The Movie-No-Refund Conspiracy

Notice how when you buy a 5 dollar item at some retailer, they give you a receipt. They therefore show that they care about their customers.

Caring about the customers, is always right. The opposite, to not care about the customers, is always wrong. The customer isn't always right, but if he makes a good case, he should be cared for. Money back is simple barrel trading good sense, you promise a good product and deliver or you gives the man his money back, is the way of American business and of all good business.

Except Hollywodd.

They whine about "piracy" which is utterly stupid, and I'll list the reasons why. But really do you have to wonder why they whine so much? It's because they make tons of dollars off cheating taxpayers. They film where movie industry is given tax breaks. Their unions of workers are great people, don't get me wrong, I love many of them. But it's ipso facto logically imperitive that if you get tax breaks from taxpayers, then the least you could do is give refunds when the movies suck.

Really what they had (up until flat panels and HDTV and IP) was a darkened room in which to have a group-trance storytelling. That's what they had: Hi tech sense overload 2 hour storytelling entrancement boxes called movie theatres. However, flat panel/HDTV combined with IP, simply makes the profits off their movie theatres, never recoverable. There will never be a "good old days" for the movies like there was. Because now, the home is the movie theatre.

Ok so anyway, they get tax breaks to make movies (cheating kids out of school dollars and elderly out of benefits, you know, tax breaks) and even then, their industry needs to provide a cavalcade, a variety of pictures for you, yet probably you'll see maybe 1 out of 10 movies released, in an actual movie theatre. Why? Because it costs $10 + popcorn + sodee pop for the whole family!

But though you have spent for overpriced popcorn and soda water, and though the movie is falsely marketed crap, you do not have the right to ask for a refund. The manager will make you explain why you didn't like the movie. He won't accept that you paid 5 bucks for popcorn and that you want that money back. "That money's MINE" he'll say "you ate the popcorn!!" It's like "Let's Make A Deal" where you have to choose a door and all the risk is on you!

And that's the key to their sick thinking, these movie lawyers. That's how they think, all of them. "You ate the popcorn, your money is ours." That's why they will move our leaders through their lobby coffers and bribes no doubt, to set teeth and nail upon the IP network, the greatest thing humanity has ever produced! How dare they! How dare these lawyer know-nothing BAR-associate shmucks set their hands on the IP network! All in the name of some nebulous, highly suspect "dollar amount" that they imagine they "lose" via piracy?? How about they total up all the TAXES THEY DON'T PAY to those same people??

And yet, Why are they allowed to rig the price of popcorn as well? They really are just upset at losing their popcorn monopoly because now people can make popcorn at home and have HDTV big screen.

Why do they not provide a promise of "full satisfaction" as any decent business would do? Really now, if I'm not a fan of the sick horror movies, why should I have to be forced to fund a movie-company that makes movies I don't approve of, through the inflated costs of the whole industry? That's absurd. Only a total idiot or a lawyers or some con man looking to make a nickle, would make crap movies on tax breaks and then pass legislation against the same taxpayers whose money they won't refund.

So the whole thing is very simple, if these movie companies don't want their Corporate charters revoked, then they will sit down, and shut the hell up. Otherwise the people will seize Hollywodd outright, and make movies people want. That's what I think. People should have movie houses where they can watch YouTube. People will just disqualify Hollywodd and let it fellate itself in the corner, if they persist in hiring Hessian-esque lawyers and en-titled squires to use law-as-weapon against the people. Have you seen that one tactic where they put some crap-ass movie out there and then track the IP of people who download it and then SUE ALL THE IP ADDRESS as 'John Does'?? Frikking unbelievable the fishhooks that lawyers will try to float over the IP network. The won't protect it, they'll kill it to make a nickle.

Seriously, these are just corporations, they're not real people. Their only tool is dollars, and they are trying to wreck the IP commo network in some quest for dollars that they reall don't deserve anyway, primarily because they have failure as their only business model. Literally the movie business is about putting off costs and/or payment and deferring taxes as much as possible. If there weren't labor unions in their industry, it'd be even worse. Or would it? Some Directors hate the unions and would like to be able to pay Federal minimum wage for light technicians and actors? Haha, they all are like puppies sucking off the teat of the taxpayer, aka, the theatregoer. All of them exist on the shoulders of young kids on dates who get money from their parents. The very teenagers who pirate are the only ones who even go to the movies anyway!!

