What the UK does not want Scotland to know about independance

reply to post by michael1983l


To be perfectly honest I know not where I stand on this issue of the referendum. I'm yet to be persuaded by either the pro-unionist or the pro-independence camp. I have more than two years to research and find out tho' - and I will do my level best to ensure that when I do cast my vote it will an informed choice.

They were discussing the pre capita subsidy issue on R4 last week. The English analyst (his nationality does have some relevance given the subject matter) stated that all things considered that what appears to be more dosh being spent in Scotland evens itself it out and that, in fact, payments per capita is generally about equal to spending on English constituents.

We're all in deficit here. Isn't the UK currently experiencing unprecedented cut backs and tax rises for that very reason - with more to come?

However, the outright hostility contained in some of the posts (particularly on this thread) could easil sway me to vote for independence if the same, or similar arguments continue to be used.

They 'keep negging us out man'....fear mongering. repeatedly telling us of all the potential negatives of splitting from the Union and with very little forthcoming as to why it would be in Scotland's interest to remain with the Union.

There are positives and negatives for both side of the debate - as a life habit I tend to look for the positive side of negative (cos there always is one). As you correctly point out a 'positive' for England should we elect for independence is that we would no longer cry 'it's not our fault- it's theirs' when/if the proverbial hits the fan.

I am always suspicious when our politicians unite as they did when their so called ultra democratic petitions came up with the 100,000 names required to discuss our (the UK's) relationship with Europe. A three line whip was in place - unheard of. That whip was against the democratic wishes of the citizenry.

Now they've united against Scottish independence....why? Money - as always. Oil....uuurgh - is not the main generator of wealth for the Scottish economy but it is significant. Just as the war in Iraq was about oil - not holding the assets as such - but for control of that asset.....for England to lose control of the majority of UK oil resources puts it in a much more vulnerable position.

I took the liberty of posting a thread on this subject Truth, Lies, Oil and Scotland which is a documentary made by BBC Scotland which will perhaps clear up precisely what the oil economy means to Scotland and what it has meant for the UK over the past 40 years. This is the reason why I believe the UK parties have united in a chorus against Scottish independence. We can discount all Scottish mp's opinions in Westminster due to their personal concern at the potential loss of their generous salaries and expense accounts.

reply to post by duality90

nonsense. Scotland might have had money from oil in the past, but it isn't anywhere near as lucrative as people like to believe (anymore). An independent scotland would be a financial nightmare - chances are you aren't going to be allowed to use the £ ... I don't even know if I have to go further than that. It is really a very serious undertaking to propose introducing an entirely new currency into international money markets.

Over a 25 year period £250,000,000,000 went directly from Scotland to Westminster. That's £50,000 per capita which corrects any perceived imbalance in per capita spending (insofar as it equates to the £2000 per head apparent shortfall on Scottish income to spending ratio).

reply to post by christina-66


Like I said, I believe the truth lies in the middle of the two arguments so I think we agree. I personally think that when the vote comes, if the outcome is to stay in the UK then I think the scottish need to stop using england as an excuse for any failures and actually pull together as a nation.

reply to post by michael1983l


To be fair the very existence of the Scottish Executive (which Alex Salmond quickly renamed the Scottish Government) has largely put paid to the cries of woe directed down south. That was at it's peak under Thatcher (when John Major took over from her Scotland had not one single conservative mp - now I think we have one...perhaps) and Thatcher did use this place to test out policies - the most memorable being the poll tax. Our paltry protests paled into insignificance to the mass protests generated down south - which quickly drew a halt to the whole sorry and unfair experiment.

The thing is that Scotland used to be predominantly conservative. Perhaps - given it's own government it may cease to be the 'statist little nation' we were described as being by Anabelle Goldie (who was leader of the Scottish conservatives until recently).

Scotland needs to be freed from the claws of the british who have ravished and raped Scotland for centuries.

Go scotland!!!

Originally posted by christina-66
reply to post by michael1983l

 

...... which quickly drew a halt to the whole sorry and unfair experiment.

I know I'm in minority but actually I liked the Poll Tax. To me it's a lot fairer than the current system.

But then I have a lot of non mainstream ideas I would prefer to what we have at the moment

reply to post by bigyin


I too believe the Poll tax was a fairer system. Why should a house with 10 adults in, pay the same council tax as a house with 2 adults or even 1. This would lower council tax for most families rather than increase it.

reply to post by michael1983l
The only good thing to come out of the poll tax was the riots.

You say a house with ten adults would pay more than a house with two would be fairer. What if those 10 were poor and lived in one room whereas the two were stinking rich and lived in a home with 20 rooms?

