Logical Proofs of Infinite External Consciousness

Originally posted by kalisdad

Originally posted by BBalazs

Originally posted by kalisdad
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

I always love your threads Mnemth....

don't really have time to read more than the OP at this point, but I wanted to chime in.

from my beliefs, I totally agree with you that consciousness is not only a force that originates from outside our universe, but it is also the driving force that created our universe to begin with. The idea of heaven is the place we all came from before we decided to experience life in this universe.

It's a bit late here, so I'll be checking back in tomorrow and reading up on what others have to add to the topic.

S&F

1 question:
Why does it have to be outside the universe?
Why cant it be the universe?
Or be a part of the universe.
I understand you wrote believe, so i am not mocking you, i am just showing alternative paths.
I write this so we can dialogus.

I say outside the universe because it is the only direct reference to "God" that I can fathom.

Either the universe was created and consciousness was formed from this, or consciousness existed before the universe, and it was the infinite energy of all combined consciousness throught that theorist suggest was a requirement to cause the universe to be created and expand(Big Bang)

Now before you get the wrong idea about my beliefs, keep in mind that I have an extreme disdain for organized religion of all sorts, with the exception of Buddhism, which is far from an organize religion IMO.

Today I don't subscribe to anyone elses beliefs, I keep my own. I think most are all misguided and this is why we see them all fighting each other proclaiming their beliefs to be the one and only truth.

the truth to me is that we are all part of the same energy source, this drives our consciousness as individuals.

I have no problems with faith, god.
I have problems when one sees god in science where there is no.
Or there is god everywhere, so a science experiment cannot be concluded as proof of god, unless you think he can be so easily understood.
Thats my only problem.
There is no god where nemeth said.
It could be elsewhere.
It could be everywhere.(then the experiment makes no differnce)
Using science to prove god is wrong.
Science is a spiritual path to better undestand our universe.
It is non aligned.

I agree, we're in a system of infinity and if you can say, do I exist, you do, and therefore you are not a toaster/AI, then you have always existed in one form or other and will always exist. But all energies upgrade too. And as the universe seems to be a hologram there are higher levels. So this is school.

infinity itself needs deep thinking. You cannot take a measurement,no matter where you move the point you measure from, it is still the same endlessness all around, so there is no technical, bigger/smaller, higher/lower, past/future, there is no time. There is perceptionally all of this of course.

Also, Horton Hears A Who. The potential for infinity within a grain of sand, that an infinitely sized/volumed Intellect, (in no time, in the whole of its being), could be inserted in, as infinity is equal in endless, even in something perceived as small, and the infinity within a grain of sand is = to that in a star, and to the infinity without.

Also you can't put a boundary on infinity, person/place/thing. Infinite energies, animate/intellect and inanimate.

Do you ever wonder where the light comes from when you strike a match or the sun shines. Scientists don't really know.

I remembered all my life beaming into the womb as a very conscious shooting star or beam of light, and Higher Self, ie Future Self, (remember there is no time), told me to be a loving warm ray of sunlight.

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by Maslo

 

I agree with you. The brain estimates, it doesn't KNOW. Highly compressed information.

The OP is just a wishcaster, like so many others. Everybody wants to deny death. To deny the suffering and loss in this world. They want to believe in an after-life. They want to believe in a supreme ruler. They want to believe in a greater meaning for all of this. They have to believe. They must. This is non-negotiable. I could sit here and talk with a wall and it's more productive than this. What one has to understand is that what's behind religion is behind a lot of other things. It's cognitive dissonance. Most people, if not all, cannot absorb the truth of this reality. We're all mortal. There's no after-life. Our local reality is deterministic. This is the classical world in physics. At the quantum level, there's more unpredictability and if free will could ever be said to exist it would exist at that scale, not on the classical scale. People react violently to this idea in a very predictable way. To prevent the before-mentioned cognitive dissonance, they deny and create dramas and faiths and every imaginable excuse to escape the truth.

The good thing about determinism is that you don't know you don't have free will. The best case scenario is that quantum scale phenomena prevent a perfect from of determinism, but it's only a small victory because these fluctuations happen to be -outside- of our control. And that means we're just passengers. What will the fluctuations do next? Stay tuned and find out.

edit on 21-1-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

What you say is also merely assumption. it all is,but the materialist viewpoint is dying.

Originally posted by BBalazs

Originally posted by jonnywhite
reply to post by Maslo

 

I agree with you. The brain estimates, it doesn't KNOW.

The OP is just a wishcaster, like so many others. Everybody wants to deny death. To deny the suffering and loss in this world. They want to believe in an after-life. They want to believe in a supreme ruler. They want to believe in a greater meaning for all of this. They have to believe. They must. This is non-negotiable. I could sit here and talk with a wall and it's more productive than this. What one has to understand is that what's behind religion is behind a lot of other things. It's cognitive dissonance. Most people, if not all, cannot absorb the truth of this reality. We're all mortal. There's no after-life. Our local reality is deterministic. This is the classical world in physics. At the quantum level, there's more unpredictability and if free will could ever be said to exist it would exist at that scale not on the classical scale. People react violently to this idea in a very predictable way. To prevent the before-mentioned cognitive dissonance, they deny and create dramas and faiths and every imaginable excuse to escape the truth.

The good thing about determinism is that you don't know you don't have free will. The best case scenario is that quantum scale phenomena prevent a perfect from of determinism, but it's only a small victory because these fluctuations just happen to be outside of our control. And that means we're just along for the ride. What will the fluctuations do next? Stay tuned and find out.

edit on 21-1-2012 by jonnywhite because: (no reason given)

Cognitive dissonance:-) these people will enver get it. They have the faith virus.
However i dispute the fact that you mix up deterministic with predetermined.
They are not the same!

