Before the Big Bang.

I understand no one has this knowledge I ask for, I'm just curious as to any of your thoughts.
And I ask for the collective knowledge of the great ATS think tank to help me get my head around this.

Lets start with the theory of the "big bang"
link en.wikipedia.org...

The Big Bang theory is the prevailing cosmological model that explains the early development of the Universe.[1] According to the Big Bang theory, the Universe was once in an extremely hot and dense state which expanded rapidly. This rapid expansion caused the young Universe to cool and resulted in its present continuously expanding state.

ok, I just cant picture what this would have looked like was this "extremely hot and dense state" everything?
or was there/or is there more of these "extremely hot and dense state's" beyond our Universe.

According to the most recent measurements and observations, this original state existed approximately 13.7 billion years ago, which is considered the age of the Universe and the time the Big Bang occurred

This short clip from "Hubble deep field" describes images that is light from galaxies over 10 million years ago.
hubblesite.org...

I know that is a long way from 13.7 billion, but when/if we ever get tech that can view light that far out, would we see the big bang? would we see anything at all? or would we see whats beyond our Universe?

I appolagise if this comes across as a crazy random thread, I've had a few cold ones and got into some deep thinking while star gazing.

reply to post by dadfortruth1


One cannot see beyond our universe, that is like watching the big bang happen, you can't, there was no space for you to exist in until the bigbang created it, so in closing on would have to be inside the bigbang just to exist at all.

Well, I think technically the big bang can be 'seen' in the form of its fingerprint. Cool Big Bang Link but as for a true baby photo? Had time even began to take that photo though?

My head hurts, I need a sit down.

Sorry for publicizing my own thread but it's much easier to do that than find all the links again.. etc

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Has a few interesting photo's,quotes etc

reply to post by dadfortruth1


hey there is approved scientific documents stating that there were quote "many" universes before ours i couldn't be effd finding the source but you can google it, theres plenty of links. its got to do with the cosmic microwave background radiation....basically what they've done is "looked" further than what they've previously seen

reply to post by dadfortruth1


Explanation: S&F!

Here are some posts of mine that may help explain ...

Why is the universe not simply made up of a regular matrix of hydrogen atoms? (thread by 1littlewolf posted on 14-11-2011 @ 01:59 AM) [ATS]

All OL's posts to the ablove thread linked! [ATS]

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

Explanation: S&F!

The smallest 'known' scale is 1 dimension that is 1 plancks length long PLUS at least 1 extra plancks length due to UNCERTAINTY and it is this extra uncertainty that allows the cosmos to inflate [or appear to inflate as we never left the singularity and it is just folding in 10 other dimensions like a dynamic standing wave!]

We as observeres collapse our own wave function automatically and that act of collapsing carries MOMENTUM with it and that momentum [time] is generated by purely just observing since all states SELF ASSESS so as to maintain their INTEGRITY!

Personal Disclosure: I hope this helps!

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

Explanation: This following EXAMPLE [used only in a metaphorical sense] may explain why it [the big bang singularity] is neither an explosion or an implosion ... as its BOTH!

Personal Disclosure: I started with Paul Davies 1984 Superforce, ISBN 0-04-539006-1 book and I recommend the chapters where he details how the universe bootstrapped it self out of NOTHING! [ ie a null set which must of course observe itself ... collapsing its own infinite wave function = inflationary illusion (see image above) ]

Paul Davies Books (by penguin books ) [penguin.com.au]

Paul Davies [wiki]

edit on 14-11-2011 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to fix spelling and include more text for claity.

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by 1littlewolf

 

Explanation: Cheers! I myself didn't qualify from highschool and so I am NOT an expert at all!

Here is a picture I generated [poorly] in MSpaint to help explain a few things ...

Now please look at the single straight line ... that is an eigenstate and its minimum value [thanks to uncertainty] is ONE! ie = 1

It is IMPOSSIBLE to geta value less than 1 because uncertainty laws require at least 1 plancks length to be unkown and this means that the FABRIC of space-time IS that eigen state ...

Or simply the bit between 0 and 1 plancks length is always unknowable and we must have at least 1 planks lenght to measure [+ its own uncertainty] as you can not measure a NOTHING!

