Begin Sex Ed in Kindergarten, Says New ‘National Standards’ Report

reply to post by Jiggyfly


I agree completely. I just don't understand how people keep continuing to confuse the two.
In all of my years, with my younger sister and her friends, I have never heard of them ever teaching kids how to have sex in their sex ed classes.

It seems to me, a majority of those that are against this preposition haven't even read the article. The just assume that sex ed = teaching kids how to have sex when it's the complete opposite.

This entire debate completely baffles me that people can be that dense with this subject, and how many people don't actually read articles and decide what's the truth by themselves. They just follow everyone else, especially the OP, and think they'll be teaching 4 year olds how to have sex.

Originally posted by AnIntellectualRedneck
I took a look at those standards, and the main thing that I really have problem with is that they routinely emphasize going to authority figures if they're being bullied or are having problems. They keep encouraging, all the way up, going to authority instead of trying to solve the problems themselves.

This is an interesting point.

There absolutely is a good deal of bullying education, and the prescription is always to report to an authority figure. I know from experience that this type of action, particularly when dealing with the schoolyard bully/lunch money stealer, rarely helps. It might get your lunch money back that day, but watch your back on the bus ride home. More than once, I've had a student where I secretly hoped he would just flip out, wreck the kid who was picking on him, and take the one day in school suspension. That's probably a weakness in my philosophy, but I'll admit it.

My issue with your point comes when kids are being bullied by adults. An adult has implicit authority to most kids. Granted, this is much less than in the past, but it's still there. They also can't flip out and wreck the adult.

I think school responses to bullying and the teaching methods involved are weak. Obviously, telling on the bully is not always the right response, and other responses can't be advocated for legal reasons. In cases like this though, where the bullying is verbal or sexual in nature, and sometimes comes from an adult, we probably don't want the kid defaulting to "oh, it's go time."

I don't have an answer, and I share your concern. I just don't know if there's any other way.

The failures of past and current "nationalized" programs are part of the problem.

No Child Left behind is one example.

Ten years have passed since then president George W. Bush signed No Child Left Behind (NCLB), making it the educational law of the land. A review of a decade of evidence demonstrates that NCLB has failed badly both in terms of its own goals and more broadly. It has neither significantly increased academic performance nor significantly reduced achievement gaps, even as measured by standardized exams.

In fact, because of its misguided reliance on one-size-fits-all testing, labeling and sanctioning schools, it has undermined many education reform efforts. Many schools, particularly those serving low-income students, have become little more than test-preparation programs.

A decade of No Child Left Behind: Lessons from a policy failure

Big money to failed programs from the top down

Thanks but NO Thanks

The federal accountability system, made universal through the No Child Left Behind Act of 2002, is a system driven by quotas and sanctions, stipulating the progression of underperforming schools through sanctions based on meeting performance quotas for specific demographic groups. The authors examine whether the current federal accountability system is likely to succeed or fail, by asking, Does the sanctions-driven accountability system work? Is it practical? And is it legitimate among those who must implement it? The authors argue that even though sanctions-driven accountability may fail on practical outcomes, it may be retained for its secondary benefits and because there is a sense that credible policy alternatives are lacking. They conclude by proposing alternative policies and approaches to the current system.

Predictable Failure of Federal Sanctions-Driven Accountability for School Improvement—And Why We May Retain It Anyway


The sex-ed programs are run by the very same pseudo intellectuals and pseudo administrators

Thanks But NO Thanks !

The Majority of Americans Do Not Have a Problem !

Crimes and Rapes are mostly mental illness and drug related.

It has nothing to do with school system level sex-ed.

Or does it ?

Stats ?

Please, no "studies" by grant paid organizations that are biased.

Parents Need the Final Decision

Not Strangers

reply to post by xuenchen


NCLB sucked. It truly did, and that's partly why you're seeing states exercise the new autonomy they've been given to simply ignore it. However, you make a pretty bold claim when you say most people don't have a problem.

www.teenhelp.com...

A few of the statistics really stand out.

Nearly four in ten teenage girls who had intercourse at 13 or 14 said the sex was involuntary or unwanted

The US spends 7 billion a year on the cost of teen pregnancy

Daughters of teen mothers are 22% more likely to become teen mothers, and sons of teen mothers are 13% more likely to go to prison.

