Iranian women activist shot dead in Houston

I'm not convinced that this woman was killed by the Iranian government. I'm interested in knowing what her family's feelings on her conversion from Islam to Christianity were. Feelings depending, it is possible this was an honor killing. They do happen in America, we know this.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

I see no good coming from making unsubstantiated claims regarding this story, especially when the claims are for provoking more conflict.

The claims are no less substantiated than Iran's claim that the CIA is behind the murder of its scientists. Do you see any good coming from that? Would you not agree that they also are provoking conflict?

You're telling me that claims that Iranian secret services killing a woman in the US, are "no less substantiated" than the CIA and Mossad assassinating Iranian nuclear scientists? Are you serious?

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

You're telling me that claims that Iranian secret services killing a woman in the US, are "no less substantiated" than the CIA and Mossad assassinating Iranian nuclear scientists? Are you serious?

Absolutely. Press TV claims that suspects have been apprehended. Who are they? Where are they? They have yet to provide any names or pictures, much less any evidence that these phantom suspects are in any way associated with CIA. Meanwhile, the American press has been very careful not to claim that the murder of this Iranian activist was ordered by Tehran. There will be no such official allegation until there is proof.

I was just about to post the same thing.
When the Iranian scientist was assassinated in Tehran, it didn't take much investigation from any of you to agree: "It was Israel!"

And now you are asking for evidence? Well, where was the evidence when the scientist assassination took place? Did you post mocking posts to whoever said "it is 100% MOSSAD"?
Apparently, it is not mandatory to post evidence when linking assassinations with the Mossad. "It's just them, we know it".

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

You're telling me that claims that Iranian secret services killing a woman in the US, are "no less substantiated" than the CIA and Mossad assassinating Iranian nuclear scientists? Are you serious?

Absolutely. Press TV claims that suspects have been apprehended. Who are they? Where are they? They have yet to provide any names or pictures, much less any evidence that these phantom suspects are in any way associated with CIA. Meanwhile, the American press has been very careful not to claim that the murder of this Iranian activist was ordered by Tehran. There will be no such official allegation until there is proof.

I have a question:

What the hell are you talking about?

Do you even realize that you are comparing an serious geopolitical incident in Iran that could easily provoke the next world war, with a murder in the US? There is no comparison. The woman died, there's absolutely no goddamn evidence to support your fearmongering claims, and trying to pull some "well Iran can make such and such claims so I can to" angle doesn't make you seem the least bit credible.

I can't believe that people are starring your posts.

And you want to know why Iran won't provide their evidence or give names? Because it's a freakin' geopolitical incident based in secret operations. It doesn't take rocket appliances to figure out that the CIA and mossad have been conducting terrorism in Iran for years without this specific evidence. Perhaps they may not want to share what they know, so that their intelligence forces could act to the best of their capability?

Again, that incident is so completely different from this woman dying that this whole argument is an embarrasment to her death. Wouldn't it be bloody ironic that some enstrange ex-boyfriend (or whoever) killed her and they get away because everyone is pointing their fingers at a great political target to blame?

Hope you enjoyed my last post on this subject. I will end it by saying that people die all the time, in many different ways. I've even had friends and family murdered before. I've had friends blow out their brains before. Why? Who the hell knows, that is their perogative. The point is that people die, so just accept it. Using someone's death for your political agenda is pathetic, especially when you don't know them personally and when you make unsubstantiated claims about how they died.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

Where is your evidence? A woman dies, she happens to be an activist for women's rights in Iran, and so you conclude that it must have been Iranian secret services that assassinated her in the US of all places?

Where was Iran's evidence that the US was behind the murders of their scientists at home? Presstv was quick to accuse the United States without presenting any of their evidence. It has been days now and they still haven't provided any. Why are some ATS members so eager to believe one set of accusations but demand rigorous proof for another? Might there be a double standard here?

Yeah, you definitely have a bias here buddy. The irony is that your signature states "just the facts", and you've presented nothing but assumption here along with a very biased opinion. I would delete your thread on the very clear grounds that you're spreading misinformation and sensationalizing a woman's murder. Not to mention the racism you are implying by accusing Iranian people of committing murder on US soil.

reply to post by yourignoranceisbliss

Yeah, you definitely have a bias here buddy. The irony is that your signature states "just the facts", and you've presented nothing but assumption here along with a very biased opinion. I would delete your thread on the very clear grounds that you're spreading misinformation and sensationalizing a woman's murder. Not to mention the racism you are implying by accusing Iranian people of committing murder on US soil.