No. It was not a fair tax and got what it deserved, the boot and so did the old boot that tried to impose it.

reply to post by michael1983l


Scotland would be in an excellent position. One they could develop their own currency, and combined with their unique exports and hydrocarbons...

Let's face it, England's only resource is: Castles and the Royal Family. England has been raping Wales for Centuries. Now it is so bad that many Welsh can't afford to buy homes in their own country because the evil English want to buy second homes in the Welsh countryside.

Combined with England's plan of multiculturalism which amounts to genocide. Some things are more important then wealth. And ending the English's final solution, and preserving Scottish, N Irish and Welsh heritage is far more important than empowering a skeletal corpse of one of the most evil empires to ever walk the earth.

The Scottish are better off on their own.

That post about the oil is total nonsense. The oil in the north sea is profitable, but is no longer market-moving as it might have been once upon a time.

Probably owned or managed by the Crown estate anyways to be honest i.e. not the property of scotland, nor does scotland have superior rights to it. The truth is, without the Union, Scotland doesn't actually produce very much. Economically, independence is probably not viable for long.

reply to post by korathin


You seriously do not have a clue about the ralationship between England Scotland and Wales.

And ... genocide ? wow , there`s a whole new way of looking at multiculturalism .... you know ... the thousands of foreigners that move to England , most of whom sit on their @rses all day claiming benefits , when have the English ever rounded them up and put them in open graves ? get a grip will you.

Scotland`s exports are whiskey (which is now created and sold all-over the world) , shortbread (which is now created and sold all-over the world) , kilts (which are now created and sold all-over the world) , and the Oil that passes through Scotland and is owned by half of the world .......... Scotland`s financial situation wouldnt change , untill the pound is took away from them , they will need to adopt the Euro for the short term , and risk severe financial dificulty whilst creating their own currency , the British water borders would stay the same , and Scotland would effectivly be surrounded by Britain.

What Scotland should be thinking about doing is claiming that big old chunk of land that broke off.
They`d have more success at that than they would at being "independent".

Originally posted by RockLobster
reply to post by korathin

 

You seriously do not have a clue about the ralationship between England Scotland and Wales.

And ... genocide ? wow , there`s a whole new way of looking at multiculturalism .... you know ... the thousands of foreigners that move to England , most of whom sit on their @rses all day claiming benefits , when have the English ever rounded them up and put them in open graves ? get a grip will you.

Scotland`s exports are whiskey (which is now created and sold all-over the world) , shortbread (which is now created and sold all-over the world) , kilts (which are now created and sold all-over the world) , and the Oil that passes through Scotland and is owned by half of the world .......... Scotland`s financial situation wouldnt change , untill the pound is took away from them , they will need to adopt the Euro for the short term , and risk severe financial dificulty whilst creating their own currency , the British water borders would stay the same , and Scotland would effectivly be surrounded by Britain.

What Scotland should be thinking about doing is claiming that big old chunk of land that broke off.
They`d have more success at that than they would at being "independent".

Wow, you must be good at ignoring reality.

When I said multiculturalism=English Planned genocide, I meant the English are using multiculturalism to homogenize the Welsh, English and Scottish into "one people".

Akin to how Anglo(English) American's used a combination of terrorism, silent genocide against rival Caucasian ethnicity's and outright persecution of African American's(as a way of saying "see we aren't that different, we have the same skin color bs") to maintain hegemony in the USA.

That oil is in Scottish waters and thus belongs to Scotland. This is what I mean when I call the English a parasitic people. They can only survive by stealing from others. Everything shiny in the world they believe belongs to them. Personally I think Zionism is a sham, because behind Zionism I see the zeal of Anglo's in proclaiming themselves the "master race". Most of what is done in the name of Zionism actually makes life that much more difficult for Jewish people(but greatly benefits those of English descent).

And once Scotland goes, Wales will probably be in full revolt. As the Welsh have been trying to re-establish their own language(that English tried suppressing for well over a thousand years) in schools, churches and areas of governance.

P.S

Scotland could create their own currency without even having to lean on the Euro at all.

reply to post by korathin


Haha , that Oil is in British waters and belongs to the companies that drill for it , infact , Norway has more swing than Scotland when it boils down to Oil. Scotland is nothing more than - the man in the middle - .

And no - England is not trying to create "one people" , we live together purely to save ourselves from more sensless wars over lines on a map, we`re not allowed to even comment on foreigners in England , you can be charged with racial abuse for saying words like " Paki " , so the idea that England is trying to create a "one people" out of English , Scottish ,and Welsh ... and describing it as genocide, is laughably childish.

I sense sour grapes ...... either that or a poor education.

