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Tennessee and New York in 'war' over gun rights and common sense

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posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 08:18 AM
The system may have been created to honor, guide and protect us in the past, but nowadays it frequently preys on the honest mistakes of those who support it. This is a lesson to us all about protecting ourselves from a system that has fallen by the wayside. Whether it be traffic fines, divorce courts, state law difference etc. We have to learn to stay invisible to those who would see us as an opportunity. Your body language itself can get you into a mess of trouble if it is not submissive enough when it comes to interactions with our law enforcement personnel.

This is a fight against natural instincts above all. In the act of protecting patrons from harm, the establishment tries to pull out those few dangerous elements that exist around us. When that course of action fails, they install laws that are designed to protect us from ourselves, such as the seatbelt laws. Once this method of measurement has been installed, the likelihood of honest mistakes getting one on the wrong side of the law grows in potential, and the idea of common sense gets thrown out the window. Yes it seems that common sense would say that this woman be turned loose with her gun and informed of the strict laws in NYC.

But here in lies the question and the sensitivity of this issue. Does one wish to trade the laws that protect us from ourselves, such as the seatbelt laws, and the responsibility of educating ourselves and paying the consequences for the lack there of, for a dependency on the common sense of those around us?

My vote would be on the common sense side as that would force those who were smart to learn to protect themselves against the negative elements around us. No matter how diligent the system gets in protecting us, it can never make us completely safe. In fact what it is more likely to do is create a false sense of safety that allows us to let our guard down and in turn makes us more vulnerable.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 08:18 AM

Originally posted by popsmayhem
The cops that arrested this women,
who ever is prosecuting her,
or thinks she should be jailed are jobbers...

These gun laws that new york has on the books
are BS, good honest people are getting caught
up in this *war* on guns
there are many casualties, and this
is just one more... =( sad day indeed.

Anyone trying to prosecute her is guilty of rejecting the constitution and wasting tax dollars. The prosecutors and police involved should be jailed for false imprisonment and forced to pay this women retribution for the mental anguish she must be going through for simply trying to live as an American. Plain and simple.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 08:47 AM
I personally hate NY's gun laws, but the State has a right to make the laws that they see fit. Guns themselves are not "illegal" in New York or in New York City, but the laws are very very strict.

Any responsible gun owner who intends to go to another area and carry a firearm has the responsibility to know the laws for the area in which they will be traveling. That is part of being a responsible gun owner. The laws in the State of New York are strict, but it is no secret that in New York City the laws are much, much stricter and those laws are enforced without exception. Here is the law for non residents.


It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license. (A provision of federal law provides a defense to state or local laws which would prohibit the passage of persons with firearms in interstate travel if the person is traveling from any place where he may lawfully possess and transport a firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and transport such firearm and the firearm is unloaded and in the trunk. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm shall be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console).

Source (NRA website, just click on NY)

New York City, just a couple years back convicted and sentenced an NFL Wide Receiver who played for the New York Giants, the home team. Now this was not just any player, this was a "Superstar" player. A Pro Bowler and a player who had just helped his team win the Superbowl. His gun slipped from his waistband, in a night club, and he shot himself in the leg. He was not licensed to carry in New York but did have a permit to carry in Florida, and he let that permit expire. He was sentenced to 2 years on a lesser charge. The City made an example out of him. His name was Plaxico Burress. Even Mayor Bloomberg spoke out on the matter, urging prosecution to the fullest extent of the law, especially because of his fame.

New York's gun laws are very well known. There is no excuse why this women did not know and it is her responsibility to be informed if she intended to carry outside of her home State where she has a license to carry.

Now that being said, this women will probably get a couple years in jail. If my memory serves me correctly, since the gun was loaded she will face a mandatory sentence. So it will not matter if the judge is understanding. If she is convicted, the judge by law will be forced to give her a specific amount of jail time and in my opinion, that is the real crime. This women is clearly not a threat to anyone, but mandatory sentencing will see to it that she is treated like a criminal, but that it another topic for another thread.

If I was this women, I would make bail (without using a Bondsman), leave New York, hire an attorney at home and never set foot in that State again. She has enough support from her home State that I really do not think they would arrest her when New York issues an arrest warrant for failure to appear in Court.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 08:51 AM
As a TN native with a friends with badges in that state, let me just state... If this woman goes to jail, I would NEVER want to drive through TN with a New York license plate. Stuff seems to taken very personal in that area of the country.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 10:00 AM
Damn this woman actually thought that her TN issued permit was good in NY? That's just crazy myself i never carry my handgun outside of my state. This is a states rights issue TN wants harrass NY drivers over this and i think they do allready anyway then all the more power to them.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 10:22 AM

Originally posted by lokdog
Damn this woman actually thought that her TN issued permit was good in NY? That's just crazy myself i never carry my handgun outside of my state. This is a states rights issue TN wants harrass NY drivers over this and i think they do allready anyway then all the more power to them.
Granted, she should have checked, but there are many states that have reciprocal agreements with other states.

You should google it, many gun rights sites have maps and charts with states that honor other states permits. You may be well within your rights to carry in neighboring states, just check first.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 10:22 AM
NY already caved in with the guy who had a gun in his airline luggage. Fined him for a misdemeanor offense after their BS threats of 15 years in prison. They'll cave here too.

Ignorance of the law not being an excuse is utter bull. A philosophy put forth by authoritarians to cover the fact that their laws are a miserable mish-mash of failed policies inherently unenforceable and corrupt. A free society is one operating under the presumption of liberty. Where no one is harmed, no property lost, there is no reason for any individual in a free society to believe there is a crime.