We should, if we're being honest about things, feel as if these are everyone's problem. If not for the moral reason of "we should do as well by our kids as we possibly can" then at least for the economic cost that comes out of our taxes.

You say most people don't have a problem. I say EVERYONE has these problems. Until we own them and address them, we will continue to lag well behind the rest of the world in doing well by our children in this area.

reply to post by Jiggyfly


Then it really looks like the programs have failed.

The report forgot to cite how many teen pregnancies were/are drug or mental illness related.
(unless I missed it)

Most Americans Have No Problem !

There are 320,000,000 people in America

Originally posted by xuenchen
Crimes and Rapes are mostly mental illness and drug related.

It has nothing to do with school system level sex-ed.

Or does it ?

Stats ?

Please, no "studies" by grant paid organizations that are biased.

Parents Need the Final Decision

Not Strangers

Give me your statistics on rape being based completely on mental-illness.
Please, I would REALLY like to see YOUR source for this information.
And it's funny that you ask for no "studies by grant paid organizations that are biased." Seems to me that your bias against educating children at an earlier age is clouding your view and not allowing you to think clearly.

Sorry to burst your bubble here, pal, but not everything is a conspiracy.

If you look at the statistics of how many young teens experiment with recreational drugs with all of the drug education programmes that have been taught in schools in the last decade, then you have to ask yourself the question.....Is education about sex and drugs falling on deaf ears and is it even a solution to the problem?
Yeah the kids will go to Sex Education class and probably enjoy it as a diversion from subjects they hate like Maths and other heavy duty subjects.
But as soon as they are let out of the gate at the end of the day, take off their school uniforms and hang with their friends all of it flies out of the window and nature seems to take its course.
That must be what's happening or why else would the amount of teen pregnancies be going up with all the sex education that has been taught over the last 15 years?

I don't think Education on Sex should be taught in a school setting or they will go the same road as the usefullness of all the other subjects that are pushed to the back of the mind as soon as the school bell rings at the end of the day and are conveniently forgotten about.

Kids have to see Sex as part of life and in the setting of life and that is at home with family and relatives and friends rather than in an institutionalised unnatural setting like School.
Guess what Im saying is that even if kids parents aren't forthcoming with too much education on sex there's always an Aunt Unlce, older sister or brother or family friend who they'll find out from to satisfy their curiosity.

Not too many kids are that close to their teachers enough to feel comfortable to talk or discuss such personal topics IMO. Not too many that I know anyway.

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by Jiggyfly

 

Then it really looks like the programs have failed.

The report forgot to cite how many teen pregnancies were/are drug or mental illness related.
(unless I missed it)

Most Americans Have No Problem !

There are 320,000,000 people in America

Um, the idea behind the standards is that something needs to be changed. No one is arguing that currently, things aren't going well. That's kind of the point.

Your solution is to leave it with the parents. I would argue that the amount of sex ed in schools is sufficiently minimal (usually covered over the course of a few days in K-5, and a one semester class in 8th grade that spends more time on nutrition and healthy living than anything reproductive based) that the onus is sufficiently on the parents currently. Under this model, things have become steadily worse.

You assert two things. One, it currently is not being left to the parents. I say that it largely is, and that is a contributing factor to our issues. Two, that to eliminate the minimal support that schools currently give in this area would serve to improve conditions. I say that this would increase in problem dramatically, as evidence by statistics in abstinence only sex ed schools, which in reality, simply don't teach as much about the issue since they don't have to do so.

I won't bother getting you stats on that though, since most research is grant funded and you've voiced an issue with that.

Originally posted by xuenchen
In your opinion,

were you a "one of a kind kind" in that regard ?

Or were the majority in the same boat school-wide.

Well my area is typically dual income and not overly religious so it was pretty typical.

Originally posted by xuenchen
reply to post by Jiggyfly

 

Then it really looks like the programs have failed.

The report forgot to cite how many teen pregnancies were/are drug or mental illness related.
(unless I missed it)

Most Americans Have No Problem !

There are 320,000,000 people in America

Sorry, but it seems to me that most Americans /do/ have a problem with teen pregnancy.

