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Tennessee and New York in 'war' over gun rights and common sense

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posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 06:55 AM
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So here's the story in brief - Amanda Graves, a nurse from Tennessee, went to the 9/11 memorial in NYC. She had a loaded pistol with her - which she was licensed to carry in Tennessee. Going to NYC she wanted personal protection (can't blame her) and so she took the licensed and registered weapon with her. When she got to the memorial she saw a sign at the police checkpoint saying 'no weapons allowed' so she went to the police officer and asked if she could 'check' her weapon. (some places have that and you'd think that a police checkpoint with a sign stating 'no weapons allowed' might have a check-in provided). The cop made nice with her and told her to follow him to another area and when she got there her pistol was taken away and she was arrested. She faces THREE YEARS in jail.

New York is saying alot against the woman, with smears against gun owners and people from 'the bible belt' etc. Tennessee says New York is acting without common sense and says they will retaliate by super-enforcing their laws so anyone with a New York liscense plate driving through the state had better have all their 't's crossed and their 'i's' dotted ....

Numerous "Free Amanda Graves" sites have popped up on the internet.

Check out some of the rhetoric from the New York Post -


New York Post


Gun nuts in the Tennessee state legislature have declared civil war on New Yorkers — saying they will retaliate for the prosecution of a woman who was carrying an illegal pistol at the 9/11 Memorial.

A resolution winding its way through the Tennessee legislature warns New Yorkers not to drive through their state — because the Highway Patrol is “gunning” for us.

A Knoxville-based legislator, who moonlights as a farmer, is so angry over the Tennessee tourist’s gun arrest last month that his resolution condemns it as a “grave miscarriage of justice” — and reminds New Yorkers to “drive carefully” if we come visit.


Another New York Post article slamming the woman involved

Gothamist - Tennessee Representative Threatens NYC Drivers


“She remembered she had the gun on her,” a source said. She walked up to a security guard and said, “I have this gun. Where can I check it?”

The guard told her that she was in luck because of “law enforcement day” — and led her to another area.

When she got to that section, she asked another cop, “We have this gun — can we check it in here? We [my husband and I] are not law-enforcement.” That’s when she was arrested.

Graves, who has a full legal carry permit in Tennessee, was locked up on a weapons-possession charge and held on $2,000 bond that she posted yesterday. She is due in court on March



A Tennessee state representative with the friendly name Frank Niceley is upset that New York City takes its gun laws seriously. He's so upset, he's writing resolutions about it! In the wake of the incident involving a woman who brought her loaded gun to the 9/11 Memorial, Niceley has gone and introduced a resolution in his state that gently threatens New Yorkers driving there. But only gently.


Other stories about this and more information - including that the NYC cops have tried this before on others and failed - and that the New York City gun laws are unconstitutional.

Huffington Post - New York

In February, a jury acquitted Floridian Jonathan Ryan of weapons possession charges. Ryan had driven up to New York to help his girlfriend move. After being pulled over turning right at a red light (another thing that's illegal here in the Big Apple) cops searched his car and found a loaded weapon. Ryan had a license for the weapon in Florida and also faced 3 1/2 years in prison before the jury acquitted him


National Review Online - Free Amanda Graves!

New York City may not be full of people who believe in American Exceptionalism, but it is stuffed to the gills with people who believe in New York Exceptionalism, and it maintains a firearms-regulation regime that may be unconstitutional and certainly is far more strict than the practice of most of the rest of the country. So draconian are its laws in the matter of concealed firearms that the plain dictionary meanings of words commonly are discarded: Ms. Graves stands to be convicted of a violent felony, even though she plainly had no criminal intent, much less violent criminal intent. Likewise, a person may be charged with carrying a loaded gun even when the gun is in fact unloaded and kept in a locked carrying case, if the ammunition is kept in the same case. Under New York law, up is down, unloaded is loaded, and an innocent error is a malicious crime of violence.


And just to show how asinine New York is being about all this - (from the same article). That dolt Bloomberg accused her of having coc aine in her pocket and of being on drugs .. but the 'coc aine' was just asprin. No apology from Bloomberg on this ...


New York mayor Mike Bloomberg, an anti-gun zealot (among his many comical obsessions), slandered Ms. Graves when he told the press that even without the gun charges, she “would have been arrested for the coc aine in her pocket.” That “coc aine” turns out to have been aspirin, which Ms. Graves will no doubt need, given the headache that New York is giving her. Mayor Bloomberg owes her an apology.






edit on 1/21/2012 by FlyersFan because: fixed spelling



+7 more 
posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:07 AM
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Just another reason to never live in, near or visit NY.
EVER!



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:09 AM
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Don't blame NY for her being stupid. If she knows enough to get a permit in her home state then she should have been smart enough to check out the laws of the state she was visiting.


