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U.S. Churches groups forced to give Birth Control by Government

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posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 07:42 AM
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Birth control is:

Preventative Medical Care



Like a colonoscopy, a physical exam, many blood tests, breast cancer screening, etc. Preventative care brings down costs and is covered by most insurance providers. Preventing the pregnancy of an unwanted child is the right thing to do... Unless you want the abortion rate to stay where it is or rise...

The only reason it hasn't been covered before is because it's strictly a women's issue and because of religious objections. Well, this is a secular state with secular laws.

It's time to curb the religious interference in our laws. Religion doesn't have a right to dictate legislation.




posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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Originally posted by colbe
I wish people would see God's plan as He has laid it out. All those
thinking oh yes, abortion is evil but there's nothing wrong with
Birth Control. To everybody who misunderstands God's teaching
on birth control. I am not making fun, it's God's choice, He decides
life and death. That's easy.


If God has a plan for life and death, then he could easily make birth control fail when he see's fit.
By that logic, abstinance and chastity should be banned too. After all, you're messing up God's plan if he want's you preganant by you're not doing to the deed and can't become so.

If It's Gods choice, then nothing we'd do would make a difference, because our actions wouldn't change what he wants. Since our actions do change what happens, it'd be safe to assume, that he's not making those specific decisions, and it's up to us to decide how we see fit.


Originally posted by colbe

Do you want to arrive at your particular judgment at death to hear
it from God Himself? No! My parents had 10 children because they
accepted God's revelation on contraception.


As far as the bible goes, unless you completely miss the point of certain stories, there's nothing being said against contraception. So, I don't know where that 'revelation' comes from.

Are you saying you believe in enforcing, what you belief to be, God's will on others? Or are you personally saying what you believe? Because, as unfounded as I may see your beliefs to be, go ahead and believe them. What I'm against, is the aspect of anyone forcing their beliefs on others. Which is essentially what this topic is about.


Originally posted by colbe
Obama said a "pregnancy" is a punishment. Marxist Muslim. He
isn't Christian. Pray for his conversion...


I'd like to see the exact quote, in context. However, "Marxist Muslim" is both a ridiculous and unfounded accusation. Also, not being a christian isn't in itself a bad thing. Though, as far as his public actions, there's no reason to assume he isn't.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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reply to post by anthonygillespie2012
 


well, tell ya something.....

I have a deep, firm belief that no one can write rules, laws or in any other way try to coerce me , or force me to buy something that I do not have the money for!!!

be it the gov't writing a law that says I have to buy an overpriced, next to useless insurance plan, to employers having rules that state I must have a doctor's note proving I am sick if I miss a day of work!!!
it's simple, one shouldn't be forced to go into debt, or go hungry, or homeless, just so one industry can be boosted up via laws made up by their buddies in gov't!!!!

and well, anything after that one is only a mild secondary annoyance in my opinion!!!!

besides, just how is them making religious groups provide health coverage that includes birth control any different than the a store forcing an islamic person to sell pork??? if a religion came up tomorrow that said that all red haired, blue eyed people are subhuman, would that exempt me from the anti-discriminatory laws that are on the books????

the simple fact of the matter is that some women face severe health problems if they become pregnant........
and therefore, they need the birth control!!!

how about instead of trying to force women to have more babies by standing between them and birth control, you try to restore a little honor to the act of motherhood?? why would a women want to have kids?? most of the families in the states with kids end up having to rely on gov't assistance to feed them!!!! women and men are about on pare now as far as income, till of course the child comes into the picture, then woops, all of a sudden that women isn't as valuable in the workforce. and then of course there's the subconcious belief that is probably still prevalent in some areas of the country where...
a man needs a job , he has a family to support!! but a women, na, she has a husband, or she should danged well have one!!!!!



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by colbe
 

So you think a hospital offering the pill to its employees is going to cause nuclear war?

Dude, the pill is not that strong.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


Actually FTA

WASHINGTON - Many church-affiliated institutions will have to cover free birth control for employees,


This isn't about the hospitals patients, only the employees.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


Actually FTA

WASHINGTON - Many church-affiliated institutions will have to cover free birth control for employees,


This isn't about the hospitals patients, only the employees.