These people wouldn't know a good thing if it bit them. They just want to justify their paychecks which are absurd for these crap movies and their whole model where 50% of the cost of the movie is advertising. What a bunch of morons who need to spend half their budget for each movie to promote it! In fact, all these advertising schemes pay people back under the table anyway.

And finally, these films, if they're good which more than half are not, well, they easily make their money back in international distribution rights and merchandising! So the good films would make their money back even if they gave them away free! How much merch do movie Co's sell, compared to the cost of the movie? International markets can pay for the refund at the theatre. Let the foreigners pay for the films because if it sucks in the international market, chances are it sucked at home and we all got stiffed with 50 dollar family trip to the movies for a crap film.

So really, unless they really want to deal with the American people, Hollywodd needs to:

1: Admit they are tax dodgers, and this weakens their claim against pirates whose families lose tax monies thereby.

2: Give a receipt and "full satisfaction" promise. If it ain't a "Jurassic Park" type experience, full refunds in the lobby.

3: Have better prices at the theatre, stop spending millions upon millions on stupid advertising of crap movies, and make the foreign markets pay for the films first if you can't do your business right in the US and be taxed and give refunds like a normal business.

its like when you go into a restruant, you eat your meal, then decide you didnt like it, you cant get your money back, ytou already consumed the meal, the same with movies, you saw it, you didnt like it, youre not gonna get your money back

ETA: you already received your ticket, USED it to watch the movie, you shouldnt get your money back. Read reviews of movies next time you decide to go see another one

S&F I totally agree. The only thing is, if they were to give refunds for dissatisfaction, even if you were satisfied, you would be stupid not to get the refund. So that's probably not gonna work.

reply to post by smallpeeps


Another one of the entitlers. You are entitled to get your money back whenever you deem it fit, and everything should just be done your way, and while your at it, tax you less, and keep sending the checks to your house everymonth right? Give me a break, if you don't want to spend your money, you dont have to spend it. Get over the fact that you have to put a little effort in to your life.

Some good points, but I haven't been to an overpriced movie at a cinema in ages.
If you work on a budget, and want uncapped Internet, then that's the sacrifice.

Everything nowadays is for kids or teens, and then it's a lot of plagiarism or remakes.
And most of these remakes are infinitely WORSE than the originals.

Shopping mall cinemas close to me no longer show international art productions.
The dumbing-down of the population is upon us.

But why stop at movies?

I want a refund from cable TV for every idiotic celebrity reality TV show they broadcast, especially the fake Kardashian wedding!

At least if a film is crap it disappears into infamy, but if the Kardashians are fake then we get endless magazine coverage on that story, and that family's shenanigans are in your face with every sliver of media.

A bad film one can avoid.
But, somehow paying for media in some form, without having to read about "reality stars", becomes impossible.

What has happened to mainstream film is probably very sad, but what has happened to wider media is a tragedy.

reply to post by smallpeeps


I very rarely go to see a movie in a theater. To me the majority of movies (anymore) are not interesting and too expensive.

I think the theaters should have a policy that if within the first 1/2 hour of the movie...if the movie goer does not like the movie...and they are going to leave...the theater should refund their money.

Do what I do: Wait til a move releases to video, well after there are a lot of reviews and online trailers to watch, THEN go rent it at Redbox for a buck if it looks appealing. Even then most movies suck, but at least you only wasted $1 and use the gas because you were going to the store anyway.

Most people don't have that kind of patience, especially young people.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
its like when you go into a restruant, you eat your meal, then decide you didnt like it, you cant get your money back, ytou already consumed the meal, the same with movies, you saw it, you didnt like it, youre not gonna get your money back

ETA: you already received your ticket, USED it to watch the movie, you shouldnt get your money back. Read reviews of movies next time you decide to go see another one

edit on 1/20/2012 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)

How wrong you are!!
In the UK, even if you eat the meal, if you didnt like it you CAN ask for a refund and the management have the responsibility to give you one.

reply to post by caladonea


If your avatar is a picture of you then i have to say you are an extremley beautiful woman.
If it isnt im sure your ok anyway!!!

reply to post by smallpeeps


Hollywood doesn't sport the luxury of customer satisfaction. You buy a ticket without knowing what you'll get until after you get it. And because you cannot return the experience, you can't get a refund.