So you advocate censorship when someone makes a statement that unsettles you? If you read my OP carefully, it does indeed state simple facts. The Iranian government massacred its own people in droves at the time of the Revolution. Marxist intellectuals, who were very active in Paris fighting SAVAK, were liquidated by the new regime. That is fact, I'm sorry if you refuse to accept it. As for my insinuation, it was stated as inference, not fact. It is disgusting watching all you fellow travelers doing mental gymnastics to avoid admitting the obvious: Iran has and does murder its own citizens when it suits their agenda. Incidentally, so does the CIA. At least I am prepared to admit that much; why can you not admit that Iran does the same? Does that not suit your own agenda? Or are you simply not allowed to admit it? Incidentally, claiming that an American may have committed a hate crime is itself racism.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

And you want to know why Iran won't provide their evidence or give names? Because it's a freakin' geopolitical incident based in secret operations. It doesn't take rocket appliances to figure out that the CIA and mossad have been conducting terrorism in Iran for years without this specific evidence. Perhaps they may not want to share what they know, so that their intelligence forces could act to the best of their capability?

Whereas if Iran murders a naturalized American on American soil, it would have no geopolitical repercussions. Nothing to see here, move along.... The difference between the way the affairs are being handled by the US and Iran, is that the US will not make accusations until it has extremely strong evidence. Iran can hurl accusations willy nilly because it knows its sympathizers will not require evidence, much less proof, because America's evil nature is a given to them.

Again, that incident is so completely different from this woman dying that this whole argument is an embarrasment to her death. Wouldn't it be bloody ironic that some enstrange ex-boyfriend (or whoever) killed her and they get away because everyone is pointing their fingers at a great political target to blame?

Of course. A woman isn't important; a dead woman even less so.

Hope you enjoyed my last post on this subject. I will end it by saying that people die all the time, in many different ways. I've even had friends and family murdered before. I've had friends blow out their brains before. Why? Who the hell knows, that is their perogative. The point is that people die, so just accept it. Using someone's death for your political agenda is pathetic, especially when you don't know them personally and when you make unsubstantiated claims about how they died.

I agree. Iran using its scientists' deaths, and making unsubstantiated claims to further their political agenda, is reprehensible.

Allow me to take the liberty and answer as if you're addressing that post to me. Reason? This is just too rich.

Originally posted by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi
Do you even realize that you are comparing an serious geopolitical incident in Iran that could easily provoke the next world war, with a murder in the US? There is no comparison. The woman died, there's absolutely no goddamn evidence to support your fearmongering claims, and trying to pull some "well Iran can make such and such claims so I can to" angle doesn't make you seem the least bit credible.

I'll have to remind you that my whole point is based upon the fact that once the nuclear scientist got killed in Tehran, everyone immediately rushed to the conclusion that it was the Mossad.

So, regarding the Iranian scientist's death, did anyone have any "goddamn evidence" to support his fear mongering claims? No.

And you want to know why Iran won't provide their evidence or give names? Because it's a freakin' geopolitical incident based in secret operations.

That's weird, considering they had absolutely no problem giving the names and pictures of the hikers who were caught as CIA operatives, or the drone they have managed to get down, or the CIA spy they are sentencing to death.

It doesn't take rocket appliances to figure out that the CIA and mossad have been conducting terrorism in Iran for years without this specific evidence. Perhaps they may not want to share what they know, so that their intelligence forces could act to the best of their capability?

I could just as easily claim that it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out Iran assassinates it's own citizens or ex-citizens in Iran and abroad, while not sharing what they know so their intelligence forces could act better. Simple, really.

Again, that incident is so completely different from this woman dying that this whole argument is an embarrasment to her death. Wouldn't it be bloody ironic that some enstrange ex-boyfriend (or whoever) killed her and they get away because everyone is pointing their fingers at a great political target to blame?