The fact that so many would jump up and cry "lock him up for his ignorance!" is appalling. Sorry I didnt know I wasnt supposed to use a port-o-potty on a Sunday in Bumble#, TN.

Another point illustrated is the loss of the spirit of law. Sure, NYC's draconian laws are for "safety." Here we have someone trying to do the right thing being railroaded for fun and profit because common sense is gone, discretion is gone, and the law is so damn literal I'm probably breaking a dozen right now while sitting at a desk causing no harm to anyone or anything.

One of the first hurdles this world needs to overcome is this "ignorance is not an excuse" bull#. By definition there is no way ignorance can not be a valid excuse. Unless we are all supposed to be omniscient?

Compounded with the fact that the 2nd Amendment exists. Why should anyone taught "shall not be infringed" expect an infringement?

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 10:46 AM
reply to post by FlyersFan

The City of New York is about as bad as the City of Chicago when it comes to gun ownership and license to carry and conceal carry. They dont like any laws that force them to recognize out of state documentation, and have hassled officers from other states as well as federal officers for carrying weapons.

While I respect the fact the enforcement and laws are a state issue, in this case the Federal government needs to establish legislation like they did for law enforcement and apply it to civilians.

Arresting people for doing the right thing and exercising common sense is a joke and just sad for the department who is enforcing it.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 12:20 PM
NYC and DC have gun laws that are anti-constitutional. I'm all for states rights, but their laws sure do trample on theUnited States Constitution which is supposed to be a higher law. And the lack of COMMON SENSE in NYC over this is frustrating.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 02:11 PM
Im from California, probably the 3rd worst state for gun laws outside of New York and DC, this crap wouldn't even fly here...

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:10 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Does New York know what the 2nd Amendment is?

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:23 PM

Originally posted by FlyersFan
So here's the story in brief - Amanda Graves, a nurse from Tennessee, went to the 9/11 memorial in NYC. She had a loaded pistol with her - which she was licensed to carry in Tennessee. Going to NYC she wanted personal protection (can't blame her) and so she took the licensed and registered weapon with her.

None of this makes any sense.
She was more than willing to "check" her gun, that she thought she NEEDED for protection? How was it going to protect her while it was checked?
Why not leave it at home then?
She was ok with not being allowed to carry her gun at the memorial but not ok with not being able to take it to the memorial where she would willingly give it up anyway?

Sounds like she is not smart enough to have a gun.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:24 PM

Originally posted by TupacShakur
reply to post by FlyersFan

Does New York know what the 2nd Amendment is?

Yes we do.
Usually it means the exact same crowd that stomps around all time crying about "states rights" hates the rights of certain states like NY, CA, etc.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:25 PM
reply to post by FlyersFan

Logical honest Americans beware when entering hyper Liberal states. That's common sense right there.

I hope to see Tennessee turn up the rhetoric, New York needs to be taught a lesson in humility.. they should even post a travel advisory for traveling to New York like the State Department does for hostile countries. New York has always been filled with cowards and cravens.. this is the same state that let the rest of the nation fight the war of 1812 while refusing to fight until the war came to them. Or had soldiers carry out the only instance of the Army being used purposefully to kill unarmed citizens in the Civil War Draft Riots. And to this day has the highest concentration of police per capita than any other city, it's police force being larger than the entire Canadian military.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:27 PM
In other news

2010 murder rates by state
New York 4.5
Tennessee 5.6

So um...
maybe keep your guns in Tennessee where apparently you need them more and let us do what we do in NY.

edit on 21-1-2012 by Kristinaso because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:39 PM
reply to post by Kristinaso

States rights apply to things that aren't specified in the Constitution, the right to bear arms not being one of those things.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:44 PM
reply to post by Kristinaso

She is smart enough.

She brought her gun for protection while in New York City. It's understandable. Whils there she went to visit the 9/11 memorial. They do not allow weapons at the memorial. THIS IS NOT COMMON KNOWLEDGE. So when she saw the sign she decided to 'check' the weapon with law enforcement while she was in the memorial.

She wouldn't need the gun while in the memorial, there is a strong police presence.

What part of that don't you get?

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:54 PM
I'm from the bible belt and i stand with Tennessee. Damn straight. Free Amanda Graves!

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 04:57 PM
If Tennessee wants to retaliate they should not mix issues.

Change Tennessee's agreement with NY and not recognize NY residents with gun/concealed carry permits and prosecute any NY resident carrying in Tennessee.

This would not punish the citizen class NY resident, but the gun permitted Attorney elite in NY (of which there are a ton of!)

Many other states could change their recipracal agreements as well. I always wondered why concealed carry friendly states honored the permits from states that don't honor theirs. Actually, I don't wonder. The elite and those that support and defend them, can go anywhere they want and do whatever they want.

Simple solution: Don't honor NY carry permits anywhere that NY doesn't honor in return.

Will that happen? If Tennessee politicians are like everywhere else, no.

posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 05:04 PM
reply to post by ArMaP

Not knowing the law is never an excuse for breaking it, and a 39 years old medical student should know that.

So should N.Y. legislators of any age. Legislation is not law. At best it is evidence of law, at worst it is unlawful, and given the Supreme Courts recent rulings in cases such as McDonald v Chicago where the SCOTUS held that the 2nd Amendment is incorporated into the 14th Amendment thus all states are bound by the 2nd Amendment, and given their even more recent ruling in Bond v United States that held that individuals have the absolute right to challenge bogus legislation, it is way past shameful that these ignoramuses known as N.Y. legislators, and the brutish thugs who enforce their criminal legislation do not know the law.

Ignorantia non excusat! No excuse for you, or the disgusting state of New York.

Learn the Law!

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