Therefor the MINIMUM value is ONE [ = 1 ].

Now look at the straight line again [deconstructive interferrence] and although it APPEARS to be flat energy wize it is actually a superposition state of 2 oppossing polar states which are present but not visible!

If you looked at the line only at that moment and afterwards it would APPEAR that 2 polar states would apear out of nowhere and nothing!

Personal Disclosure: The maths of the big bang is this simple...

0% NOT= 100%

... and its a simple logical inversion.

edit on 14-11-2011 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to fix spelling.

Personal Disclosure: Continued next post below ...

reply to post by OmegaLogos



Explanation: Continued from post above ...

New Universe Theory (thread by prolific posted on 17-3-2011 @ 06:25 PM , reply post by OmegaLogos posted on 17-3-2011 @ 06:42 PM) [ATS]

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by prolific

 

Explanation: S&F!

All states self assess [not ethical but definately doable] including but not limited to null sets.

The reason for this is one of INTEGRITY as a state that can't hold its 'own' properties ISN'T a set!

So the state PRIOR to the big bang singularity was a null set that observed its own and THEREFOR initiated self collapse of an infinitely probable wave function!

Here is why that happened ... as one of the only other rules was [1st rule all sets self assess] nature [all sets including null sets] abhores a vacuum and can do anything within the rules AT THAT instant...to fill it.

Now as this state [null set] was empty of any other universal rules [gravity didn't exist yet and neither did the laws of thermodymanics] it was able to get something [everything including all the current universal constants and laws] from nothing and this can be represented mathematically and logically.

Its this simple ....

0% != 100% = Infinity

Translation: Zero perecent [null set] NOT [!] equal [=] 100% = EVERTHING [include time and all other dimensional constraints etc]

And this is basically a simple INVERSION and we have devices that actually do this called DIODES!

As above ... so below!

Personal Disclosure: And you yourself INVERTED yourself out of nowhere when you 'cogito ergo sum'ed' [i.e thought that you were].

God is so powerfull it is self causal. and God and The Universe both share the 1st 4 prime attributes of each other.

The human mind can be blown from three things: (thread by sarra1833 posted on 7-1-2012 @ 03:41 AM , reply posted by OmegaLogos posted on 7-1-2012 @ 04:27 AM) [ATS]

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by sarra1833

 

Explanation: S&F!

Uhmmm?

3. What if the entire Universe just one day went "poof"? I mean gone. Absolutely nothing left. Not a solitary thing. No atoms, no nano anything, no dark matter, even the space between galaxies and stars is gone. Not a single solitary thing was there anymore. Would it be a forever infinite sized void? Forever divided by zero?

My brain still weeps over this. I can NOT imagine a forever void of nothing ever. Can you?

Yes! OL CAN imagine it and have done so before and so fear not as I am here to help guide you through that ok!

It is this simple ...

0] Nature abhores a vacuume [including a vacuum of laws ... ie the Nothing! ] and can construct anything to fill that lack.

1] All possible sets [aka Nature], including a null set [ie ..even before the big bang singularity existed ... the Nothing!], MUST observe themselves so as to maintain integrity of themselves otherwise the wouldn't be a SET!

2] All Observers AUTOMATICALLY invert their own wave function and collapse it to a reality! 0% (NOT!) = 100%

3] This means that a zero sum reality [ie the Nothing!] observes itself and finds itself in conflict with the 0th law and inverts itself from 0% to 100% and no energy to infinite energy thereby construction the big bang singularity, which by also carrying the momentum of creation [ie the directional arrow of time] and being everything and everywhere already and having nowhere else to go was forced to fold inwards and outwards of itself dymanically and it does this about 1 x 10^43 plancke seconds everysecond in about 11 total dimensions!

So the answer to whether it would be an infinite infinitesimallly non sized void forever the answer is generally NO as it automatically observes and recreates itself ...but also YES as specifically nobody can count a zero amount of time and so this goes completely unnoticed.

Hence the bare minimum in QM is the value of 1 which is called the Eigenstate. [wiki]

Personal Disclosure: I hope that helps!

