Ga. judge orders president to appear at hearing

Why anyone would expect him to continue to entertain this nonsense is beyond me.

reply to post by Kristinaso

"I was born in a hospital in the United States of America. No one, not even my mother knows who my father is. Can I become president?"

Wow. Incredibly poignant, yet intellectually acute point.

reply to post by Annee

Er, yes it is about Obama.

• Obama is named as a defendant. That means it is about him, specifically. No one else is on trial here.
  
  
• Many, including me, believe these proceedings are to some degree in retaliation for the lawsuits brought against various states by Obama.

Now, if you mean that it will have implications beyond Obama himself, of course it will! Any high profile case can have far-reaching implications. But this particular case is about Barack Obama.

Are you thinking it is about someone else and they just used Obama's name?

TheRedneck

reply to post by Sharpenmycleats

The court will sift through this case and I for one will watch and wait, with an open mind, and see how it plays out.

Of course, that's all any of us can do but we can certainly discuss it.

I don't understand the insistence that the case is about Obama. What do you mean? Do you think the court would rule differently if it was Bush or Arnold Schwarzenegger? The issue is the same, isn't it? Someone claims that a candidate is not eligible to be on the Georgia primary ballot because he's not a "natural born citizen" and the court will look at it and decide.

Sure, it's Obama, but how does that affect the outcome? What does race have to do with this? How did we get away from the simple question involved?

I don't understand calling someone a troll or "head in the sand" either. Has she said something that's incorrect, or just something you disagree with.

Please clear this up for me.

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by Deetermined

For a certification of live birth document to be legal, it must be from a State Registrar with a stamp, seal and signed by a person commissioned by the government, preferably the registrar

Exactly like Obama's....

So you agree Obama has a valid birth certificate!

www.factcheck.org...

lolololololololol.


Look, there is no definitive answer. It hasn't EVER been debunked one way or the other.

You have a bunch of "birthers" putting together a series of events mixing fact with speculation.

Then you have the debunkers, putting together a series of complete non-sense and backing it up with websites that are 100% known to be politically biased like factcheck.org.

The fact is, Obama said his BC didn't exist (the horses mouth.) Then it existed and was faked up, then we get a longer version 2 years later after Obama himself said it didn't exist.

Then there is the SS# situation. Which is NOT an allegation. He really HAS a Connecticut SS#. There has been zero explanation by the administration as to why or how this discrepancy exists.

Then there is the real fact that his Grams worked in social security.

Then there is the real fact that his Grams on Video said he was born in Kenya and she was there and watched it.

If that's not enough evidence to make you wonder, then you are brain damaged.


Not one debunker ever has debunked any of these. We have people who lack technical experience who swear up and down (when they are 100% wrong) that the certificates are real. The ones on the internet are not. And no debunker has ever held an original copy.

So what has been debunked?


Clearly we have an allegation with a precedent and a bunch of people pursuing it. (Birthers)

And a bunch of Obama lovers who are just talking out of their you know what with zero evidence claiming it's been debunked because the same people who would of perpetrated the forgery swear it's not a forgery.

This is like asking OJ if he's a murderer. Of course he's going to say no. Do you really expect Obama to be like "Oh -- You got me!" ??????????????


It's clearly an unsettled issue and I take no stance one way or the other. But there is NO reasonable person who will say it's been debunked. Reasonable people will say it's not likely, but in lieu of evidence to prove it's NOT true, they cannot say for certain.

Also, who cares if it isn't true. If it isn't true, that should come out in court.

If it *IS* true, then this is the biggest crime of the century and all the "Debunkers" would of been supporting this crime based on ignorance and bias.


I say investigate regardless if it's true or not. There is probable cause.

Originally posted by TheRedneck
I think I said it above: "a bit dog hollers first."

TheRedneck

Hey! I think we respect each other for being straight forward and both of us respect integrity. But I don't think we are ever going to be politically aligned.

I was raised on the Beaches of Los Angeles by a mother that believed every person must find their own path to walk.

Our worlds and ideologies are - - I suspect - - worlds apart.

Love ya anyway

Annee

You're all dreaming if you think anything will come of this.

Dreaming.

Originally posted by Laokin
The fact is, Obama said his BC didn't exist.

That is just not true.... care to show us when Obama said that? How do you think he got his passport etc without a BC....

then we get a longer version 2 years later after Obama himself said it didn't exist.

No he did not - again, care to show where exactly Obama said it didnt exist?

There has been zero explanation by the administration as to why or how this discrepancy exists.

There HAS been a explanation, but somehow you ignore that.... remember, SSN's do not mean you ever resided in a particular state...

Then there is the real fact that his Grams worked in social security.

So?

Not one debunker ever has debunked any of these.

yes they have, but you seem to have ignored that.

And no debunker has ever held an original copy

yes they have actually, but again you ignore that - you even had the link in your post, but obviously did not even look at it as you would have seen someone holding a certified copy of Obama's BC...

Originally posted by okachobi

Originally posted by TheRedneck
The day we allow a sitting President to thumb his nose at the law or the Constitution is the day we no longer have a law or a Constitution... or a republic.