In 2009, a total of 409,840 infants were born to 15−19 year olds, for a live birth rate of 39.1 per 1,000 women in this age group. Nearly two-thirds of births to women younger than age 18 and more than half of those among 18−19 year olds are unintended.

Considering, and I quote:

Teen pregnancy accounts for more than $9 billion per year in costs to U.S. taxpayers for increased health care and foster care, increased incarceration rates among children of teen parents, and lost tax revenue because of lower educational attainment and income among teen mothers.

Seems to me, and every other tax payer in the USA, this is a problem for most Americans.

Pregnancy and birth are significant contributors to high school drop out rates among girls. Only about 50% of teen mothers receive a high school diploma by age 22, versus nearly 90% of women who had not given birth during adolescence.5
The children of teenage mothers are more likely to have lower school achievement and drop out of high school, have more health problems, be incarcerated at some time during adolescence, give birth as a teenager, and face unemployment as a young adult.

This is just teen pregnancy due to lack of knowledge of safe sex.
Here's my Source if you want to read it for yourself.

reply to post by xuenchen


Your argument is pretty similar to "nah dude, it was aliens."

It doesn't matter how many are drug or mental illness related, since you cannot possibly make the claim that sex ed wouldn't aid in the early identification or mitigation of these issues, regardless of causality. I don't see why you think that's even remotely relevant to my assertion. I think you want to parrot the notion that all these problems are out of our control, so we should just ignore them. As was already covered, you can't back that up other than to say "I feel it in my gut."

Tell me how instructing young children that they can say no to sexual advances would NOT reduce the number of unwanted sexual incidents in the US, even if drugs and mental illness are part of the mix? It's pretty logical to think that it would, so you'll have to come up with something a little more compelling than you currently have to contradict that statement.

sex ed in kindergarten?
too early i say. womb and preggie sex for all!

reply to post by Jiggyfly


Furthermore, unless you think drug use and mental illness is a local, US only problem, most of the industrialized world has more extensive sex ed requirements than we do, and their numbers are much better across the board. This is both in school achievement and in teen sexual statistics, which may or may not be related.

So, if drug use and mental illness are global, the logical assumption would be that more extensive programs do, in fact, help to manage these problems....in spite of the cause.

I haven't had a chance to read through the whole thread, but I read the article and first couple of pages.

This is not something that should be decided by the state or federal governments.

Parents need to be their children's first and foremost teachers. This topic, in particular, needs to be addressed by parents at that age, NOT school officials.

I, as a parent of three young children, do not want other people, who will undoubtedly flavor the "education" with their own experiences, teaching my children about sexuality.

My children have already asked "where babies come from", and I have given them factual answers to their questions, though have not gone into explicit details about the actual "how".

They have asked about different types of relationships, and I have given them factual answers to their questions.

They have asked about different types of families, and I have given them factual answers to their questions.

I have taught them appropriate behavior in and out of the home. I have taught them never to allow people into their personal space without permission. I have taught them never to trust strangers. I have taught them that they must tell one of their parents or a teacher if anyone does something to hurt them, in any way.

And, really, at that age, it has nothing to do with "sex" - it's about science and facts. Children are naturally curious about their world, and want to know how everything fits together. They do not need to be taught all of the gory details, just because it's currently "politically correct" to do so.



ETA: My "parents" gave me absolutely no practical education about anything. I had to, seriously, tell my mother to take me to the store so I could purchase my first bra. I learned everything about puberty and sexual reproduction by reading books. I, at ages 12-15, had to give puberty and "sex talks" to my younger siblings.

I definitely know a thing or two about irresponsible parents. I choose not to be this way.

I see the value in having some education, specifically about bullying and the like, about people's differences. However, I still feel the actual details are my responsibility.

Originally posted by Believer101

Originally posted by romanmel
I have a GREAT idea!

Instead of teaching little Bobby and Jill about how to have wild passionate sex with each other, why not teach them how to balance a checkbook, write a complete sentence or that France is a country.

In case you hadn't noticed, Americans are as dumb as a box of rocks..