It's always been like this but since the rise of the internet, the industry has become overly protective of itself outwardly while melting from within. This is why we have SOPA on our doorstep. They feel like we owe them.

The culture of Hollywood (entertainment) doesn't accept the consumer on the same level as most every other business. They don't see themselves as selling a product unless it is pirated. Then it is like unholy shoplifting and you should die. But strictly from the box office to viewer? They own the concept and you.

It is this imbalance that has created the problems we have today.

Originally posted by HomerinNC
its like when you go into a restruant, you eat your meal, then decide you didnt like it, you cant get your money back, ytou already consumed the meal, the same with movies, you saw it, you didnt like it, youre not gonna get your money back

ETA: you already received your ticket, USED it to watch the movie, you shouldnt get your money back. Read reviews of movies next time you decide to go see another one

edit on 1/20/2012 by HomerinNC because: (no reason given)

Haha, hilarious that some paradigms in this world can equate MOVIES to FOOD. And tell me, if movies be food, then shall we say that titanic be cake and Waterworld is like raw fish? Haha yes please continue with your inane analogy I want to hear more.

Yes of course, with our product called "all movies everywhere", we literally FEED you. You owe us, and if you sit down and your little eyeballs drink in the nourishment of our wonderful framing psycho-dramas, then you owe us for the pleasure.

Tell me this: Do you think any nation would not have a movie industry? Seriously friends, do you think making movies in the digital age, is hard? It ain't.

And even the greatest Director of movies, survives on taxpayers and their pocketbooks. And he is socially inferior to even the most average farmer. That's the plain TRUTH.

Originally posted by andersensrm
reply to post by smallpeeps

 

Another one of the entitlers. You are entitled to get your money back whenever you deem it fit, and everything should just be done your way, and while your at it, tax you less, and keep sending the checks to your house everymonth right? Give me a break, if you don't want to spend your money, you dont have to spend it. Get over the fact that you have to put a little effort in to your life.

Your reply is worthless. Something about somebody being entitled? Wow. Try to come back, space your sentences out, and type a rebuttal or reply to my points above.

Uh anyway, what I am saying is that there will always be propaganda and bread and circus if it's a Roman/Latin authority system like America has, so we really do sounds like idiots when we talk about the film industry as being a real company. Seriously friends, they spend millions of dollars, on every piece of trash and they make money spending it by kicking business to their friends, it's one great big circle jerk. I'm not saying there's not great people making movies, but their hubris has reached its limit for me. If they think they can use their petty moneyloving schemes to affect the free IP network, then they're going to get their corporate charters revoked, plain and simple.

You seem to be forgetting that it is lawyers (modern hired Hessian-esque soldiers) who put the blade to the IP network's throat at Hollywodd's behest. These mercenaries think they can destroy a free thing, on behalf of a corrupt, money laundering, tax break seeking, failure producing industry. But don't get me wrong, I have great love for many people in Hollywodd, and these people don't give a crap if their film gets pirated. Sure they've got unions though, and the union boss is all like "Well dammit, we need to collect our revenues from our work!"

Seriously, does anyone think writing and acting, is work commensurate with a lobby force such as what Hollwodd weilds? Seriously, does anyone think that any movie executive or accountant or employee, produces a product that should allow them to purchase our elected leaders?

Tell me this: If two out of three branches of the US gov't say that the IP network is a danger or a piracy haven or whatnot, will you comply, or will you move the military to protect the IP space? The lawyers think they can move superior forces into position faster than you IP plebes.

Please do use this thread to also discuss the fact that a movie industry could exist which saw "piracy" as simply "demand". It's not entitlement, it simply asking a stupid industry that panders to its audience, to grow up and become a real business, and to take their frikking hands off the throat of the IP network, or else they'll have their corporate charter revoked.