Be carelful, youre letting your dogma show;thats not good science!

reply to post by mandroids

What does hte evidence show us? Evidence shows us that millions (probably billions) of lifeforms are dying daily on earth. If you account for the bacterial and viral life then maybe trillions of trillions are dying daily. We can see evolution in history. Things change. We see the earth changing. We see things change. So we've developed theories about how this change happens and what it means for life. Death seems to be an integral part of this process of change. We've always examined these things and developed theories to explain em over time. This is a naturalist perspective, but it's also minimalist. Occam's Razor demands that the least assumptions are made about this. Logically, the simplest and most empirical explanation restricts itself to our material world until evidence shows otherwise. That's just how science works. Call it myopic, but don't call it irrational.

When we see a bug die, we don't have a funeral for it. We don't talk about an after-life for mice or chickens or sardines or wheat or apples or trees or the multitudes of life on earth. This is because we know deep inside in the back of our mind that life is temporal and death is permanent. You see, we know there's no after-life. This is a deep, private contradiction. Denial is what's seen on the surface of things. We give ourselves an after-life because it's one way to deal with the conflicting emotions we feel when we contemplate death. I gave some examples in my previous posts about other ways to cope, but there're too many to count (nature is always ahead of us). See my posts below...

These're my previous posts in this thread:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...
www.abovetopsecret.com...

(read the last one for some examples of how we cope)

What I'm saying is that if a man shoots a bullet and hits a brick, the easiest explanation involves science, not god or hocus pocus or black magic or demonic souls or karma or black cats. When someone dies, the easiest explanation is that they're gone. There's no after-life. We don't have evidence that shows life exists after it dies. Every indication, backed up by billions or trillions of trillions of deaths every day, is that death is part of evolution and the natural selection process and perhaps also a reflection of universal energy conservation laws. If you're going to give after-life to humans then you have to give an after-life to other lifeforms. Otherwise, you're carving yourself a convenient escape from logic. Humans represent only a tiny fraction of life. Don't be picky.

You have a wide selection of lifeforms to choose from. Is about time they get an after-life too. For too long lower lifeforms were seen as simple genetic robots with scarce memory or thought.

reply to post by jonnywhite


I second that.
You die, get over it.
Want to live forever?
Breed.

reply to post by BBalazs

I tell myself this is just another way to cope with the reality of death, but sometimes I wonder if our science odyssey to understand this universe might show us that we all share more things in common than those things that make each person different. If it turns out that we're all quite alike in behavior and appearance and thought and so on then the pain of death isn't so severe. Knowing the truth doesn't always have to mean the pain is deeper. Ignorance is bliss until it kills you...

Just imagine if when you died there were clones of you on earth. Would that help you to leave without regrets or attachments to this life? Obviously, there're no clones of us when we die. But what if we're indeed more alike than dissimilar? That's the next best thing to living forever. But on the other hand, what if we're dissimilar? What if each person truly is unique and lost forever when death takes them? Evolution will figure it out, ultimately. Those who fail will not pass on their genes.

Another 'coping mechanism' is a way to view the past but without changing the past. If we could view the past with precision then every persons life could be recorded. By not being able to change the past this might allow us to evade nature's unbreakable laws. Of course, this is pure speculation.

reply to post by jonnywhite


We are all the same genetically.
Yet traits are based down the gene line.
In you genes, eternal life.
Connected by seeds through time.
Thats why i feel reproducing is a kind of immortality.
It is your seed that blossoms, like a flowers, ad infinitum (or end).
Death is a biological neccessity, but it is not the end if you breed.

I fear death too, btw. I'm no exception to anybody on the board.

I include myself in my critique of this.

Evolution is a trail of spilled blood. Natural selection is a pitiless mechanism.

In our human world of emotions, it's hard for us to grasp what these things mean.

That's probably part of why there's so much confusion. Our emotions are not boundless.

reply to post by jonnywhite


Well personaly, i don fear death.
Although if given a choice, i would like to live forever, alas there is no so choice, but in the fantasy of your mind.
I accept death.
It is kali, the great cleaner, purger and annilator.
There can really be no life without death.
Fear it not.
For it will come for you wether you fear or not.
It cares not.


Our emotuons are boundless.
They are bounded only by your fears.
Let them go.

I always wondered about the afterlife, and honestly, i believe in a universal type, if any of you here read the book "My stroke of insight", you will see that this world is much more connected then we are aware. Or you might just think it is a good read...who knows.....

On the thread...hell lets give you a third

reply to post by mnemeth1


Lol more like "Credit to Michael Suede" for the article you just plagiarized.

www.libertariannews.org...

Mnemeth is Michael Suede... LMAO

Originally posted by r3axion
reply to post by mnemeth1

 

Lol more like "Credit to Michael Suede" for the article you just plagiarized.

www.libertariannews.org...

I own the blog and article is my mine.

See my sig?

I am Michael Suede, see the about section for my matching avatar.

reply to post by mnemeth1


Didn't see your sig, my apologies

Funny how most conspiracy theorist are also religious....
coincidence? I think not...

Originally posted by Maddogkull
Mnemeth is Michael Suede... LMAO

HAHAHAHAHA..KAAAAA BOOOOOOOOOOOM!

reply to post by Duceis


I would like to see something to back this claim up. I would argue the opposite to be true, that conspiracy theorists are relatively more often atheist.

Maybe it’s just that we are open-minded. Also consciousness, after death is completely different from religion.... One who cannot see that is blind with ignorance. What if the afterlife is merely a series of intertwined quantum crap with this universe to complete some kind of energy equilibrium? Who knows... Talking about an afterlife does not tie in with any dogmatic religion in any way.

reply to post by Maddogkull

weel i think this is what dali said about death: it can't be that bad, as no one has come back to complain about it.