Ah ha! Iran: Not about the Nukes, its about the Rods!

Originally posted by diddy1234
@Anok, so how close is porn to war in terms of making money ?

I thought porn was a huge money spinner as well.

Just shows how screwed up the world is when human nature devises ways to kill ourselves quicker but yet does not have a cure for diseases or cannot even eradicate famine !

There is enough food in the world for everyone.

No real profit in healing people is there?

People need to wake up and realise capitalism isn't the freedom you think it is. It is a minority group of people who use their private ownership to exploit labour, they control everything in order to maximize profit. Anything that doesn't make profit is low priority, and deliberately ignored or underfunded, even sabotaged.

Yes, we produce enough resources right now to feed everyone...

Whether today's global overcapacity is seen as cause or effect of the economic crisis, one thing is certain: it isn't easy to make a profit in a world awash with overproduction. Capitalism is born in conditions of scarcity and is unable to function outside of them. So it seems logical that the crisis creates a tendency to restore these conditions artificially. But how does this affect the chances of the global economy to find a way out of its present predicament?

Capitalism promotes materialism, strips us of our humanity, and creates artificial scarcity.

Artificial scarcity in a world of overproduction: an ecape that isn't

S&F, excellent thread.
I think this is definitely a legitimate theory, and it would explain alot of what's going on.
Everyone should be starring and flagging, get this on the front page people.

Originally posted by FoosM

Fuel or Fear?

We are so focused on OIL, but of course, nobody is planning on occupying IRAN. So it cant be that.

To occupy Iran, Iraq or even Afghanistan has never been as issue.

The United States has a history of overthrowing democratically elected leaders, because they are not "friendly". And in this case, it's about energy ... and in this case, about oil.

You have to consider a lot of issues, and in this case, the issue of industry. The price of oil, is crucial for industry ... Europe is buying oil at outrageous prices, and on top of it, the Governments of Europe are taxing the oil in such a degree that it is "strangling" Europe. The people of Europe, raised on watching "holocust" movies, don't have the intelectual capacity to see beyond the propaganda.

Oil in China, is cheaper than Europe. It's even cheaper than the US ... which gives China an advantage on the market, and that advantage isn't merely the cheap labour market. It also gives Europe a disadvantage, as it's oil prices are up in the skies.

Oil is the single most important entity on the planet, it is what we use today to create a lot of things. Burning it up, in cars, jets, or for electricity. Is a waste.

But not everyone wants a "equality" in the distribution channels, Because some nations want to produce, but their production needs "consumers". It's just like many of the "laws" that are made to protect you from harm, are really made to protect the industry from competition (by you, the consumer). As well as the continuous bombardment in the west about "China filtering information on the Internet". This makes YOU, the moron, feel as you are a good guy (because you want to), and that the other guy on the other side of the world, whome you don't see, or even understand. Looks like the bad guy ... while the reverse is true. The internet in the west, is reaching levels of "censorship" that even challenges China and Russia.

Look at the cash flow ...

Originally posted by lambros56
reply to post by nightbringr

 

Iran have signed the Arms treaty.
Israel haven`t.

If Iran has signed, why do they not let inspectors free reign of there research plants, limiting them to certain areas? Why did the IAEA release this in their report last year?

Originally posted in Wikipedia
In November 2011, the IAEA Board of Governors rebuked Iran following an IAEA report detailing how Iran had undertaken research and experiments geared to developing a nuclear weapons capability.[5] For the first time, the IAEA report outlines, in depth, the country’s detonator development, the multiple-point initiation of high explosives, and experiments involving nuclear payload integration into a missile delivery vehicle.[6] Iran rejected the details of the report and accused the IAEA of pro-Western bias[7] and threatened to reduce its cooperation with the IAEA.[8]

Originally posted by lambros56
Iran have allowed weapons inspectors in.
Israel haven`t.

Fair, but again, we all know Israel has nukes. I too wish Israel would be more transparent with their arsenal.

Originally posted by lambros56
Iran have never attacked another country in over 100 years.
Israel have.

Iran has attacked Israel and their own Arab brothers in Syria and Lebanon time and time again through their proxy, Hezbollah. They have blood on their hands as well. The way i see it, Israel does a LOT more defending than attacking, especially in its earlier days. And never once has it used a nuke, even when it looked on one occasion like Israel herself might fall.

Originally posted by lambros56
Iran don`t have nuclear weapons.
Israel have lots of nuclear weapons.

For now. When Iran tests a bomb in the coming year we will know otherwise.

Originally posted by lambros56
Which one of these countries poses the biggest threat to world peace ?

Iran. Its run by religious zealots who hang gays, chant "Death to (fill in your enemy of the week here)", beat, abuse and kill their own people when elections are contested, and fund terrorism.

China, Saudi Arabia agree to increase nuclear cooperation

Now we'll see political hypocracy at its worst/(best?).... or will they now also invade Saudi Arabia

www.examiner.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink">www.examiner.com... oreign-policy-in-washington-dc/china-saudi-arabia-agree-to-increase-nuclear-cooperation

Quote: The Wall Street Journal reported that the pact calls for China to aid Saudi Arabia in developing and maintaining nuclear power plants and research reactors and manufacturing and supplying nuclear fuel elements to the Gulf Kingdom.