As to how you revoke the corporate charters, I think most of their tax schemes co through corporate persons so those persons can only be enabled at the moving of the power of the people, and the people can revoke any corporate charter that they have enabled, and if the corporations try to destroy what's free, then they are the enemies of humanity. Right now IP network is free or damn near free, and even then they seek to throttle it and shape it like some legal-bonsai tree. They don't understand from where true power derives.

"entitlement". Sheesh! Movies are easy to make, and yes, humans are entitled to bread and circus of good quality, as neither item is expensive.

reply to post by smallpeeps

And that's the key to their sick thinking, these movie lawyers. That's how they think, all of them. "You ate the popcorn, your money is ours."

First of all the ticket sales go to the studio. The food and drink is where the theater makes the majority of the money. If you want a comfortable place to sit your rear end and a clean bathroom the cost is expensive concessions. If you want to sit in an older theater with cheap chairs and dirty toilets, go to one. They are usually cheaper.

Learn a little something about the system before you start slamming it.

Why do they not provide a promise of "full satisfaction" as any decent business would do?

Because art is in the eye of the beholder. Entertainment is subjective and not objective. Millions of people find Transformers 3 to be highly entertaining. That doesn't mean the same number don't. You can not hope to please everybody with art.

It is unlike returning a phone to Target. If a phone doesn't work properly, or isn't loud enough that is an objective problem that can be diagnosed and corrected. It is also something you could not reasonably know before hand. With all of the reviews and trailers at your finger tips these days, you should have a reasonable idea of a movie's quality before going. If you do not that is your fault.

Really now, if I'm not a fan of the sick horror movies, why should I have to be forced to fund a movie-company that makes movies I don't approve of, through the inflated costs of the whole industry?

You're not forced to do anything. You could simply not watch any movie from that company or it's imprints. Just like if you don't like to read Stephen King and don't want to support his work you can stop buying any books from Simon and Schuster publishing.

Otherwise the people will seize Hollywodd outright, and make movies people want.

First of all, if people didn't want to see the movies they wouldn't be going to theaters or pirating them. Movies people don't want to see fail. Of course there is a huge independent film market out there. So, you could just do a little research and actually find movies you like from people that are making indie movies and distributing them on line or straight to video.

The very teenagers who pirate are the only ones who even go to the movies anyway!!

Actually most of the money is made off of people taking their kids to see G and PG movies. There is also a large demographic of over 35 year olds that go to the movies for "the experience." Teenage date movies are not the only or even the largest share of the market.

So the good films would make their money back even if they gave them away free!

If a movie is given away for free the studio can not charge for international distribution. The person distributing it wouldn't make enough money off of the act. They could pack advertising breaks in to the movie to pay for the cost, but then they would be ruining the intended art of the movie.

and make the foreign markets pay for the films first

Here we get to the real point. You want the rest of the world to pay so that you can enjoy the movie for free in America. Isn't this the very "screw the world" attitude the rest of the globe hates us for?

Here is an idea, work around the industry, learn the industry, and then speak when you have knowledge of the complexities of the issue. Stop expecting others to pay for your right to enjoy movies you want to see. Stop expecting others to cater everything to your taste. Oh and stop expecting others to pay you for not taking time to do a little research so that you can spend your money wisely.

Originally posted by DarkKnight76
S&F I totally agree. The only thing is, if they were to give refunds for dissatisfaction, even if you were satisfied, you would be stupid not to get the refund. So that's probably not gonna work.

That's not true.

The truth is that when they spend the money well, you get an awesome movie.

Sure there'd be some cheapasses who'd even then insist, "Oh I want my money back" but truthfully, the costs of screening a digital film, are essentially NIL. So who cares if some people are non-tippers and jerks like that. Heck if you want to really make your point, then I'll agree and so let's say that you can only get a refund if you put your name and picture up in the lobby. That way under every movie's name, there'd be a list of people who asked for their money back. Therefore, under the movie titled "Diehard", there'd be some pictures of people who asked for their money back, but all those people, would be scumsucking tards who are essentially stealing from the cookie jar, because Diehard as a movie, is worth 100 of the other movies! So it's like they could shame those who, as you say, will always ask for their money back. If I saw the guy who took his money back from Diehard or Dances With Wolves or some great movie, I'd make fun of him big time. I have no problem with the outrageous costs associated with the movie theatre if they make great movies and not just stupid pandering propaganda.