Yes, it's different, but no so much if you look at the patterns.

Iranian woman's death in the US -> No evidence as to who did it -> Iran used to kill it's own people abroad -> Saying it could be the work of Iran.

Now,

Iranian scientist dead in Iran -> No evidence as to who did it -> Israel used to assassinate people abroad -> Claiming it is 100% without even looking for evidence or proofs.

The point is that the same people who are solid with the opinion that it was Mossad that assassinated the Scientist in Tehran didn't have any evidence aswell. They only took into account that the Mossad sometimes assassinates people abroad, performed a simple 1+1 in their heads, and in their opinions it is now a fact that the Mossad did this.

Why can't I or anyone else perform the same thing with this case here? We sure can. I can speak for myself that I don't do it to show Iran assassinates it's own people abroad, I do it to show how stupid it is to claim you know who is behind something for sure without even looking for the evidence.

Hope you enjoyed my last post on this subject. I will end it by saying that people die all the time, in many different ways. I've even had friends and family murdered before. I've had friends blow out their brains before. Why? Who the hell knows, that is their perogative. The point is that people die, so just accept it. Using someone's death for your political agenda is pathetic, especially when you don't know them personally and when you make unsubstantiated claims about how they died.

Sure thing, so how exactly are you so sure the dead scientist wasn't involved in some crime war? Or a case of mistaken identity? Or for all we know, was a victim of a random magnet-bomb-to-your-car-hit by a nutcase? Or that this was a false flag to make it look like the Mossad did it? Hey, after all, one of the favorite terms around here is false flag, isn't it? Well, apparently not when it suits against your agenda - when it does, all of a sudden it's stupid, fairytale, conspiracy nut material, loony thinking, reality twisting etc.

When you add the word Israel before or after? It's completely fitting.

Sorry to drift offtopic here, just trying to make a point.

I'm sure this won't be your last post in this thread.

Originally posted by IsraeliGuy
Allow me to take the liberty and answer as if you're addressing that post to me. Reason? This is just too rich.

...

Sorry to drift offtopic here, just trying to make a point.

I'm sure this won't be your last post in this thread.

Your point being what, that you'll "take the liberty" to reply to my posts as if I was directing them at you (when you were not in the equation), so you can give me your opinion about how you disagree with my opinion?

And really, why did you jump in, just to recycle the same argument about how "incident A" could be speculative because some unrelated source seems speculative about the unrelated "incident B"?

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Your point being what, that you'll "take the liberty" to reply to my posts as if I was directing them at you (when you were not in the equation), so you can give me your opinion about how you disagree with my opinion?

This is a discussion board, everyone is welcome to respond to everyone else, whether a comment is directed towards them or not. Israraelguy seems to be the only one who has divined the purpose of this thread. I ask you, why is it that a thread with a headline like "CIA/MOSSAD murders Iranian" will get hundreds of responses, with most of the posts simply repeating the unsupported allegations of the OP, whereas a thread titled "Iranian woman shot dead in Houston" gets hardly any responses at all... even to dispute the OP? Do you have a theory to explain that?

Israelguy was also correct about that not being your final post. Think about that one as well.

Originally posted by DJW001
I ask you, why is it that a thread with a headline like "CIA/MOSSAD murders Iranian" will get hundreds of responses, with most of the posts simply repeating the unsupported allegations of the OP

Maybe because they aren't "unsupported allegations"? Because it's happened before? Because CIA supports terrorism in Iran? Because Mossad has assassinated people before? Because Israel also has threatened war and violence against Iran? Because there's nobody else who has those interests?

, whereas a thread titled "Iranian woman shot dead in Houston" gets hardly any responses at all... even to dispute the OP? Do you have a theory to explain that?

Probably because people get shot all the time. Without any evidence to support your claims, then they are just claims, and quite radical ones at that.

Israelguy was also correct about that not being your final post. Think about that one as well

Think about what, that some people will post just to provoke me? I know better than to let somebody push me around.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

Probably because people get shot all the time. Without any evidence to support your claims, then they are just claims, and quite radical ones at that.

Your own words. Why does the murder of an Iranian dissident require more evidence than the murder of an Iranian scientist? Your mind is so closed that you cannot see the obvious. The usual chorus of pro-Iranian members has been silent on this because they don't want to bump the thread!