Personal Disclosure: More info can be found Here! (by OmegaLogos) [ATS]

I hope that helps!

The Big Bang huh..

Humans are really stupid. There were some guys who just thought of something like the big bang and people started believing them. Sheep!!

We know something around 1% of our own oceans, we have land were no man has ever stepped on, we have travelled to the moon (if that) an yet we claim to know how this infinite looking big a$$ Universe was born??!!!

And even have theories about how hot or how cold it was back then??? Really? We claim to actually know how much energy was used for the big bang to happen, so the whole universe (which size we will never know) came to life.. And they go on and on and on, not even knowing how this tiny something --> . even got there in the first place for it to explode.

Can't help you with before the Big Bang, but in simple layman terms, I can lend a thought on the Universe before there was light, the hot dense state. The four forces of nature (strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetic and gravity), were combined into one super force, Wald.

Creation and annihilation of particles lasted nanoseconds and the universe was undergoing a rate of expansion many times the speed of light, known as the inflationary epoch. The universe at this point was an ionized plasma where matter and radiation were inseparable. Cutting through all the crap for the first 300 million years or so, when photons continued to be trapped within matter, the expansion allowed for light and matter to go there separate ways as radiation becomes less and less dense. Matter and radiation therefore were bonded no longer, it is here that the density of the universe expanded to the point where light can be perceived.

Thanks for every ones input so far
I need time to go through the information and make individual replys.

right now my head hurts even more, and I keep getting more questions than answers
A good sleep will hopefully help me.

yeah, I really need some sleep. I just went back out side and looked at the stars. my senses were alive, I could feel the breeze on my face, I could here the Crickets in the grass and I could feel the Earth on my bare feet, then the thought entered my head "what am I"
Does this ever happen to anyone else?

Here is a problem with the cosmic background radiation.

This radiation now is very weak. So this radiation has gone from being unimaginably strong to very weak in 13.72 billion years.

But what is this background radiation. It is light in the microwave wavelength.

So should the light that we see with our eyes and intruments that show us the most distant galaxies suffer the same fate? Shouldn't this light be as distorted and weak as the cosmic background radiation? Should this light have been scattered to the point that we pick it up everywhere like we pick up the cosmic background radiation?

I think so.

If this is a correct assumption, this indicates the source of the cosmic background radiation is NOT left over energy from the big bang or we could not detect (see) very distant galaxies.

Then what is it?

Consider this. What if the big bang being big is only an illusion caused by expanding space. Since space was created, in the beginning their was not much of it. But it was crammed full of matter. So the matter/space ratio was huge giving the illusion of a Big bang. A bang that filled the very small universe. Say a glass of water represents the universe then and a barrel of water indicates the universe now. Both are full and they both appear full from any point inside them.

Consider the idea that in the beginning space was expanding at a rate slower than it is today and has had a constant acceleration from the big bang until now. The cosmic background radiation is not the remnants of the big bang but detectable radiation from the expansion of space from a singularity in quantum space that is occurring at all points in space NOW. This radiation is the ooze that leaks from quantum space when the universe expands.

The origin of this space is from a dimension that is so small that humans cannot yet observe it. Only its effect on our world, expanding space, and the radiation leakage from the fabric of space that separates us from this dimension is detectable with current technology.

I propose that CERN will knock a hole in this fabric and discover this dimension and its 10e120 joules/cubic meter of vacuum energy that quantum theory predicts is there. Actually, I think CERN has already seen the energy. I think this is what caused the unexplainable spike of energy that was detected during the smashing of protons this past year. Now CERN has been shut down for one year. Why? To go back to the drawing board with a new theory where the big bang does not break the law of conservation of energy, ie something from nothing.

We will see that nothing really does contain everything.

reply to post by dadfortruth1


My understanding is that a physical Multiverse exists and contains gazillions of Bubbleverses. When two bubbleverses touch the energy released is massive.. easily enough to create a Big Bang Scenario.. the birth of a new 'Universe'.

But I'm not an elite scientists so what would I know

ps.. I saw and experienced this scenario during spiritual 'journeys'.

to lazy to type today... but heres my theory

its just too easy to click, than type a paragraph...

my apollogies...

please read my thread for your question..