You ever notice that some of their best movies, come from books? Yeah. Well so therefore if I bought the book, then how can they charge me to see the movie? I am entitled to experience the story. I guess my point is that J. K. Rowling would still be quite well remunerated even if nobody paid to see Harry Potter movies. Well anyway, they never mention all the marketing streams, so really, even with just the Harry Potter merchandising of the movies, they could pay for the filming of the movies themselves. I'm saying they could film the movies at whatever cost, and all the t-shirts and merch would pay for it, so their idea that they can proceed in some legal dance with their hands on the throat of the IP network, is sheer lunacy on their part. All corporate charters can be revoked, and the people have a right to decent bread and circus without being fleeced.

Hollwood lawyers (modern Hessians who are entitled in the UK) go to court to hobble the US IP network. They now use legal power, money power, and money laundering power, to buy politicians, to squeeze the plebes.

What if, when you file your tax return, you can check a set of boxes that allow you to choose what genre of films you liked? This at least would allow the plebes to use the IRS for something good, since the IRS conspires with Hollywodd to allow them their tax schemes. At least if you could vote using your IRS tax forms, you could force Hollywodd to make the films and subjects people want. Oh well I mean unless what you want is vampire movies because that's what they make all day but I personally think vampires are a stupid subject so I would indicate that on my IRS form. You see?

Ideally you could check a box that says: "If you the IRS, allow some movie making corporation's lawyers to hobble the IP network, you'll never see another tax dollar from me. And if you want to come get me and imprison me for being a tax protestor in this way, then you can put me in the cel right next to Wesley Snipes himself."

But yes you are right, and yet still, the good movies will always make a nice profit, and merchandise makes big bank that they know how to hide. If you look deeply into the funding of movies, then what I am saying will be even more true because people want bread and circus and when it's good, they'll pay for it and gladly.

Hollywood doesn't benefit by the popcorn, candy, soda sales nor the price of the tickets. The owner of the theater does. So take it to the man. I'm sure if you screamed enough about how crappy a movie was in front of ticket buyers, you might get a voucher for another movie. Or, you might get kicked out. Either way, you expressed yourself to the proper people.

I have requested, and received, a free ticket when I didn't like a movie. This has only happened once, but the manager did give me a free pass (actually 2) when I expressed my disappointment in the movie.

Originally posted by Gridrebel
Hollywood doesn't benefit by the popcorn, candy, soda sales nor the price of the tickets. The owner of the theater does. So take it to the man. I'm sure if you screamed enough about how crappy a movie was in front of ticket buyers, you might get a voucher for another movie. Or, you might get kicked out. Either way, you expressed yourself to the proper people.

I hear you. But the movie houses have a monopoly. The fact that their pimp (the industry) bleeds them and beats them, is their business. They chose to be whores to the industry and they take it out on us and then when people just download the thing and avoid the hassle, then the IP network is threatened? That's stupid. Movie houses could be much different, and they could also be city-owned and they could show 16mm prints for free, movies that have already made their money 10x over are the better movies anyway, there's thousands of paid-for movies that citizens should be able to view in groups, without being bled dry by all these middlemen. Making movies isn't hard, give me 10 million and I'll make a blockbuster and pirat eit and I'll make 100 million from international and merchandising rights, etc. Hell I'd just buy a decent video game screenplay since those are another example of where the movie industry poaches their "ideas" anyway.

So they're threatening the Internet, in order to get more of us into theaters? If that's the case then I propose that the theatre owners have their local muni charters revoked and let the city zone movie showing houses. Just nationalize the movie houses if it's gonna be crap anyway. Municipal group movie houses where people can show YouTube movies and documentaries, on digital projectors. Evict the popcorn monopolists if their masters threaten the IP network. Every town has movie theaters and apparently these lawyers threatening to hobble the Internet want more people in the theaters, that's fine, just run it like a real business and offer 100% satisfaction or money back like customers deserve. If it's not as good as Jurassic Park or DieHard, sorry but don't worry because when you dub it into 100 foreign languages, the humor and context will make the movie pay for itself overseas. There is no reason to punish Americans as a group, for the failures of the film industry, and their partners the popcorn monopolists. Don't hurt IP or Americans.