I'm not sure how many times I have to quote this, but I'll keep doing it until people like you understand what they're REALLY doing:

Recommendations for students by the time they reach age seven include that they "Use proper names for body parts, including male and female anatomy” and “[p]rovide examples of how friends, family, media, society and culture influence ways in which boys and girls think they should act.”

Starting in the third grade, and upon completion of the fifth – when most children are 10 years old – students should be able to “[d]efine sexual orientation as the romantic attraction of an individual to someone of the same gender or a different gender” and “Identify parents or other trusted adults of whom students can ask questions about sexual orientation.”

By completion of the eighth grade, the report says, students should be able to “[d]ifferentiate between gender identity, gender expression and sexual orientation,” “[e]xplain the range of gender roles,” and “[d]efine emergency contraception and its use.”

I ask you, where in all of what I just quoted does is say they are going to actually talk about sex to anyone younger than 8th graders (13 - 14)? Even to the 8th graders it's only about emergency contraception.
In YOUR sex ed class, did they teach anything about how to have "wild, passionate sex" with someone else? In mine, they taught us anatomy, safe sex precautions, and we had to watch a god awfully boring film about the growth of a human child in the womb.

OK

Now please tell me what the time line is on oh say balancing a check book or learning how to put together and understandable sentence?

Bottom line is this...Dogs know how to have sex and no one gave them sex ed. Schools are FAILING in ALL the basics needed to survive in life like reading, writing and math. Many HS grads today can barely talk in an understandable manner and some dweebs are concerned with crotch related matters?

Originally posted by zachi
No wonder they talk about sex and are curious about it when it is taught rather graphically each year. The kids have to fill out a booklet for a grade and after being checked, its passed back and they are supposed to keep it.
Many of the kids don't want to be in the class, but when they ask parents to have them excused, the parents think they should attend the lessons. Seems backward to me.

do you actually believe that sex education is what CAUSES a human being to be curious about sex?
granted we would all love other subjects in school to spark uncontrolled self exploring interest in a student, but puberty is a natural thing. the education HAS to come before puberty begins.

when very young kids touch or peek or snicker about pictures they see, pre-puberty age they are still very innocent to it all. i suppose there isnt much to be concerned about, sure you can educate them in time.

but 6th-7th graders being educated is far to late. they already know it all by then and the only thing left to teach either by schools or by parents is the scare tactics; ruining all context of the true education process.

reply to post by romanmel


If you get knocked up and drop out, you don't get to consumer ed in your junior year. You don't take calculus, you don't go to college. Maybe someday you get your GED. If you knock someone up, maybe you finish high school, and if you're wealthy, you go to the local university and your parents watch the kid. If not, you get a job. Or maybe you don't keep the kid, and the guilt crushes you.

"Crotch related matters" are relevant to the overall educational quality of our system. If you don't believe me, look at the school systems that crush ours, and look at their sex ed requirements. They're typically more strict.

Please tell me how writing is a vital life skill while learning to avoid unwanted pregnancy and STD's isn't?

Originally posted by Jiggyfly
reply to post by romanmel

 

If you get knocked up and drop out, you don't get to consumer ed in your junior year. You don't take calculus, you don't go to college. Maybe someday you get your GED. If you knock someone up, maybe you finish high school, and if you're wealthy, you go to the local university and your parents watch the kid. If not, you get a job. Or maybe you don't keep the kid, and the guilt crushes you.

"Crotch related matters" are relevant to the overall educational quality of our system. If you don't believe me, look at the school systems that crush ours, and look at their sex ed requirements. They're typically more strict.

Please tell me how writing is a vital life skill while learning to avoid unwanted pregnancy and STD's isn't?

edit on 19-1-2012 by Jiggyfly because: addition

Sorry, I'm not seeing the "..overall educational quality of our system" you are speaking of.

We have high school grads who come to our offices to apply for a job and they have to have a friend to come along with them to read and help answer the standard questions on an employment application, but yeah, they know how to scratch their crotch. These HS grads are illiterate!

Educational Quality?

HaHA. Emergency contraception. I can see it now. Two kids show up to the school nurse. Umm. We bumped into each other in the hall by accident, and umm well, while we were picking up our books we accidently had sex. Do you have any emergency contraception. lol