When Press TV makes a claim, however outrageous, some folks add a post at regular intervals to make sure that the headline stays near the top of the "Recent Posts" page. Even people who log on here to follow the latest news about extraterrestrials, ghosts and talking dogs will see the headline. They may never be motivated to actually read the thread, but by dint of constant exposure to the headline, they start to absorb the message.

If you were truly as objective and dispassionate as you believe you are, you would be able to admit that the Iranian government is just as capable of political assassination as any other. You would also not allow yourself to be manipulated into being drawn back in to defend your indefensible position.

Originally posted by DJW001
When Press TV makes a claim, however outrageous

When PressTV reports claims made by other sources, including government officials, then how is PressTV to blame? They are a news network, and their job is to report news.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

When PressTV reports claims made by other sources, including government officials, then how is PressTV to blame? They are a news network, and their job is to report news

They are an organ of the Iranian government. Their job is to disseminate propaganda.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

When PressTV reports claims made by other sources, including government officials, then how is PressTV to blame? They are a news network, and their job is to report news

They are an organ of the Iranian government. Their job is to disseminate propaganda.

So we should trust nothing that comes out of Iran, because Iran is the enemy and they are all liars?

I don't know if you've noticed yet or not, but all Americans sources spew BS all the time. They do it to justfiy the American agenda. It is exponentially worse than the Iranian media because at least the Iranian media has regulation by the government; American media is run by the corporate elite who in turn run American politics, thus they manipulate the public into support their own corporate expansionism through aggressive foreign policy carried out in their favor. The efforts of American media, their lies and manipulation of the public, has allowed American "democracy" to support a crusade that has murdered hundreds of thousands of people.

So spare me about how you think the Iranian media is full of lies, because as far as I can see you have no better examples of fair and balanced news media.

Hell, don't you find it funny that one of the primary targets for US/coalition invasion is the enemy's news buildings? They deliberately attack the local news networks so "free" news can be brought to the "liberated" people.

reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

So spare me about how you think the Iranian media is full of lies, because as far as I can see you have no better examples of fair and balanced news media.

Then why isn't Press TV reporting on the most reprehensible thing that CIA agents are doing to Iran? Why don't they expose the way CIA assets are being used to facilitate the Afghan-Iran heroin trade?

IMO:

The possible reasons for this in order of likelihood:

1) It was a grudge, non country related.
2) Random mugging / murder
3) Current tensions with Iran cause many a redneck to get trigger happy
4) It was something to do with that kookey sha'ria law / honour killing nonsense.
5) The USG have assassinated this woman in the hopes that people believe it was the Iranians.
6) It was the Iranians.

reply to post by woogleuk

The possible reasons for this in order of likelihood:

1) It was a grudge, non country related.
2) Random mugging / murder
3) Current tensions with Iran cause many a redneck to get trigger happy
4) It was something to do with that kookey sha'ria law / honour killing nonsense.
5) The USG have assassinated this woman in the hopes that people believe it was the Iranian.
6) It was the Iranians.

Don't you mean:

1) It was an American.
2) It was an American.
3) It was an American.
4) It was an American Muslim.
5) It was the American government.
6) A meteorite caromed off a dustbin and accidentally hit her in the head.
7) She deliberately shot herself in the head and hid the weapon in order to frame Iran.
8) It just might possibly have been Iran, but if it was, I refuse to believe it.

Originally posted by DJW001
reply to post by Dimitri Dzengalshlevi

 

So spare me about how you think the Iranian media is full of lies, because as far as I can see you have no better examples of fair and balanced news media.

Then why isn't Press TV reporting on the most reprehensible thing that CIA agents are doing to Iran? Why don't they expose the way CIA assets are being used to facilitate the Afghan-Iran heroin trade?

Because the situation is complex. The US has Iran backed into a corner and they want Iran to make aggressive moves. If Iran starts making serious accusations about American activities against it, the US will deny it and American media will spin the Iranian accusations as a call to war.

Why do you think Iran has been saying that the multiple explosions at their military facilities were "accidents"? So far, saying so held off the war, as opposed to striking back which is what is wanted by the US in order to justify invasion.