+3 more 
posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:11 AM
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Originally posted by macman
Just another reason to never live in, near or visit NY. EVER!


Their gun laws are unconstitutional. Same with Washington DC. I can understand why the nurse wanted to bring her gun - which was legal in Tennessee - to New York City. I can understand her belief that gun laws are uniform across the country. I can understand Tennessee being upset about the absurdity of arresting this nurse who had no criminal intent and in fact intended to follow the rules as she knew them.

Severe lack of common sense on the part of New York City.

And the anti-anyone-but-us-New Yorkers rhetoric coming out of the New York Post
(a paper that I get and usually enjoy a whole bunch) ... that's just



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


I suppose people in Tennessee expect any tourists to follow their laws, so what's the problem with New York wanting the same thing?

Obviously, someone that is looking to solve the situation in a legal way shouldn't be treated in the same way as someone that is trying to hide a loaded gun, so I think this will end in nothing.

Not knowing the law is never an excuse for breaking it, and a 39 years old medical student should know that.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:24 AM
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The US Constitution allows citizens the right to keep and bear arms. However, various state legislators interpret it differently when it comes to carry and concealed carry permits. I understand that with the crime rate and street gangs in New York, there may be more restrictive laws. That being said however, the insults cast down upon Tennessee, if not the entire region by the New York press, was nothing but old fashion yellow journalism. It was meant to incite division and inspire regional derision.

It succeeded.

Travel and Leisure (LINK) magazine recently rated New York as the nation's rudest city. It goes on to make excuses by saying that the diversity and mannerisms are often misinterpreted but in this case, it seems fairly obvious that the insults tossed out at the population of a whole state was a good example of the noted brand of ugliness.

I would hope that the good people of Tennessee would take the high ground here by refusing to engage arrogance and ignorance. Let the bickering play itself out and the state line act as a place of safety. I simply do not see that Tennessee would extradite one of their own to New York if she chose not to put herself in the peril of that court system. Her loss, the weapon in question and any bond posting; can be a lesson to all; both learned and shared by the unwary traveler.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:26 AM
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I agree Tennessee should absolutely refuse to extradite her.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:30 AM
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Oh how we hate you New York.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:32 AM
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And the lesson we all learn from this story:
Don't go to New York.

I guess New York wants to drive away tourists money.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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I do feel bad for the woman, and I commend her for trying to do the right thing.....however...

If you have a carry permit, like i do, it is your responsibility to know which states reciprocate with the state that issued your license......

She didnt do this, and she is succeptable to the laws of NY state......

We might not agree with it, but it is their right......

Personally I think they should have treated her a lot better then that, at the most confiscated her weapon...

Like i said I dont agree at all with what New York did or how they handle the gun issue.......

But it is our responsibility as RESPONSIBLE gun owners to make sure the laws cover us where we are going



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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The cops that arrested this women,
who ever is prosecuting her,
or thinks she should be jailed are jobbers...

These gun laws that new york has on the books
are BS, good honest people are getting caught
up in this *war* on guns
there are many casualties, and this
is just one more... =( sad day indeed.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by popsmayhem
The cops that arrested this women,
who ever is prosecuting her,
or thinks she should be jailed are jobbers...

These gun laws that new york has on the books
are BS, good honest people are getting caught
up in this *war* on guns
there are many casualties, and this
is just one more... =( sad day indeed.


yes but its states rights to make the laws as they see fit, if people inthe states want to change them, then they need to change who governs them........

We dont have to like it, to obey it.......

If people truly agree with Ron Paul, they will recognize this



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Not knowing the law is never an excuse for breaking it, and a 39 years old medical student should know that.


I was waiting for that response, and was ready to make it myself.

I do think is is asinine that New York would take this so far over the top as they did. I also think New York's laws are unconstitutional in regards to gun laws.

However...with that said...I must also agree with the above poster. Anytime you travel, you must check the laws of another state. If this woman was totally unaware that gun laws vary from state to state, and thought this was a 'universal' right, then she is lacking education. I would say she and her husband have done a poor job of learning their responsibilities as gun owners. After all even in Tennessee, they have to go thru a education and safety course before they are given the permit to carry a concealed weapon. I hope she is paying better attention in med school.

The 'right to carry' laws have been in the public debate for years nationally and in many states including Tennessee (does she never read the paper or listen to the local news???). Being unaware that this law may be different in other states says that they either live in a cave (unlikely), or they are lacing in common intelligence (unfortunately MORE likely),

Hell, I check the cell phone laws when I travel, since these days a phone to your ear in the car may not be legal in all states. That is just a simple example of what is legal in some states getting you in trouble in other states.

Therefore, in the future, if I happen to go to a doctor's office, and the attending physician is Dr. Amanda Graves (assuming she can make it thru med school), I would have to demand treatment from a physician of higher intelligence.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by ArMaP
Obviously, someone that is looking to solve the situation in a legal way shouldn't be treated in the same way as someone that is trying to hide a loaded gun, ..