For having actually read through the source, I'm very surprised I didn't pick that up.

Thanks for the clarification.

That is a different story with different things to consider.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


I think a lot of people see this story and think hospital are handing out birth control to their patients for free.
That's why they're so pissed. But birth control is preventative care and most insurances cover that without copay.
It should have been included all along. I'm for this as it will hopefully bring abortion numbers down.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 10:58 AM
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Originally posted by colbe
Look at these times, so dark, almost all sexual sins are accepted, no
longer considered a sin!


People being free to do whatever they like, as long as all involved consent and no one's being harmed? People not having to suppress who they are, just so they won't stand out from the social norm? People being less hateful of those who are somewhat different, or love in different ways? People being accepted for loving people of different religions, races, or regardless of it's the same or different gender?

Whereas things like Spousal Abuse, Marital Rape, Sex Slaves, Forced marriages, Bans on interracial marriages, Hate crimes against members of the LGBT community, people being forced to keep their sexuality hidden, ect. All going away, mostly gone.

What you see as getting darker, I see as perpetually growing more enlightened. Both on the sexual stuff, and much everything else.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by vogon42
reply to post by xxsomexpersonxx
 


Actually FTA

WASHINGTON - Many church-affiliated institutions will have to cover free birth control for employees,


This isn't about the hospitals patients, only the employees.


If the birth control is for employees of church affiliated hospials, wouldn't the next step be for gov to change is for the patients? Anyway that's what I'm thinking cause I'm not against birth control and I'm not for it but still this could cause agency's to shutdown in the future if the steps go further especially if the church is against birth control. But hey maybe I'm wrong and they'll continue as usual.
edit on 22-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:11 AM
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Originally posted by anthonygillespie2012
If the birth control is for employees of church affiliated hospials, wouldn't the next step be for gov to change is for the patients?


No.

Employees in a hospital have a insurance plan THROUGH that hospital, just as anyone does through their place of employment.

Preventative care is covered in most health plans.

Birth control is preventative health care (it prevents unwanted pregnancies)

This rule simply adds birth control to the list of preventative care options in health care plans and requires that there be no copay (just like most other preventative options).

There is no plan to force hospital patients to take birth control.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by anthonygillespie2012
 

The patients have their own health care plans.

As long as they dont work for a religious organization, chances are birth controll is already covered under their health plan.


ETA: oops, I see that has already been answered
edit on 22-1-2012 by vogon42 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:15 AM
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Ori.
edit on 22-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (removed)

edit on 22-1-2012 by anthonygillespie2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Well, this is a secular state with secular laws. It's time to curb the religious interference in our laws. Religion doesn't have a right to dictate legislation.


I"m all for secular laws running the country, but the fact is that the laws pushing religious organizations to provide birth control are unconstitutional and interfere with those institutions right to freedom of religion. It's just that simple.

This is a case where the government is overstepping and interfering with religious freedom.

The legislation doesn't have a right to dictate religious beliefs or practices.

People who want birth control can go to MANY different venues to get it. The country is full of OTHER venues ... doctors, hospitals, clinics, etc etc etc ... where this can be gotten. It isn't necessary for the nanny-state government to interfere with the fact that a 'Catholic' hospital runs itself on 'Catholic' beliefs.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:31 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 

not everyone gets healthcare coverage through their employer...
not everyone has a healthcare plan....
and those unfortantely people with no healthcare plan don't get the priviledge of free birth control (isn't really free, I mean, those who don't have healthcare plans don't mainly because they can't afford to PAY for those plans....

to me, the best healthcare system that this country could come with, if it would be possible would be one where most of the common people could afford their own routine care, without gov't intervention, or insurance plans.
both are just middle man that the costs of the healthcare then has to support by including the costs into the charges they charge us.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Employees in a hospital have a insurance plan THROUGH that hospital, just as anyone does through their place of employment.

If someone works at a Catholic hospital and wants birth control covered by their work insurance, then they need to find a job elsewhere. Catholic hospitals are just that ... CATHOLIC ... and therefore it is expected that they will follow Catholic beliefs.


There is no plan to force hospital patients to take birth control.

Of course not. The plan is to force Catholic hospitals to provide it.
This steps on their religious rights.