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by FoosM

 

Lets put nuclear reactors all over africa...

See how long those children live with irradiated water and food. We all know how great nato nations are with keeping their reactors and waste sites safe. Im sure the nations without the infastructure to contain and store nuclear waste will do better.

Stupidity.

edit on 18-1-2012 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)

What exactly do you know about the infrastructure of Iran?

Does everyone realize that the US never had reactor facilities before making the bomb? The full scale sites were less than an 1/8 of what Iran has. It has been almost 70 years since then. REALLY? Why would Iran NOT have the capability now?

reply to post by FoosM


I totally didn't think about this. I remember the 50,000 centrifuges and I thought that was normal until you just told me about us only having 3,000. They are looking at getting into the nuclear energy business and in so doing get more technology and become a buyer and seller of nuclear technology and fuel. We are going to war in order to destroy the competition what a sham. And this war/attack won't be easy and it won't be quick, this is essentially a new war that should be avoided.

reply to post by UnderStation


Excellent Post!

btw, anyone recall who got Iran started in their nuclear program?
Hint...same country who overthrew their democratically elected leader and installed the puppet Shah.
The same country who sold arms & WMD to Saddam to fight Iran while they sold arms to Iran under the table.
The same country who overthrew Saddam, first claiming his nukes would spawn mushroom clouds around the world, then claimed he still had other WMD, that they sold them.
Same country that wants to start bombing Iran as we speak.

The nuclear program of Iran was launched in the 1950s with the help of the United States as part of the Atoms for Peace program. The support, encouragement and participation of the United States and Western European governments in Iran's nuclear program continued until the 1979 Iranian Revolution that toppled the Shah of Iran. Nuclear program of Iran

According to Sibel Edmonds, it was the Bush administration that SOLD nuclear secrets to A Q Khan. She was translating Turkish security messages at the time. She dropped this bombshell on the FBI and they told her to shut up. She also found out Dennis Hastert was working for Turkey (he now works as a consultant for Turkey -- what a coincidence!) -- they didn't care. She turned Whisleblower and kind of ruined her own life in the effort.

Khan then distributed these Nuke secrets to Iran, Pakistan (his country) and North Korea.

>> So the whole "axis of evil" speech was just for show. During this same time, the Bush administration was also selling Iran parts for their F-14s. NOTHING gets in the way of commerce!

Originally posted by ANOK

No real profit in healing people is there?

You are just as blinded by socialism, as any religious fanatic is blinded by their faith. Your socialism, is just faith ... but a news flash for you, there is no capitalism.

Capitalism, as you are referring to ... is what gave us, the modern world we live in. The technology, the infrastructure, the health care, etc.

Socialism, is Nazi Germany ... it's Zionism ... it's the European Union, it's the United States. Throw in a good portion of the Soviet Union, and small dosages of China, and you'll get a good socialistic coctail.

And to everyones content, the entire western world is slipping into socialism. And as Karl Marx himself, pointed out ... socialism, is just a phase to communism.

The point is, you are sticking to semantics ... but reality is, that it is mankind, that is the problem. Not the -isms of the world. Whatever -ism you create, it will always be man who is in control. And he will always strive to profit ... to profit, is an instinctual behaviour in man, where he needs to collect food and save for the rainy days, for the winter, for the draught, etc.

What is wrong, is that the US with Israel and others at the helm, have created a world. Where it is the norm to crucify individuals, for the benefit of the many. It wasn't just Adolf Hitler that caused the horrors of WWII, it was EVERYONE who participated. And he would never have accomplished it, without the help of the people ... but the US gives the "people" an escape. Kill him, and we'll not kill you ... or as in Iraq, we'll give you a million dollars a head. "Wanted Dead or Alive". Posters from Wild Wild West, create by people who have seen to many western movies, and whose brains, literally are retarded. But IT DOES NOT represent capitalism, it refers to psychological warfare in using the greed of man against him.

This is your problem, greed is normal ... people need to eat, sleep and they need to have something more in their lives, then a mere blanket to sleep on. Denying people this, is not a positive issue, but a negative one. That the high priest, lives by example of poverty along with the people, is only a temporary solution. Because this instinct, is not a conscious thought, but a repressed instinct that is always, daily, minutely, fighting to escape. The fear of hunger, the fear of want. People sell out their own family, for their own profit. And when you say the word profit, in the meaning as a bad omen ... you are wrong, because profit, is merely the means to survive without want.

"God provides for you". Is something you say to your children, but every man will grow up and some men will grow up faster, and they neither want you to provide for them, nor do they need you to. They are fully capable of fending for themselves.

And finally ...

Capitalism, is the word used, to represent the act of two or several people coming together with their money. For the purpose of creating a fond, to use for collective business ventures.

And without that ... you can't survive. And the failure in identifying this, is ignorance.

