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U.S. Churches groups forced to give Birth Control by Government

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posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 09:07 AM
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Originally posted by OhZone

Originally posted by colbe
FlyersFan,

I wish people would see God's plan as He has laid it out. All those
thinking oh yes, abortion is evil but there's nothing wrong with
Birth Control. To everybody who misunderstands God's teaching
on birth control. I am not making fun, it's God's choice, He decides
life and death. That's easy.


Would you like to tell us exactly how you know "God's plan"?
Where exactly does God say that abortion is evil?
Belief Systems are and have always been higly irrational.
When the results of anyone's Belief System encroaches upon the lives of other people their rights end.
If they have not the common sense to stop then government has to step in to stop them.
This is where the Constituion should be amended. That "free practice" of relligion is being abused to the detriment of the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness of others.

Yes, the world is overpopulated. Yes, the US is overpopulated. We are running out of room for our garbage.
Stuff in the Landfill areas are leaching into the ground water.
Our sewage systems are unable to properly process all that comes into them resulting in much overflow into our rivers, lakes and oceans. ALL of our waterways are polluted. There is no stream, even in the wildest wild that is safe to drink.


That's an easy one OhZone.

God's Fifth Commandment

Thou shalt not kill.

The world isn't overpopulated, that is a myth. Everyone in the world
can fit into the state of Texas. God said be fruitful and multiply, you
gotta trust Him.


God bless,

colbe




posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
[quoteOriginally posted by Annee
It is a hospital - - with specific purpose to treat the sick.

.... in a Catholic atmosphere and within the guidelines of the Catholic church.

I would hate to think employment was based on religious belief.

No one said that.
*************************

So EMPLOYMENT is not based on religious belief.

Yet the HEALTHCARE of those employees IS based on religious belief?

Seems to me someone is walking a very fine line here.
edit on 23-1-2012 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by colbe
The world isn't overpopulated, that is a myth. Everyone in the world
can fit into the state of Texas.


This is just PURE ignorance!

If all we did was stand shoulder to shoulder, then yeah, we wouldn't take up much room. But what about our resources? What about all it takes to live? Crops, landfills, fresh water, shelters, stores, cities... A growing population becomes unsustainable.

You should get your head out of the bible and read some facts for a change. The world is overpopulated and will not sustain the growing population.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Originally posted by colbe
The world isn't overpopulated, that is a myth. Everyone in the world
can fit into the state of Texas.


This is just PURE ignorance!

If all we did was stand shoulder to shoulder, then yeah, we wouldn't take up much room. But what about our resources? What about all it takes to live? Crops, landfills, fresh water, shelters, stores, cities... A growing population becomes unsustainable.

You should get your head out of the bible and read some facts for a change. The world is overpopulated and will not sustain the growing population.


THANK YOU for that response!

VERY well said.

S4U



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 07:37 PM
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Originally posted by anthonygillespie2012

U.S. Churches groups forced to give Birth Control by Government


us.m.yahoo .com

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration on Friday ruled that religiously affiliated nonprofit organizations, including hospitals and universities, will have to offer birth-control coverage to women employees but gave the organizations an extra year to comply.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:


Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
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edit on 21-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)


"The government's decision does not apply to churches, synagogues, mosques, temples and some religiously-affiliated elementary and secondary schools, which remain exempt."

From the article.



posted on Jan, 23 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by HattoriHanzou

"The government's decision does not apply to churches, synagogues, mosques, temples and some religiously-affiliated elementary and secondary schools, which remain exempt."

From the article.


Yea, So, how does that apply to the topic of the thread?

This thread is about NON-christian rights being trampled by christian people.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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We told you so....

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 08:04 AM
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I said I was out of the discussion but since you sent a U2U about your posting I'll respond to this post ...


Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
A Catholic hospital is a social service provider, not a church.

A Catholic hospital is an outreach that is based under the Church umbrella.
It can NOT be called a 'Catholic' hospital if it is forced to do things against the Catholic faith.
It has a right to run it's Church based outreach outreach as it sees fit.

There is a 'church' as in a church buildling and then there is a 'Church' as in a religion and organization. The Catholic Church is a religion and an organization. Just because the Church is participating in an outreach that isn't in a building that has stained glass and a steeple, doesn't make it any less of a Church based outreach that comes under the Church umbrella.

BH ... following your logic it would mean that the Salvation Army could be sued by homeless Jewish people because, in their non-church-looking-building soup kitchens, their religion doesn't provide kosher meals.

