?
Is it just leaking out of the black hole?
Is there any way to prove it?
Even theoritically?

reply to post by chr0naut


Wow. Thanks.
I guess we have no idea what these extra dimensions are, right?
Could part of it be chaos principle type dimension?
Could one be code?
Could one be remains of the black hole collapse leftover type radioation memory?

reply to post by BBalazs


Well, with my scalerverse, i can belive in one universe and that 'multiple universes' while being a totally alien enviroment compared to our own, actually do exist - just somwhere along the scale, endless in both directions - rather than being an actual other place.

So the black holes ARE sending our matter somwhere else, but in size not location, its not 'gone' its just different.

Makes you wonder what would happen if a supper massive black hole's singularity all the sudden lost all of it's gravity. Would such an occurance and release of energy create another universe? Perhaps our known universe is the result of a black hole all the sudden releasing it's energy due to loss of the gravity that holds the black hole together. Niw we just need to discover and understand what conditions or events that might occur to allow such a release of gravity to occur.

Maybe we are a part of an expanding failed black hole.

reply to post by Biigs

Very circular.
Does it really make an differnce to you theory if there is one universe or multiple, it seems not.
What would be the breakthrough needed for the other universes to "count"?

Your scaleoverse kind of reminds me of science history.
First water, atom, electrons and so on.
We may just get there somehow.

reply to post by BBalazs


I suppose they are the same thing really.

The word Universe has slightly different meaning to different people, for me it really does mean everything from the big bang to the edge of the furthest information/matter, this some 14 billion years later. This is our obverseable universe, and this is what it means to most people.

Now if the scale was to go up way above what we consider our universe (using the above meaning), there is another bing bang that we cant see because its huge or distant, would that be considered in our universe still?

Fact is we only have so much data, because its not a limitless flow of data we know it started at a finite point in time. But only from that data we have, we can see and deduce from studying closer matter and data even more and make calculated guesses as to how things work up the scale and down the scale.

If black holes, or any other cosmic device, squirt our compressed matter somwhere, like a seperate and unralted universe, where or how would it exist, what do you think?

Im gunna not post any more here, PM me if youd like, i dont want to clog up your thread with too many of my (though similer) thoughts.

Apparently I am not the first to think that we are living in a black hole.
Phew;-)
Legitimate science links:
www.popsci.com...
news.nationalgeographic.com...
www.thenakedscientists.com...



Wow, i am rephrashing question: are we in a black hole within a blackhole?
Just kidding;-)

Originally posted by chr0naut
reply to post by Slavich

 

In regard to a 6 dimensional universe, string theorists have used multiple dimensions to explain the observed physical universe.

As they have added additional dimensions, the numbers coming from their maths have come closer and closer to the values observed.

At present, the scientific consensus is that there are at least 11 dimensions, although some have suggested even 27 dimensions.

6 dimensions is inadequate to explain all we observe.

The intense gravitation of a black hole and super-relativistic effects of such gravitation would most likely be an indicator of the fact that we were in a black hole. We do not seem to see such effects.

Our reality could also exist as a hologram on the event horizon of a singularity (which has been discussed several times), but we are unlikely to be able to determine if such was the case.

edit on 22/1/2012 by chr0naut because: (no reason given)

Um no 6 dimensions explains everything. Name one thing it can't explain and I'll tell you how it does.