No matter how you cut it another horrible case of the self righteous religeous cause to blind us at first with the so called fear of the Zionist Israeli versus Iran over nuking each other in a ww3 situation, and then it was about US Marines pissing on some guy, and then it was about capturing a Marine Corps Spy, and then it was about Scientists, and oil prices getting murdered in the streets. And now it is about selling nuclear material to everyone? The most absurd part is that people actually buy that sheeet when we all know water is the most abundant source on the planet and with it comes hydrogen that will help solve alot of the worlds energy problems even in the third world.(ask Herman Anderson)

My point is here no matter how you cut it they are selling fear and so are we

Expect the unexpected this is a known unknown type of situation

reply to post by FoosM


you might be right and u might be wrong, however u said there's no proof of Iran planning an attack on neighbor country, thats where u are wrong, you don't need more evidence / proof other than irans president saying he will wipe israel off the map...

As an Iranian, i wouldn't want to give more power to a country that is all about killing its own people and drowning other peoples voices and opinions other than the mullahs...

reply to post by FoosM


I am happy to see there is some mind working here on ATS.

I have said it before , but , it's not going to hurt :

Iran doesn't need to have nukes , Iran is just demanding to use alternative ways to produce electricity. Iran is going to sell less oil to other countries , US is just mad about this.

US has virgin oil and gas sources , and has already decided to keep them for the energy crisis. Iran is just going to pump less oil and gas out of the earth.

US govt is just mad about this and is just trying everything to legitimate invading Iran. Other broken Europe countries are mad , too. they like to continue their neo-colonialism.

So , they are just on the same side against Iran. But Russia is concerned about US presence near itself and is a big oil exporter itself. So it's not going to let US take over Iran.

Israel is just US representative in the region . maybe US is Israel representative in America. So , they have many common interests + Israel ( without any border ) doesn't like another rival powerful country in the region , specially an Islamic one.

In my thread here , I posted a Iran's nuclear timeline to say that Iran has been cooperating with all concerned sides , but those concerned sides are just saying " Stop Uranium enrichment ". It is because they know :

Uranium enrichment ==> using alternative way to produce electricity ==> getting less oil pumped out of the wells + More electricity for industry ==> Iran gets less dependent to oil ==> reduce selling oil ==> neo-colonialism will end ==> other Middle Eastern countries will learn ==> there won't be any neo-colonialism at all.

And I see that US is so obsessed with the furious five.

reply to post by bjarneorn


I'm not going to argue with you because this is off topic and I never mentioned socialism, but just to let you know capitalism is the, 'private ownership of the means of production', and is exploitative because workers have to produce more than they are paid for. Socialism is not free government handouts, and capitalism is not free-markets.

If you can't see that you are the one blinded by propaganda, a whole lifetimes worth including your school, probably your parents, the MSM.

If you do some real research into history you can not fail to see the way capitalism works, and has always worked before they started calling it 'free-market' and claiming it was freedom. It is freedom for the owners only, not the workers which is the majority. The few exploiting the many is not a good system no matter what you do to make it look nice. Crap covered in talcum powder is still crap.

Who is more likely to be blinded? Someone who has studied working class social history, or someone who just accepts what they're told by the state?

My whole point was capitalism is why we have nukes in the first place, it's why we have war in the first place, it's why we have 'authority' in the first place, it's why we have war, poverty, property crime, overcrowded prisons, I could go on...

There is no profit in healing people is a true statement. The goal of capitalism is to make profit, above anything else, it is not in the best interest of capitalists to reduce their market base. The problem with our economy is profit-making by exploiting labour. We could be making profit for ourselves, instead of someone else. Then we might be able to, as a society, have for example free-health care. But having said that I don't want to confuse you, socialism is not about free-health care per se, it is about putting the means of production into the hands of those who do the producing, the labour. The private owner is simply an unnecessary expense for society as a whole. It concentrates the wealth we all help to create into fewer and fewer hands. The rich poor divide gets ever wider.

Wow never thought about it like that. Interesting perception/find. Keep up the good work. I will read more into it later and leave a post in more depth of my beliefs.

Originally posted by tmpxvx
reply to post by FoosM

 

you might be right and u might be wrong, however u said there's no proof of Iran planning an attack on neighbor country, thats where u are wrong, you don't need more evidence / proof other than irans president saying he will wipe israel off the map...

As an Iranian, i wouldn't want to give more power to a country that is all about killing its own people and drowning other peoples voices and opinions other than the mullahs...

If you are Iranian. You'll understand the translation of the Iranian presidents speech because he never said that at all.

Well said. I have never looked at it from that point of view, but it makes a great deal of sense to me... The world really does revolve around money I suppose

Originally posted by bjarneorn

Originally posted by FoosM

Fuel or Fear?

We are so focused on OIL, but of course, nobody is planning on occupying IRAN. So it cant be that.

To occupy Iran, Iraq or even Afghanistan has never been as issue.

The United States has a history of overthrowing democratically elected leaders, because they are not "friendly". And in this case, it's about energy ... and in this case, about oil...

Did you just refer to the Taliban and Saddam as "democratically elected leaders"?