(and yes, the Salvation Army is a Church group ... a religion even recognized by the government.)


Originally posted by vogon42
This thread is about NON-christian rights being trampled by christian people.

No. Its about people working at a CATHOLIC hospital and wanting the CATHOLIC hospital to go against it's religion to provide health care which provides for abortions and birth control . It's about RELIGIOUS RIGHTS. People know what to expect when they agree to work for the Catholic Church. If they don't like it, they can work elsewhere.

Again .. I'm out of the discussion.
edit on 1/24/2012 by FlyersFan because: typo



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:02 PM
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It is obvious to me that some of you do not understand the issue. Religions or Churches or Temples or whatever...are NON-TAXABLE orginizations for the sole purpose of Religious worship and money collection.

My personal opinion is the money they collect should be taxed...but it's not...and that is the law of the land. Just as it is that anyone who lives in the United States may have a Freedom Of Religion.

A Catholic Hospital is a CORPORATE ENTITY that does not fall under the guidelines of Non-Taxable and much money is made and most of the money collected by these hospitals comes from State Funded Medicare or Medicaid as well as Huge Healthcare Insurance Corps.

It is the RIGHT or the STATE whether or not to grant an aspiring Corp. or Group to obtain the licensing to Build and Opperate a HOSPITAL. JUST THE STATE and any other overlooking Federal Agencies.

A RELIGIOUS GROUP has NO SAY WHAT SO EVER in what an individual State or Federal Goverment Agency or Legislative Body determines what the code of conduct must be for all HOSPITALS!

The Hospital is allowed to opperate and make money soley at the discretion of the state and federal goverment.

Now if a specific Religious named or say Catholic Hospital were to do specific procedures for FREE...and only for free...they they would be allowed to determine what they will or will not do. Split Infinity



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by SplitInfinity
 

It may be that I don't understand the issue either. I'm always confused.

Your post makes a powerful statement for the idea that the state has the right to require churches to do this. It may be that the question will be examined by the Supreme Court, but let's assume for the moment that you're correct and that will continue to be the applicable regulation. (And as you know, regulations are easily changed.)

But is it the right thing to do? Remember that Obama received the majority of Catholic votes in '08, it doesn't look so easy in 2012. Even the liberal Catholic Bishops and Cardinals are upset with him about this. Their parishoners won't be happy, but the Republicans will be when they pick up those extra voters.

Secondly, and something that Obama usually forgets, what will be the results of this decision? Either the leaders of the Church go against their beliefs on a question of grave moral error, or......

The best guess now is that they stop providing any insurance at all. This means Obamacare has to pick up these new people. It also means that the church-run hospital will be fined. The hospital will have less money to operate with and will start shutting down services, maybe closing entirely. More people on Obamacare, fewer resources to treat them. Is there anything good that comes out of this?



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by SplitInfinity
 

It may be that I don't understand the issue either. I'm always confused.

Your post makes a powerful statement for the idea that the state has the right to require churches to do this. It may be that the question will be examined by the Supreme Court, but let's assume for the moment that you're correct and that will continue to be the applicable regulation. (And as you know, regulations are easily changed.)

But is it the right thing to do? Remember that Obama received the majority of Catholic votes in '08, it doesn't look so easy in 2012. Even the liberal Catholic Bishops and Cardinals are upset with him about this. Their parishoners won't be happy, but the Republicans will be when they pick up those extra voters.

Secondly, and something that Obama usually forgets, what will be the results of this decision? Either the leaders of the Church go against their beliefs on a question of grave moral error, or......

The best guess now is that they stop providing any insurance at all. This means Obamacare has to pick up these new people. It also means that the church-run hospital will be fined. The hospital will have less money to operate with and will start shutting down services, maybe closing entirely. More people on Obamacare, fewer resources to treat them. Is there anything good that comes out of this?


I thank you for understanding. People have this misconception that the Doctors and Nurses that work at a Catholic Hospital are under any constraints other than State and Federal law...they are not. Just because the Vatican decides it needs a new CASH COW....pulls a few hundred Million out of their front pocket...slaps a sign on a Hospital that claims it is Religious in nature...has no bearing on what are legal viable procedures in the state or U.S. For a short period of time in Mass....where I live...and by the way we all have Healthcare....and those who cannot afford it get it free....those who can...pay less than most other states as there are many programs...and it works very well...and believe it or not...our once REPUBLICAN GOVERNER ROMNEY signed UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE into law in Mass.....for a short time a Catholic Hospital would let the Mother Die rather than ABORT the Fetus. This is no longer so and the Mothers health is paramount unless the baby is brought to term and SHE chooses to die to let the child live.