"Scotland could create their own currency without even having to lean on the Euro at all. "
distribute it to all corners of scotland , and have it recognised as legal tender , then recall all British Sterling and replace it with Scottish currency ........... over-night ? Yeah , Narnia`s that way --- >

reply to post by RockLobster

"Scotland could create their own currency without even having to lean on the Euro at all. "
distribute it to all corners of scotland , and have it recognised as legal tender , then recall all British Sterling and replace it with Scottish currency ........... over-night ? Yeah , Narnia`s that way --- >

We already have the Scottish pound.....we have always used the Scottish pound. The Scottish pound is not recognised as an international currency so before I go abroad I simply go to the local bank and exchange my Scottish pounds for either the local currency of my destination or for Bank of England notes. What precisely requires to change in that scenario should we vote for independence?

Most notes used in Scotland are Scottish notes, not sterling.

When travelling to England many shops and businesses will not accpet Scottish notes so we have to convert to English money before we go to England.

I don't see what the problem is, Scotland already has it's own currency and notes.

reply to post by duality90


This vid investigates the future of Scotland's oil resources (courtesy of developing technologies)

reply to post by bigyin

Most notes used in Scotland are Scottish notes, not sterling.

Scottish and Northern Irish banknotes are unusual, firstly because they are issued by retail banks, not central banks, and secondly, as they are not legal tender anywhere in the UK – not even in Scotland or Northern Ireland – they are in fact promissory notes

en.wikipedia.org...

When travelling to England many shops and businesses will not accpet Scottish notes so we have to convert to English money before we go to England.

Probably because they are not legal tender, as described above.
Personally I never had any problem taking them in my betting shops or in my pubs but.....?

And there isn't a hope in hell of you using them abroad.

So, no right to British Sterling, looks like the only options are Scotlands own currency - the Scottish pound? - or the Euro.

Originally posted by SupersonicSerpent
but it wont happen.the only downfall is that all our weaponry secrets are revealed to the scotts.they best not start selling them to china.

I enjoyed the above, made me chuckle.

Did anyone see the Paxman interview with Alex Salmond yesterday? It was hilarious.

Here is some of it here, www.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by korathin

Originally posted by RockLobster
reply to post by korathin

 

You seriously do not have a clue about the ralationship between England Scotland and Wales.

And ... genocide ? wow , there`s a whole new way of looking at multiculturalism .... you know ... the thousands of foreigners that move to England , most of whom sit on their @rses all day claiming benefits , when have the English ever rounded them up and put them in open graves ? get a grip will you.

Scotland`s exports are whiskey (which is now created and sold all-over the world) , shortbread (which is now created and sold all-over the world) , kilts (which are now created and sold all-over the world) , and the Oil that passes through Scotland and is owned by half of the world .......... Scotland`s financial situation wouldnt change , untill the pound is took away from them , they will need to adopt the Euro for the short term , and risk severe financial dificulty whilst creating their own currency , the British water borders would stay the same , and Scotland would effectivly be surrounded by Britain.

What Scotland should be thinking about doing is claiming that big old chunk of land that broke off.
They`d have more success at that than they would at being "independent".

Wow, you must be good at ignoring reality.

When I said multiculturalism=English Planned genocide, I meant the English are using multiculturalism to homogenize the Welsh, English and Scottish into "one people".

Akin to how Anglo(English) American's used a combination of terrorism, silent genocide against rival Caucasian ethnicity's and outright persecution of African American's(as a way of saying "see we aren't that different, we have the same skin color bs") to maintain hegemony in the USA.

That oil is in Scottish waters and thus belongs to Scotland. This is what I mean when I call the English a parasitic people. They can only survive by stealing from others. Everything shiny in the world they believe belongs to them. Personally I think Zionism is a sham, because behind Zionism I see the zeal of Anglo's in proclaiming themselves the "master race". Most of what is done in the name of Zionism actually makes life that much more difficult for Jewish people(but greatly benefits those of English descent).

And once Scotland goes, Wales will probably be in full revolt. As the Welsh have been trying to re-establish their own language(that English tried suppressing for well over a thousand years) in schools, churches and areas of governance.

P.S

Scotland could create their own currency without even having to lean on the Euro at all.

Sorry but i have to pull you up here as you are talking a load of rubbish. A tiny minority of welsh people have been trying to re-establish their own language, nothing more. In point of fact, despite the fact that it was reintroduced into schools in Wales and given its own language tv show, actual numbers of people who speak it are so small that the tv channel was taken off air - they actually had shows with ZERO viewers.

However, as you seem to be taking aim at England i don't expect this simple fact to alter your opinion!