This reminds me of the moron Muslim students who went to Catholic University this year and have sued the school to take down all the crosses and religious icons because they found it 'offensive'.
What part of 'CATHOLIC' don't these people get? If it says 'CATHOLIC' then thats what you get. Just like if it says something like "Kosher' on a restaurant you'll not be able to order bacon. Is the government going to force Jewish restaurants to carry bacon or pork chops on their menu?



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 

it seems to me that the gov't is overstepping their bounds in much, much worse ways that this!!!
as well as obamacare....
why waste your time crying about religious rights when the gov't is passing laws that could easily strip you or me, any of us of our rights to trial, lawyer, or even citizenship based on the claim of "terrorist!!!"

liberals.....
angry white middle aged men..
people concerned about the availability of healthy foods...
people are are worrying about constitutional rights (ya know, like separation of church and state)
traditionalist followers of any religion....
and on and on.....



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 

So If I work for St. (whoever) hospital, and I am baptist rather than catholic.

Are you telling the the hospitals freedom of religion is going to PREVENT me from getting preventative health care.

I'm all for freedom of religion, but I don't feel it should trample the rights of others.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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Not all 'birth control' is conception control.
Some say 'birth control' but are really abortifacient birth control.

The barrier methods - condom, diaphragm, cervical cap, and anti-sperm methods such as the sponge, jellies, foams and creams. Those that can act as abortifacients, killing the newly concieved child - oral contraceptives (the "Pill"), IUD, Norplant, Depo-Provera, the "Morning-After Pill". The pill can stop ovulation OR it can stop a newly concieved child from implanting in the womb.

Emory University’s Contraceptive Technology published information about the "mini-pills" and how they allow conception most of the time but the body then rejects the newly concieved child. I've been looking to see if there is a copy of this online. I have the information in books here ... but I'll have to see if I can find a link to the information.

The fact is that the Catholic organizations have a RIGHT to operate as their religious views deem fit. Those who don't like the way they operate .. they can work elsewhere. Those who want birth control have PLENTY of places to go elsewhere. I don't see the government stepping in and forcing Jewish restaurants to serve bacon, and I don't see the government stepping in and forcing Muslim taxi drivers to take passengers carrying unopened bottles of wine or dogs .. and the government has no right to overstep and push CATHOLIC hospitals to do that which is against their religion - namely birthcontrol and abortion.


Originally posted by dawnstar
why waste your time crying about religious rights when the gov't is passing laws that could easily strip you or me, any of us of our rights to trial, lawyer, or even citizenship based on the claim of "terrorist!!!"

I think we are all capable of 'crying' about not only the laws being passed taking our freedoms away .. but also THIS law that would take away religious rights in this country. We are all capable of multitasking and shouting about both. No problem.



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 11:57 AM
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Originally posted by vogon42
Are you telling the the hospitals freedom of religion is going to PREVENT me from getting preventative health care.

No one is preventing anything. This isn't communist China. You have a right not to work there. If you take a job at a Catholic hospital .. knowing what the Catholic church teaches and what the rights/benefits are before taking the job .. then you accept that job fully knowing what you will and wont' get as a benefit.

Don't like it? Then don't agree to work there. It's not the only game in town to work at.

Oh ... side note ... Protestant churches .. including the Baptists ... all were in line with the Catholic teaching about 'no artificial birth control' until the early 1900s. Strange but true fact that doesn't have anything to do with the topic, but I figured you'd find it interesting.


Originally posted by vogon42
I'm all for freedom of religion, but I don't feel it should trample the rights of others.

Wouldn't YOU be trampling on the rights of Catholics by forcing them to go against their beliefs?
Forcing them to do that when all you have to do is work elsewhere and leave 'em alone?


edit on 1/22/2012 by FlyersFan because: added 2nd comment



posted on Jan, 22 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by colbe
 


Sanger or not ... the math works out to be correct ... you can put doubt in the theroies but the math is not biased ... if we grow at X percentage rate divided into 70 and you will get the number of years that thing will double ... this is fact ... the illusion is that growth is unstainable .. it doesn't matter if it is thew economy or population growth ... you just can not escape it!

go to www.ALBartlett.org and see this math professors video presentation....

Al Bartlett



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