Oh and also, yo ho and a bottle o rum. Don't forget the jolly roger is the same deaths head as on the SS uniforms. Hmm, who flies the skull and crossbones? Was it Jolly Roger the pirate or Himmler the SS jackass? I heard Himmler and his friends babysat Interpol during WW2? That was sure nice of them.

In truth you will see that this word "piracy" is only applied by them who are in their souls and their lives and their threats to freedom, the greatest pirates of all. A pirate pulls along side your ship and takes your rights away, just like how these modern pirates just threatened to behead the IP network, the greatest and free-est and most entertaining medium ever created by humanity.

In many ways this is a rant of ignorance. First you have to distinguish between Film Makers and the Theaters - places where they are shown. The law mandated that they are NOT the same entity. Your rant suggests they are.

Now on to your point about taxes and taking the starving children's money. Wrong again. In CA where production is based, tax breaks are few. In other states looking LURE production they do offer tax breaks, as a way to bring outside money into the state. If you know anything about debt based economics and fiat currency you'd know that in order to pay off debt, you must take another's debt notes, you can't pay off a debt from within, you must take from another. Though this is a rather funny topic. Texas gave the production of Machete 20 cents back on every dollar spent for having the movie filmed in texas. Only texas decided to simply ignore the contract and keep the money in the end because they didn't like the movie. So you need to rant on both sides.

Lastly, I have gotten my money back - often, when the film is shown in poor quality or other viable reasons then preference. Do you return books? Magazines? Music? Not really because the are considered things that are subject to a personal preference and not function. While you are right that a great many things in our society are returned without issue, most are due to function and a purely subjective preference.

Originally posted by crankyoldman
Though this is a rather funny topic. Texas gave the production of Machete 20 cents back on every dollar spent for having the movie filmed in texas.

Ah yes that great film, "Machete".

Nobody felt gypped after that one eh?

Some movies get pirated because that's the only way they'd be watched. Even still, I wouldn't even download that bucket of #.

Originally posted by crankyoldman
In many ways this is a rant of ignorance. First you have to distinguish between Film Makers and the Theaters - places where they are shown. The law mandated that they are NOT the same entity. Your rant suggests they are.

It's two idiots trying to wreck the Internet, not something the law decided.

Law is a weapon. It is a straight razor which people use to dissect things. That is the truth.

Lawyers just threatened to hack the IP network via the leaders of our country. And to make it worse, the Anon jacktards now have been hollowed out and are being set up like patsies and they are attacking DOJ which is totally stupid, they're trick-clicking people into firing the LOIC device --This is not anon being useful, it's basically DOJ making the IP network a battlefield.

So yeah I know you think you know something, but you've yet to prove you know anything useful. Try again.

reply to post by smallpeeps

Really what they had (up until flat panels and HDTV and IP) was a darkened room in which to have a group-trance storytelling. That's what they had: Hi tech sense overload 2 hour storytelling entrancement boxes called movie theatres. However, flat panel/HDTV combined with IP, simply makes the profits off their movie theatres, never recoverable. There will never be a "good old days" for the movies like there was. Because now, the home is the movie theatre.

This is really a very key part of whats going on, at least in my opinion.

Theaters only have so much time, with the way news travels these days, the speed of the internet...
No we dont have to wait till the two thumbs guys finally do a review, no we dont have to wait for the
day old newspaper! We can follow tweets, instantly find out whats a bomb of a movie too.

So the edge they had, they are losing it. And still they cant make a decent movie more
than a couple times a year, if that!

So they started in on the cut throat moves, which is what SOPA is all about.
Myself not being a pirate, I would pay to see a decent movie, rent a decent one...alas! There are none!
I could care less and actually hope for the demise of Hollywood. Not holding my breath.

In the mean time they can keep all of the GMO corn they pop!

S&F from me!

bts~