EXACTLY. Sure she should have known the gun laws when she was traveling. But it was an honest mistake .. not a criminally intended one. And the fact that NYC has unconstitutional gun laws ... that adds to the discussion of the case. This nurse should not be facing three years in a New York jail over this. That's insane. The prosecution of her moves forward ....



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:54 AM
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There are two lesson here:

1. If you're dumb enough to give a cop a chance to screw you over while you're trying to do the right thing, they will.

2. Follow rules and laws dictated by basic morality. Any others, do so only if you absolutely have to.

The phrase "No good deed goes unpunished' is the lost 11th commandment.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 07:58 AM
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I live in Pennsylvania.

A Pennsylvania resident that has a permit to carry can carry their weapon with them and DRIVE all the way to Texas LEGALLY, due to state reciprocity agreements with regard to concealed carry.

We can't drive to New York City with a gun.

Maybe NYC is the problem?



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
Sure she should have known the gun laws when she was traveling. But it was an honest mistake .. not a criminally intended one. And the fact that NYC has unconstitutional gun laws ... that adds to the discussion of the case. This nurse should not be facing three years in a New York jail over this. That's insane. The prosecution of her moves forward ....



That is also AGREED. I do believe New York had the right to take 'some' action. But the statements by Bloomburg, and their prosecution of them as common criminals, falls on the idiocy of New York.

It IS OBVIOUS that she was attempting to abide by the law, even if she didn't know it, and further, that there is NO EVIDENCE of ill intent nor is there evidence of criminal action beyond the carry of a gun.

She should NOT go to jail for this crime. Fair for New York to use it to inform other travelers, but totally UNJUST to prosecute her as if she had used the gun in a crime. I have been stopped by New York Police from backing out of a closed toll booth crossing from Brooklyn to Manhattan. I got lucky. The police officer looked at my license, informed me of the law, and let me continue on my way. In her situation, they could have done the same, and maybe took posession of the weapon, even bill her to ship it back to Tennessee, but instead they choose to trump up the charges and publicly accuse her of coc aine posession?

That is where New York crosses the line and earns their reputation as one of the rudest places in the U.S.
edit on 21-1-2012 by lakesidepark because: none

edit on 21-1-2012 by lakesidepark because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 08:06 AM
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Originally posted by lakesidepark
, but choose to trump up the charges and publically accuse her of coc aine posession? That is where New York crosses the line and earns their reputation as one of the rudest places in the U.S.


I really hope this woman will prosecute that dolt Bloomberg for this. He went on public record defending the indefendable and then threw in the 'coc aine' thing that simply wasn't true. Her reputation as a nurse could be severely damaged. No one will hire a nurse with a coc aine habit. She should sue ... really ...



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask

Originally posted by popsmayhem
The cops that arrested this women,
who ever is prosecuting her,
or thinks she should be jailed are jobbers...

These gun laws that new york has on the books
are BS, good honest people are getting caught
up in this *war* on guns
there are many casualties, and this
is just one more... =( sad day indeed.


yes but its states rights to make the laws as they see fit, if people inthe states want to change them, then they need to change who governs them........

We dont have to like it, to obey it.......

If people truly agree with Ron Paul, they will recognize this


The people in the state who vote for these jobbers
are jobbers I agree.
Still this lady from Ten.
should not have her God given right to carry
taken from her no matter what state she is in.
She should not be in jail,
a license to carry a gun needs to be like a license
for driving your car. You do not have to get
a new driving license for every state you enter and
drive in, your license is good everywhere.



posted on Jan, 21 2012 @ 08:15 AM
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I am sorry that this happened to her.....BUT, I just received my CCW in December and they made it a point to tell us in class, "KNOW THE LAWS OF ANY STATE YOU TRAVEL TO!!" New York has the toughest laws on the books. (along with California) In New York you can not have hollow points, but you can have FMJs if you carry conceal and are a resident of NY.....


It is unlawful for any person to carry, possess or transport a handgun in or through the state unless he has a valid New York license.

NY conceal Law

And here is my state list of reciprocity:

Permits Honored in Other States Permit holders should know that while they can legally carry a concealed handgun while visiting these states, they’re subject to that state’s laws state and are responsible for learning about those laws. States with North Carolina Agreements Alabama Kentucky Oklahoma Alaska Louisiana Pennsylvania Arizona Michigan South Carolina Arkansas Mississippi South Dakota Colorado Missouri Tennessee Delaware Montana Texas Florida Nebraska Utah Georgia Nevada Virginia Idaho New Hampshire (resident permits only) Washington Indiana New Mexico West Virginia Iowa North Dakota Wisconsin Kansas Ohio Wyoming

NC DOJ

Its easy to find out prior to vacationing where you can go with your weapon...Amanda was not thinking was she??



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