What Roman Catholicism, Islam, Paganism, the Masons, Knights Templars and Jesuits have in common.

Originally posted by Engafan
Deuteronomy 13:1-4
1If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,
2And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them;
3Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
4Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

Throughout the New Testament, Jesus contradicts the Torah and states that its commandments are no longer applicable. For example, John 9:14 records that Jesus made a paste in violation of Shabbat, which caused the Pharisees to say (verse 16), "He does not observe Shabbat!"

That's what I meant to say, and realize I wasn't clear.

Are you serious? lol people back then didn't know where babies come from? That has to be a joke right? Or do you mean Sperm fertilizing the egg part? I'm pretty sure they figured it had something to do with a man and a woman. Maybe not scientifically but they had an IDEA.

edit on 27-1-2012 by Engafan because: (no reason given)

Jesus did not come to do away with the law; he came to make it perfect. One will not break the law if one lives by the new law, which is love. What the law was unable to do the truth with the new command was able to do. The truth is we all come from Adam and Eve, God loves us all, he offers Grace to all, His son sacrificed for all, and therefore we are all brothers.

Some of the levitical code is simply unnecessary, as most of it was about health and diet. We now know that most of the levitical code is very sound in a medical sense. The only one of the 10 Commandments that would be up for debate is the Sabbath.

For Israel the Sabbath is every Saturday, and there is some argument amongst Christians about the necessity of the Sabbath. I for one believe that if one can obey the Saturday Sabbath that it is good, but not required for salvation. For the true Sabbath, the one that Jesus says that he is lord over is the millennial reign of Christ. A day is like a 1000 years. This is my personal belief, as far as the other 9 commandments in no one have they been done away with.

But what observing the law was unable to do, make you learn how to love, the new command along with the truth can do. If you follow only the law without recognizing that we are all brothers, you will never learn how to follow the command to love.

The law teaches us imperfection, but love makes us perfect. It is the love of Christ and the gift of Grace that allows us as sinners to come back to a loving relationship with God. Without Grace we live in fear and love cannot be made perfect in fear. People feared the law and indeed we should, but Grace allows us to stop fearing God so that we can be made perfect by him.

It is not the law that has changed but the penalty for breaking the law. The penalty is still death in the spiritual since but Grace replace the law of physical death. Although one must repent and have faith to understand Grace.

Originally posted by Engafan
But you see it is the inconsistencies that drove me away. If the bible was the divinely inspired WORD of god there would be no inconsistencies.

So I looked (Googled them I won't lie) for passages that do say Joseph was Jesus' father, Acts 2:30; Acts 13:30; Romans 1:3; 2 Timothy 2:8; Hebrews 2:16; Revelations 22:16.

And for god/the holy spirit being the father, Matthew 1:18 and Luke 1:31-35.

I'm sure some bibles differ in wording. But for the word of god to be so misinterpreted by his prophets is just insane. Either he is a man or god. There are more passages that Jesus was just a man and nothing more. While only 2 that I found to show he was divinely conceived.

This is was a problem for the Early church as well, but I guess having a normal man as you figure head wasn't enough, so the popular vote won and they made Jesus a god in the flesh.

As for Jesus NOT being the messiah; Prophecies: Ezekiel 37:26-28, Messiah to build the 3rd Temple, Isaiah 43:5-6 he was to gather all the Jews back to the land of Israel, Isaiah 2:4 to usher in world peace, Zechariah 14:9 spread the word of God to unite all of mankind.

Embodiment of the Personal qualifications of the Messiah
Targum - Isaiah 11:2; Maimonides - Yad Teshuva 9:2; Was to be a greater prophet than Moses, he spoke with god face to face. Jesus the God or the man you have to consider which he is at this point. Man or God according to the bible, as the verses above show, like you said, Joseph being the father in some cases while god being the father in others.

Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24: Must be a descendant of David, Now if you say God is the father and he is the result of a Virgin birth, he cannot be from the line of David.

Deut. 13:1-4 He was to lead all the people to full Torah observance, anyone trying to change the Torah is deemed as a false prophet.

Isaiah 7:14
Alma = young woman, and not Virgin

Even if Mary can trace herself back to David, that doesn't help Jesus, since tribal affiliation goes only through the father, not mother. Cf. Numbers 1:18; Ezra 2:59.

So these were some of the reasons I had left the church at 13 or 14. All my priest could say was to have faith... that's like having faith in a wet paper towel holding back a stampede.

Engafan

I have a father and a step father. Is it not ok for me to call my step father, father? Do I not have the right to call both father?

Tribal affiliation goes only through the father. Did God tell you this? Personally when I look at my family tree I trace my affiliation back through both my father and mother. But I guess for you it doesn't matter who your family is on your mother’s side. Since women aren't important.

I am sorry but I will stick to God, Jesus and the bible, who all agree that the lineage of the woman was of equal importance to that of the man.

When Jesus died on the cross that was not the end of his kingdom on earth but more like a new beginning. The spirit of Christ lives in all.

We are all part of the body of Christ, we are the third temple. The Jews are being ushered back to Israel, and the promise to unite all mankind in peace remains as the Sabbath rest, which is the millennial reign of Christ in Revelation. Of course the Jews will find every passage they can to deny their messiah. They can only continue to deny him if they continue to justify their denial.

Regarding Jesus contradicting the Torah,I am thinking what if Jesus's G-d is different from the OT's G-d??That is why he does not really follow parts of the previous abrahamic religions????(Gnosticism)

reply to post by QuantumSeeker

Regarding Jesus contradicting the Torah,I am thinking what if Jesus's G-d is different from the OT's G-d??That is why he does not really follow parts of the previous abrahamic religions????(Gnosticism)

You may want to research Christianity if you do not realize they believe Jesus is God.

reply to post by sacgamer25


Yes you can have more than one father, but in this case we're dealing with the REAL father i.e. biological, or in the case of Jesus supernatural.

I do not think the woman is below man in importance... I was simply pointing out the Bible and what is written there about certain things like lineage.

This thread and discussions have been interesting, Oh and jmdewey60 I realize I misunderstood what it is you meant about the Jews and their blades, sorry about that.


Anyways I think I'm done here

Thanks for the discussions.

Engafan

reply to post by jmdewey60


I think there are certain early sects like Docetism which do not believe Jesus is G-d, not sure though,but if Jesus never said that he is G-d ,then why believe it in the first place????

reply to post by QuantumSeeker

. . . if Jesus never said that he is G-d ,then why believe it in the first place?

Jesus said, 'if you have seen me, you have seen the Father.'
Worship should be directed to God through His Son, in his name.
Jesus can serve that purpose in being the the representative of God to Man, at the same time as he is the representative of Man to God.
Jesus was god, or rather the same as God in relation to what he was but chose to make who he was as one of us, by emptying himself of that what and being filled with the spiritual aspects of what it means to be a god, as in the knowledge and authority, while maintaining his person-hood throughout it all even to this day.