You must not have been paying attention during the Bush presidency. He was subpoenaed, as was Dick Cheney. Neither appeared. And this was a federal subpoena issued by congress- not a state court. I believe their people used executive privilege as the reason for declining to appear, and argued that if a sitting president could be dragged in front of any court that could summon him, the operation of the government could easily be disrupted. I happen to think that is a valid argument since obviously anyone can file suit for any nonsensical reason they want.


The 5 times GW used executive privilege that I am aware of, were not to avoid him going to court and testifying. He used it to protect others. First time Janet Reno from turning over FBI documents on informants.

2nd time it was to protect documents on the friendly fire shooting of Marine Tillman.

3rd time was to not turn over documents on meetings held by Cheney with Enron Executives.

4th time was to keep Taylor and Miers from having to turn over documents. Fuzzy on this one.

5th time was over a subpoena to Karl Rove.

No Bush never used it to keep from testifying in a suit against him.

Is this another attempt to say it is Bush's fault?

At the end of Obama's second term in office (yes, he will be re-elected) the original Constitution of the United States held in D.C. will self combust. This is because the rule of of a naturally born citizen for Presidency will have been broken. The Constitution will be NULL & VOID and self destruct, ending the USA empire.

Originally posted by mytheroy
reply to post by Annee

 

Not showing up would only mean two things, he's stalling till he can produce very hard to prove forgery's or he's hiding something. If it was me or you and we didn't show up, you could guarantee we'd be jailed.

When it is declared that he is not a Natural Born American - - - by the Constitution - - - let me know.

Until then - - I consider any expectation for Obama to be at this hearing - - frivolous and a waste of tax payer money. There is no real and logical reason for Obama to personally be at this hearing. (I would think the same if it was Bush or Romney or even Michelle Bachmann).

AGAIN - - making it clear I have no issue with filing suit to question and get clarity on what the Constitution states is a Natural Born American.

reply to post by kawika


I think it should be Nationally Televised

Originally posted by spoor


There HAS been a explanation, but somehow you ignore that.... remember, SSN's do not mean you ever resided in a particular state...

Are you just slow, or did you not read? I did not ask if it's possible to have a different state SSN. I did not state it was impossible. I stated that the ADMINISTRATION HAS NEVER EXPLAIN OBAMA'S TYPE CASE.

Let me see the video of the white house PR saying yeah Obama got his SS# when he was ____ years or age as a result of ______.

It's never happened and all the debunkers are doing is taking PROBABLE scenario's and imposing them on the president. That doesn't make it true. Not one bit.

I also like how you leave out Obama's grand mother on video saying he was born in kenya. I suppose because you are aware of that and it's irrefutable? (This alone is enough for an investigation.)

His grandma worked in the social security building and her grandson potentially has a forged SS#. This is a lot bigger than a "So" situation.

As for Obama admitting a long form didn't exist.... I saw that on TV live when he said it.... TWICE. I'm trying to find the clip, but surely you can understand how hard that's likely going to be to find, amidst all the "Birther" "Anti-Birther" vids right?


I take a neutral stance, and know what I seen and heard with my own eyes and ears. You haven't provided any proof of debunking, just proof of your lack to think critically. None of those threads have a shred of evidence. Just ad-hoc biased opinions based on Occam's Razor and ignorance.

On the flip side, nobody has proven it to be true either. There is some empirical evidence in the form of statements made by the president himself and members of his family. There is the empirical evidence that what was released to the public was faux. This doesn't actually prove it to be true though. Hence why an investigation is necessary.

Although, he is the president. He's not going to allow you to investigate him, if he wasn't hiding anything, do you think the issue would of became this big?

I don't. Not only this, but Obama is a liar, fact -- we have many cases that set precedent.

reply to post by Annee

Yes, I do respect you Annee... and yes, we are worlds apart ideologically. But one thing I do know is that racism itself is perpetuated not only by white Southerners... it is perpetuated by black people who have this chip on their shoulder, by Northern whites, and especially by those who scream "racist" and point fingers whenever they don't get their way. And yes, that is a sore spot for me, because I really believe in my heart that all are created equal.

Equal to achieve their desires to the best of their ability, equal to challenge wrongs in society, equal to contribute to the good of mankind and to the future. But also equal to be responsible for their actions and accountable to others. Also equal to be questioned and criticized over their actions.

Every time you accuse someone of disliking Obama because of his skin color, you divide this country. You are promoting racism with your words.

When people tell me I do not like Obama because he is black, or because he is a Muslim, it makes me leery of ever voting again for anyone who is black or a Muslim... because I believe I have the right to disagree with them, and their being in a minority takes that right from me. So yes, in one sense of the word it makes me a racist... not because I find fault with anyone's race, but because I will not be able to find fault with their actions because of their race.

That is a dictatorship, and I despise dictators even worse than I do racists.

TheRedneck

Originally posted by Laokin
I also like how you leave out Obama's grand mother on video saying he was born in kenya.

Oh dear, just where do you get your "facts" from? his grandmother never said he was born in Kenya...
www.salon.com...