People must understand that CHURCHES or TEMPLES or MOSQUES are places of worship and money making machines for the RELIGIOUS ELITTE! Split Infinity



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 03:23 PM
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Well some religious organizations view the use of birth control as a sin.. Therefore offering this would circumvent their baseline doctrines..

I understand all individuals here supporting the use of birth control but forcing religious organizations to go against their core beliefs is a violation of the 1st amendment. Sad but true.



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:11 PM
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Originally posted by DaMod
Well some religious organizations view the use of birth control as a sin.. Therefore offering this would circumvent their baseline doctrines..

I understand all individuals here supporting the use of birth control but forcing religious organizations to go against their core beliefs is a violation of the 1st amendment. Sad but true.


I agree that it would be a violation of their rights but a HOSPITAL IS NOT A CHURCH nor is it a religious institution. It is a CORPORATE ENTITY THAT PAYS TAXES....just like any other hospital. Just because you put a sign on it stating it is a religious hospital does nothing to change the fact that it must abide by the laws rules and regulations that ALL HOSPITALS must abide by.

By your logic...if my religion said it was ok to borrow my buddies car and crash it...I don't have to pay for his damages if insurance doesn't cover it....is the same logic you are useing for Religious Hospitals not obeying State and Federal Laws. We have Freedom of Religion...so do the Doctors who opperate....but that does not mean that a CORPORATE ENTITY...because a HOSPITAL is not a church or temple...can just skirt the law.
Split Infinity



posted on Jan, 24 2012 @ 04:58 PM
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Here are BHO's lying words spoken at Notre Dame. Shame on whoever
invited Obama to speak. Notre Dame is a Catholic college in name only.

= = =

In his May 2009 speech, President Obama expressed a desire to “work through these conflicts” over issues like abortion and stem cells, in order to “join hands in common effort.”

“Maybe we won’t agree on abortion,” the president proposed. “Let’s honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion and draft a sensible conscience clause and make sure that all of our health-care policies are grounded in clear ethics and sound science, as well as respect for the equality of women.

Read more: www.ncregister.com...



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by vogon42
 


No, it's not. The topic is: "U.S. Churches groups forced to give Birth Control by Government."



posted on Jan, 26 2012 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by colbe

Here are BHO's lying words spoken at Notre Dame. Shame on whoever
invited Obama to speak. Notre Dame is a Catholic college in name only.

= = =

In his May 2009 speech, President Obama expressed a desire to “work through these conflicts” over issues like abortion and stem cells, in order to “join hands in common effort.”

“Maybe we won’t agree on abortion,” the president proposed. “Let’s honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion and draft a sensible conscience clause and make sure that all of our health-care policies are grounded in clear ethics and sound science, as well as respect for the equality of women.

Read more: www.ncregister.com...


Sounds more like a carefully couched response. He never said "People who do not agree with abortion will not be forced to pay for it..."



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 08:42 AM
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Looks like Obama stepped in and resolved the issue.

www.cnn.com...

So now employees WILL be able to receive preventative health care.

This is much better than these employees being denied it based on religious beliefs of OTHERS.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by anthonygillespie2012

U.S. Churches groups forced to give Birth Control by Government


us.m.yahoo .com

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Obama administration on Friday ruled that religiously affiliated nonprofit organizations, including hospitals and universities, will have to offer birth-control coverage to women employees but gave the organizations an extra year to comply.
(visit the link for the full news article)


Related News Links:


Related AboveTopSecret.com Discussion Threads:
none
edit on 21-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)



The Catholics are waging a HOLY WAR against the dictator in chief Obama.

Obama will lose this one.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Originally posted by colbe
Can't be compared to birth
control and abortion, both involve murder.


How is using a condom equivalent to murder?




edit on 11-2-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer.



posted on Feb, 11 2012 @ 11:51 AM
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Originally posted by DaMod
Well some religious organizations view the use of birth control as a sin.. Therefore offering this would circumvent their baseline doctrines..



Then they shouldn't run a business with employees not of their belief.

This is a business - - it is not a church.

IMO - - it is equivalent to the counselor who was fired for not counseling a Lesbian - - because of her personal belief. Her job was to counsel. Her belief can not interfere with the job she was hired to do.
edit on 11-2-2012 by Annee because: (no reason given)



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