Why a war with Iran is necessary should talking fail.

Originally posted by xpert11
reply to post by Drunkenshrew

 

Iran has more then shown its hatred for Israel . Tyrants will sometimes make public there intend. Hitler warned that he intended to invade the Soviet Union in his book Mein Kampf. Appeasement only brings about destruction.

There passes hardly a day, on which no Israeli or US politician, journalist or intellectual calls for military action against another Middle Eastern country. Your former presidential candidate even gleefully sung a song about bombing Iran.



So to use Iranian rhetoric and the “shown hatred” as a justification for a preemptive war shows an incredible ability to practice doublethink and apply a double standard.

Also it is really a pathetic tactic to invoke Hitler and Chamberlain. The enemies of the US empire and Israel are always subhuman monsters, as evil as Hitler. Hitler was Hitler. But Castro is not Hitler, Chavez is not Hitler, Gaddafi was not Hitler and Ahmadinejad is also no Hitler. Those “new Hitlers” inexplicable always want to pounce on the US and Israel , never on other countries like for example Denmark, Zimbabwe or New Zealand.

But: When has one of those new Hitlers ever attacked the United States or Israel? Hitler was not only expressing his hatred, he was also investing a huge amount of resources to rearm Germany.

Here are some numbers you should take a loot at and think about:

Military spending:

USA: 687,105,000,000 US$ = 4.7% of GDP
Israel: 13,001,000,000 US$ = 6.3% of GDP
Iran: 7,044,000,000 US$ = 1.8% of GDP

en.wikipedia.org...

"...should talking fail."

You know, I could not think of an approach we had not tried. When I read the title of this thread, I realized that we forgot the "talking" bit.

Is "forgot" the right word, or is that the one thing that US and Israeli governments have steadfastly refused to do?

reply to post by seagull

Think about that. Ponder that for a moment. Men, women, children... Burned away in an instant. Their sole crime? Leaders so blinded by ideology/religion (fanatics, really...) that they can't/won't talk to each other...

WE are just backing are leaders whether you like it or not.

And the illusion of Atomic Iran is just like the illusion of Saddam having and deploying WMD

or

The false flag about Afghanistan to invade to kill OBL.





illuminati runs your country and yet , you blame Iran.

Wake up before it's too late

Before another nation's blood on your hands.

Hell be with war-mongers

reply to post by Drunkenshrew


These retarded war-mongers think that Iran is just like another poor nations who couldn't communicate world wide.

I'll be right here on ATS with pictures and NEWS from my country , Iran.

WE will never give up our country to Zionist and Multinational corporation owners.

reply to post by seagull

Please understand this, my friends... I don't want an armed conflict with Iran. But our options are shrinking daily..

I've never seen friend plan to kill each other unless there is hypocrisy behind it.

I can't believe no one has posted this clip yet. (If it was mentioned in text, my apologies)
www.youtube.com...

This has been on the agenda for a LONG TIME, there's no denying that. Why do you think that is?
And what happened to M.A.D? (Mutual Assured Destruction) That worked for us in the cold war for over thirty years with the Soviets. Is it because "they're terrorists argument? Well that's fine for the individual "mad bomber" but what about their families? Not even psychos wish to see their mother, father, sisters, brothers, nor even the family dog burst into flame at 10K Fahrenheit. No one is that insane, no one.

And then you have the whole 12th Iman aspect. The whole purpose for Iran wishing a war with Israel, (which I truly believe they want, make no mistake in that) is to become the reigning power in the M.E. so their "Messiah" will reside there! (This is THEIR beliefs, not mine) He can't reside there if Iran is a glass parking lot.

It's regime change is all it is, plain & simple. Or, if you believe the more nefarious nature of man, it's a backdoor attack AGAINST Israel (for their Leviathan oil fields) by destabilizing the M.E. in the first place. (Why else is Al Cia duh flags flying in Egypt as we speak when, for the most part we had a pro=west leader there, (corrupt as he was) for over thirty years.

IOW, there's SO MUCH MORE here then just a simple "Iran may have nukes argument, sorry.

Iran's WMD's......
i've heard this before haven't i?

How did that work out again?

oh yeah...... bad intel..... sorry about that.....

lets not be under any illusion here......

" we've come for your oil chuck "

peak oil?.....seems like it to me........

Makes absolutely no sense, America is sitting at nearly 15 trillion since the war on terror has taken over this socialist country. A war with Iran would break not only backs of the American people, but our current government, as there is no way America could rebuild Iran, on top of Iraq, and Afghanistan, and have forces not only rebuild, but have service members there for say what another 10 years. All the while who is paying for the war???




No, the American people should revisit George Washington in his fair-wail address, when he spoke about

American people to take advantage of their isolated position in the world, and avoid attachments and entanglements in foreign affairs, especially those of Europe, which he argues have little or nothing to do with the interests of America. He argues that it makes no sense for the American people to wage war on European soil when their isolated position and unity will allow them to remain neutral and focus on their own affairs.

Own affairs need to be in order ya think, before this country implodes from within due to ignorance, animosity, and loathsomeness

Funny enough the US had no problem whatsoever to give WMDs to Iran while the fascist dictator installed by them, the Shah, ruled there. Neither did they have a problem with giving WMDs to Iraq, while the fascist dictator they installed there to fight Iran, Sadam Hussein, was still their good boy.
Maybe it would be a good idea not to support fascism worldwide and install dictators left and right...just a thought.

Before there was an Isreal, we had no enemies in the middle east.

Why stop there? Canada has a lot of oil!

Let's invade them too.

Admit it, those cooky Canadians are an accident waiting to happen. Free healthcare? Are they freaking Socialist up there?! I say we liberate them in the name of peace and Democracy. Really, when you think about it, it's only the right thing to do, eh?