I suppose because you are aware of that and it's irrefutable?

I am aware of the claim, and know it is just made up.... I strongly suggest you do not visit birther sites and believe what they say, they make stuff up.

As for Obama admitting a long form didn't exist.... I saw that on TV live when he said it.... TWICE.

no you did not, you misheard what he said. Hawaii stopped issuing long form certificates, and Obama had special permission to get one.

Long form, 2011 On April 22, 2011, Obama asked Loretta Fuddy, director of the Hawaii Department of Health, for certified copies of his original Certificate of Live Birth ("long-form birth certificate").[44] Accompanying the letter was a written request from Judith Corley, Obama's personal counsel, requesting a waiver of the department's policy on computer-generated certificates. Corley stated that granting the waiver would relieve the department of the burden of repeated inquiries into the President's birth records.[45] On April 25, 2011, Fuddy approved the request and witnessed the copying process as the health department's registrar issued the certified copies. The same day, Corley personally visited the department headquarters in Honolulu to pay the required fee on Obama's behalf, and received the two requested certified copies of the original birth certificate, an accompanying letter from Fuddy attesting to the authenticity of same, and a receipt for the processing fee. Fuddy said that she had granted the exception to its normal policy of issuing only computer-generated copies by virtue of Obama's status, in an effort to avoid ongoing requests for the birth certificate.[46][47] On April 27, White House staffers gave reporters a copy of the certificate, which they had posted on the White House website.[48][49] It confirmed the details of the official short-form certificate released in 2008.[50][51]

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by charles1952


The attacks by birthers, natural born citizen interpretation lawsuits, social security number fraud, can't think of other issues.

These are attacks on Obama. This suit is an end to a means. To prove he cannot qualify to be president. Not sure I understand your question naming other people not being accused of the same issues (Bush, Arnold) and looking for a different court decision. Might want to clarify that question if you want an answer.

I also have no problem with the suit itself, I just am not naive to not see what it is about.

If you too think this is only a constitutional lawsuit and has nothing to do with Obama, have coffee with Annee because you may have a lot in common.

If this person were to win this lawsuit, do you think that would be the end of it. That the Natural Born citizen issue has been determined. I believe it is a backdoor lead in to the claim President Obama is ineligible to be POTUS. Since birther suits have been tossed this is just another clever angle to trash Obama's birth records at a legal venue. The facts that will come out of this lawsuit will almost certainly evolve around Obama.

That's the insistence on it's about him.

Originally posted by spoor

Originally posted by Laokin
I also like how you leave out Obama's grand mother on video saying he was born in kenya.

Oh dear, just where do you get your "facts" from? his grandmother never said he was born in Kenya...
www.salon.com...

I suppose because you are aware of that and it's irrefutable?

I am aware of the claim, and know it is just made up.... I strongly suggest you do not visit birther sites and believe what they say, they make stuff up.

As for Obama admitting a long form didn't exist.... I saw that on TV live when he said it.... TWICE.

no you did not, you misheard what he said.

I saw his grandmother say it. In context, before the media pulled the clips. The clips on youtube said "Removed by government request."

Where do YOU get your information from?

Your information is government propaganda and slant pieces. And no, I didn't mishear it. Obama was asked directly and directly stated "I don't believe my long form actually exists anymore, so I'm not sure how I would procure that for the public."

Weeks later he released the bogus short form. 2 years later we get the long form that didn't exist. Why 2 years? Because it didn't exist and he thought the issue was going to go away and when it didn't they made a forgery.

Again, this doesn't mean he wasn't born in hawaii. His long form could of been damage or lost. My father actually had his birthday changed from Nov 2nd to Nov. 5th after being alive 44 years.

He was born in 51. We moved to Florida in 99 and in order to get a Florida license we had to get a copy of his BC (because we couldn't find the original.) The copy came and said the 5th. We have since found the original.

Point is, maybe something really did happen to his records and he can't prove he is who he is, so he opted to make fakes.

Doesn't matter. What matters is, there is a clear amount of circumstantial evidence to investigate the matter. He doesn't want to be investigated.

Hrmm....

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Good! If he doesn't show up they should do what they do to the rest of us....THROW HIS ASS IN JAIL!

Originally posted by TheRedneck
reply to post by Annee

Yes, I do respect you Annee... and yes, we are worlds apart ideologically. But one thing I do know is that racism itself is perpetuated not only by white Southerners... it is perpetuated by black people who have this chip on their shoulder, by Northern whites, and especially by those who scream "racist" and point fingers whenever they don't get their way. And yes, that is a sore spot for me, because I really believe in my heart that all are created equal.

No argument

Every time you accuse someone of disliking Obama because of his skin color, you divide this country. You are promoting racism with your words.

But I didn't accuse "someone" - - - I believe I said it could not be denied (or something like that).

When people tell me I do not like Obama because he is black, or because he is a Muslim, . . .

I don't think either you or I think that way. I think we both value our own integrity to be above that. We can't control others.

I'm gonna skip the dictator part.

Originally posted by Laokin
The clips on youtube said "Removed by government request."

care to show us these links that state "removed by government request"??