Who's with me?

Originally posted by hmdphantom
reply to post by seagull

 

Please understand this, my friends... I don't want an armed conflict with Iran. But our options are shrinking daily..

I've never seen friend plan to kill each other unless there is hypocrisy behind it.

Perhaps this kind of thinking is normal for a self-designated “reformed hawk”, who sees no irony in calling a preemptive war a necessity.

It is astonishing. Those warmongers are lied into one war after the other. Usually those lies are exposed, before the war has even started. When they later find out, what the truth really is, they become angry. They walk around infuriated and proclaim: “No one could have known this beforehand!”, and “How could they lie to us!”

Nonetheless they obediently fall for the next scam. They don't investigate phony allegations. Instead they prefer to trust their gut-feeling and their leaders. To convince themselves, they even make up their own facts. Like: "Iran is increasingly seeking to acquire WMDs."

Originally posted by seagull

...Iran's possession of nukes will all but guarantee a conflict with nuclear armed Israel.

Possibly, but on the flip side It was the very idea of mutual annihilation which made arch rivals the USA & the USSR finally sit down and talk, culminating in Glasnost and the destruction of the Berlin wall and the Iron Curtain.

Good thread, but I hope you are proved wrong.

I'm going to try this one more time.

Yes, reformed hawk. Were I an actual hawk, I would have said something along the lines of "Blow 'em all up, then sow the ashes with salt... Repeat as necessary." Or words to that effect.

No where, on this thread, or any where else, have I advocated the cessation of negotiation. As long as they're talking, the bombs aren't falling. This is a good thing.

The two views of Iran are thus: 1) They're peaceful, and wish only to pursue peaceful uses of Nuclear Energy.

2) That alongside this peaceful pursuit, they're clandestinely pursuing the means to produce nuclear weapons.

I actually agree with both those views. I don't actually think Iran would use the damned things should they indeed be pursuing that avenue... But they don't need to use them, or even have them, for it to be a destabilizing threat to the region at large, and the world in general. The mere threat of them having them is enough to do it.

If this were some island nation in the middle of the Pacific pursuing this agenda, I'd have less of an issue with it, but Iran is smack dab in the middle of most politically volatile, and economically important, region on Earth. Hence, the concern on the part of nations dependent upon the regions most important export.

*Gasp!!* Did I just imply it was about oil? OMG!! They're going to revoke my hawk card...

Of course it's about oil, with other reasons trailing behind. I wish it weren't, but it is. The global economy now, and for the foreseeable future, runs on the stuff. A destabilized region make the movement of oil difficult, and expensive.

Just to reiterate, for those of you who can't seem to get it... I don't want to see this. I'd just as soon it be handled peacefully at the bargaining table. With both sides, to a point, getting what they want. Or being equally unhappy with the results. After all, the art of successful negotiations is leaving both sides equally unhappy.

Again... I don't want this to happen. But it may need to.

reply to post by McGinty

Good thread, but I hope you are proved wrong.

God, yes, I hope I'm wrong. I'd eat that crow without salt, and think it was delicious. I'm not sure where people are getting the notion that I want millions to die. ...and many millions of others to suffer the aftermath.

I'm not the second coming of Genghis Khan, and Stalin all rolled into one, after all. I'm merely expressing my fear driven opinion. Hoping all the while to be proven wrong.

Originally posted by nineix
What I think is interesting, if you remember back to when India demonstrated Nuclear weapons ability, quickly followed by Pakistan celebrating demonstration of it's own nuclear weapons readiness, the rest of the world got REALLY quiet and respectful of India and Pakistan.

That's because they cancelled each other out. Both had them and so neither would use them. All's quite on the Middle-Eastern front.

The question is, would Israel's nukes have the same effect on Iran's weapons or would Israel cancel Iran out? ...literally!

Originally posted by CrikeyMagnet
"...should talking fail."

You know, I could not think of an approach we had not tried. When I read the title of this thread, I realized that we forgot the "talking" bit.

Is "forgot" the right word, or is that the one thing that US and Israeli governments have steadfastly refused to do?

For starters, Iran was asked three months ago to start talks again, and as of a report I read this morning, they still have not responded. I guess we'll have to wait and see if they ever make an official response to the P5+1.

Originally posted by seagull
reply to post by McGinty

 

Good thread, but I hope you are proved wrong.

God, yes, I hope I'm wrong. I'd eat that crow without salt, and think it was delicious. I'm not sure where people are getting the notion that I want millions to die. ...and many millions of others to suffer the aftermath.

I'm not the second coming of Genghis Khan, and Stalin all rolled into one, after all. I'm merely expressing my fear driven opinion. Hoping all the while to be proven wrong.

I imagine the inevitability of Iran + Nukes = War has made folks reactions equally fear-driven.

What i'd say though, is that there is president for these situations to end peacefully. Nothing is ever really inevitable, not even taxes (if you're a Wall Street Banker with a good accountant)

'Israel will have kittens. ...Iran's possession of nukes will all but guarantee a conflict with nuclear armed Israel. Israeli paranoia, and its inevitable expression in the form of an attack such as the one on Iraq's in the 80's, and more recently on Syria's, would seem to be something to avoid...'


So why not work diplomaticaly on a nuclear armed Israel to not attack someone for wanting what they themselves already have?

reply to post by Deetermined


Would YOU personally wish to talk with someone who tried to set this bit of false flag info up?

articles.cnn.com...:US

I mean seriously, it's insulting. Why would Iran waste their time? They know how we feel about them, the only thing "talking" would do is give US more chances to get another soundbite we could plaster over the state run media, and thus use it as a warcry to invade or target Iran even further.

IMO they're doing the smart thing, keeping their mouth shut. I wouldn't waste my time "talking" to an enemy that wanted my head on a platter either.